Buttigieg vs. Beto O'Rourke: "I Don't Need Lessons From You On Courage, Political Or Personal" | Video | RealClearPolitics

Buttigieg vs. Beto O'Rourke: "I Don't Need Lessons From You On Courage, Political Or Personal"


Democratic presidential candidates Pete Buttigieg, mayor of South Bend, Indiana, and former Rep. Beto O'Rourke (D-TX) duked it out over gun control at Tuesday's presidential primary debate.

Buttigieg told O'Rourke not to give him lessons on courage, political or personal, and that his plan for gun control shows he does not know how to take weapons off the streets.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN MODERATOR:  We want to turn back to domestic issues and the epidemic of gun violence in this country.  We're less than 100 miles from Dayton, Ohio, where two months ago a gunman killed nine people using an AR-15-style weapon with a high-capacity magazine. 
Congressman O'Rourke, in the last debate, you said, quote, "Hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47," but when you were asked how you'd enforce a mandatory buyback, you said police wouldn't be going door to door.  So how exactly are you going to force people to give up their weapons?  You don't even know who has those weapons.
O'ROURKE:  Look, we're going to make sure that the priority is saving the lives of our fellow Americans.  I think almost everyone on this stage agrees that it's not right and as president would seek to ban the sale of AR-15s and AK-47s. 
Those are weapons of war.  They were designed to kill people effectively, efficiently on a battlefield.  You mentioned the massacre in Dayton.  Nine people killed in under 40 seconds.  In El Paso, Texas, 22 were killed in under three minutes.  And the list goes on throughout the country.  
So if the logic begins with those weapons being too dangerous to sell, then it must continue by acknowledging, with 16 million AR-15s and AK-47s out there, they are also too dangerous to own.  Every single one of them is a potential instrument of terror.  
Just ask Hispanics in Texas.  Univision surveyed them.  More than 80 percent feared that they would be a victim of a mass terror attack like the one in El Paso that was targeted at Mexican Americans and immigrants, inspired in part by this president's racism and hatred that he's directed at communities like mine in El Paso.  
COOPER:  Congressman...
O'ROURKE:  So I expect my fellow Americans to follow the law, the same way that we enforce any provision, any law that we have right now.
O'ROURKE:  We don't go door to door to do anything in this country to enforce the law.  I expect Republicans, Democrats, gun-owners, non-gun-owners alike to respect and follow the law. 
COOPER:  Congressman, let me follow up.  Just to follow up, your expectations aside, your website says you will fine people who don't give up their weapons.  That doesn't take those weapons off the street.  So to be clear, exactly how are you going to take away weapons from people who do not want to give them up and you don't know where they are? 
O'ROURKE:  If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war, or brings it out in public and brandishes it in an attempt to intimidate, as we saw when we were at Kent State recently, then that weapon will be taken from them.  If they persist, they will be other consequences from law enforcement.
But the expectation is that Americans will follow the law.  I believe in this country.  I believe in my fellow Americans.  I believe that they will do the right thing. 
COOPER:  Thank you.  Mayor Buttigieg, just yesterday, you referred to mandatory buybacks as confiscation and said that Congressman O'Rourke has been picking a fight to try to stay relevant.  Your response on guns?
BUTTIGIEG:  Look, Congressman, you just made it clear that you don't know how this is actually going to take weapons off the streets.  If you can develop the plan further, I think we can have a debate about it.  But we can't wait.  People are dying in the streets right now.  
We can't wait for universal background checks that we finally have a shot to actually get through.  We can't wait to ban the sale of new weapons and high-capacity magazines so we don't wind up with millions more of these things on the street.  We can't wait for red flag laws that are going to disarm domestic abusers and prevent suicides, which are not being talked about nearly enough as a huge part of the gun violence epidemic in this country.  We cannot wait for purity tests.  We have to just get something done. 
COOPER:  Congressman O'Rourke, your response.
O'ROURKE:  This is not a purity test.  This is a country that loses 40,000 of our fellow Americans every year to gun violence.  This is a crisis.  We've got to do something about it. 
And those challenges that you described are not mutually exclusive to the challenges that I'm describing.  I want to make sure we have universal background checks and red flag laws and that we end the sale of these weapons of war, but to use the analogy of health care, it would be as though we said, look, we're for primary care, but let's not talk about mental health care because that's a bridge too far.  People need that primary care now, so let's save that for another day.
No, let's decide what we are going to believe in, what we're going to achieve.  And then let's bring this country together in order to do that.  Listening to my fellow Americans, to those moms who demand action, to those students who march for our lives, who, in fact, came up with this extraordinary bold peace plan...
COOPER:  Thank you, Congressman.
O'ROURKE:  ... that calls for mandatory buybacks, let's follow their inspiration and lead and not be limited by the polls and the consultants and the focus groups.  Let's do what's right...
COOPER:  Mayor Buttigieg, your response?  Mayor Buttigieg?  
BUTTIGIEG:  The problem isn't the polls.  The problems is the policy.  And I don't need lessons from you on courage, political or personal.  Everyone on this stage is determined to get something done.  Everyone on this stage recognizes, or at least I thought we did, that the problem is not other Democrats who don't agree with your particular idea of how to handle this. 
The problem is the National Rifle Association and their enablers in Congress, and we should be united in taking the fight to them. 
O'ROURKE:  That's a mischaracterization.  Anderson, I've got to answer this.  Never took you or anyone else on who disagrees with me on this issue.  But when you, Mayor Buttigieg, described this policy as a shiny object, I don't care what that meant to me or my candidacy, but to those who have survived gun violence, those who've lost a loved one to an AR-15, an AK-47, marched for our lives, formed in the courage of students willing to stand up to the NRA and conventional politics and poll-tested politicians, that was a slap in the fact to every single one of those groups and every single survivor of a mass casualty assault with an AR-15 and an AK-47.
COOPER:  Thank you.
O'ROURKE:  We must buy them back.  
COOPER:  Congressman...
BUTTIGIEG:  What we owe to those survivors is to actually deliver a solution.  I'm glad you offered up that analogy to health care, because this is really important.  We are at the cusp of building a new American majority to actually do things that congressmen and senators have been talking about with almost no impact for my entire adult life. 
COOPER:  Thank you, Mayor.
BUTTIGIEG:  No, this is really important, OK?  On guns, we are this close to an assault weapons ban.  That would be huge.  And we're going to get wrapped around the axle in a debate over whether it's "hell, yes, we're going to take your guns"?  We have an opportunity...
COOPER:  Thank you, Mayor.  Your time is up.
BUTTIGIEG:  ... to deliver health care to everybody, and some on this stage are saying it doesn't count unless we obliterate...
COOPER:  I want to give somebody -- I want to give other -- I want to give other candidates a chance.

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