Giuliani vs. CNN's Cuomo: I Never Said There Was No Collusion Between People In Trump Campaign And Russia

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President Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani talks to CNN's Chris Cuomo about special counsel Robert Mueller's ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Giuliani said it would not be collusion if then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort shared Trump campaign polling data with Russians because "polling data is given to everybody."

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Mr. Mayor, false reporting is saying that nobody in the campaign had any contacts with Russia. False reporting is saying that there has been no suggestion of any kind of collusion between the campaign and any Russians. Because now you have Paul Manafort giving poll data that winds up leading to this coincidence --



RUDY GIULIANI: Well, you just misstated my position. I never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign --

CUOMO: Yes, you have.

GIULIANI: I have no idea -- I have not. I said the president of the United States. There is not a single bit of evidence the president of the United States committed the only crime you could commit here, conspired with the Russians to hack the DNC.

CUOMO: First of all, crime is not the bar of accountability for a president. It's about what you knew --

GIULIANI: Well, he didn't collude with Russia either!

CUOMO: -- what was right, and what was wrong, and what did you deceive about? Those are going to be major considerations.

GIULIANI: The president did not collude with the Russians.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He said nobody had any contact, tons of people had contact. Nobody colluded, the guy running his campaign --

GIULIANI: He didn’t say nobody --

CUOMO: -- was working on an issue at the same time as the convention.

GIULIANI: He said he didn't. He didn't say nobody. How would you know that nobody in your campaign --

CUOMO: He actually did say that, Rudy. He said, nobody, and then he said, as far as I know.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: Well, as far as he knows, it's true.

CUOMO: But I don't know that it's true.

GIULIANI: As far as the president knows and as far as I know --

CUOMO: How did Paul Manafort do all of these things and nobody else knew?

GIULIANI: He was only there for six months or four months.

CUOMO: He was there for the convention when they changed the platform.

GIULIANI: Yes, and he was busy --

CUOMO: He gave the polling data. Cambridge Analytica, you don't have the same questions about them as you do the dossier.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: And they ended up -- how about reporting this? And they ended up with a stronger platform on Ukraine than they started with at the time they were finished.

CUOMO: No, they didn’t.

GIULIANI: Yes, they did.

CUOMO: They wanted to put in there that we would give help with lethal weaponry and they changed it to soften it --

GIULIANI: Right, and they took it out and they put back in that they were going to give substantial help to Ukraine --

CUOMO: Right, but not the same.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: -- the Democratic platform, by the way.

CUOMO: It was softened. Who did it and why they did it, we don't know.

GIULIANI: And the president had no knowledge of that. I happen to know that --

CUOMO: He didn't know about his own party's platform?

GIULIANI: Chris, come on, you've been around politics. You know, candidates don't know a damned thing about the platform. They don't pay any attention to the platform.

CUOMO: I was raised by a guy who would have corrected the punctuation in the platform.

GIULIANI: Well, that maybe was different, but I have been a lot of presidents and a lot of presidential campaigns. And the platform, they pay no attention to. They care about their acceptance speech. That’s what they’re spending their time of.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Fine. Be that as it may, there are two coincidences to answer for. The first is, is Manafort is viable at the head of the campaign when that's going on. And then, he's viable at the head of the campaign giving polling data that winds up having the same faces and places targeted by the campaign that are targeted by Russian trolls. How is that no collusion?

GIULIANI: It's not collusion.

CUOMO: How is it not?

GIULIANI: Because polling data is given to everybody.

CUOMO: What?

GIULIANI: I mean, he shouldn't have given it to them. It’s wrong to give it to them.

CUOMO: So it's not given to everybody.

GIULIANI: And I can't speak for Paul Manafort. Of course it is!

First of all, the most inappropriate, the most inaccurate stuff is internal polling data. All of it is cooked --

CUOMO: They wound up coming to the same conclusions about whom to target and where. If you give people who are trying to interfere in an election information about where to target and whom, you don't see that as a collusion?

GIULIANI: Not with the president of the United States, not with Donald Trump, not with Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: As a minimum with his campaign, and the question becomes, what did the president know?

GIULIANI: He and I didn't know about that until --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I’m not saying you did, I’m asking about the president.

GIULIANI: He did not know about it until it was revealed a few weeks ago in an article. I still haven't seen the testimony, I’ve seen the article, which is based on leaks. So, I don't know what was actually said, what was actually done.

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