Rep. Goodlatte threatens to subpoena Rod Rosenstein; House Judiciary Committee member Rep. Jim Jordan weighs in on 'Sunday Morning Futures' with FNC's Maria Bartiromo.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: You bet. Good to be with you this morning.
BARTIROMO: I know you have a big week ahead in terms of testimonies.
BARTIROMO: You have got Glenn Simpson, who is expected on Tuesday; then, on Thursday, James Baker; Friday, Nellie Ohr.
Let's talk first about Rod Rosenstein.
BARTIROMO: He was supposed to meet with Congress. What happened?
JORDAN: He didn't show up.
Look, when you're the guy who in reality is running the Justice Department, and the chairman of the committee that has jurisdiction over your agency asks you to come, you are obligated to come and you're obligated to come and testify under oath. He didn't do that.
So if it takes a subpoena, that's exactly what should happen. We need him to answer questions about all kinds of issues associated with the Trump-Russia investigation, but specifically the statement that it's alleged that he said where he talked about actually recording the commander in chief of our great country and he talked about the 25th Amendment.
That is specifically what I want to ask him about.
BARTIROMO: Now, he said that he was saying it sarcastically, that it was a joke. But since he said that he didn't really mean that in a serious way, we have heard from a number of people.
Kim Strassel from The Wall Street Journal did an op-ed on this.
BARTIROMO: As well, you have got John Solomon from the Hill.
And in John Solomon's op-ed which was posted last week, he writes this, that, basically, this was the plan.
He joined me last week on FOX Business Network on the morning program "Mornings With Maria."
Here's what he told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SOLOMON, THE HILL: There are three separate FBI agents, McCabe, Lisa Page, and James Baker, the former FBI counsel, all who say this was a serious plot, this wasn't a joke, there was a real discussion in May, right after Comey was fired, about possibly taking out the president by recording him and then going to the Cabinet invoking the 25th Amendment.
Just think how extraordinary that is. That's a political solution. And you have got the Justice Department and FBI, who are not supposed to be involved in politics, having the discussion. Joke or no joke, it's a serious matter. And it's a sort of an infringement on what the Justice Department and the FBI are supposed to do.
I would expect Chairman Gowdy and lawmakers like Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan possibly to issue a subpoena to force this issue with Rosenstein as early as today or early next week. I think that's a second thing to watch, in addition to the contempt filing that we should see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Congressman, your take?
JORDAN: No, exactly.
He's got to come in and answer questions. Who else may have been in that room? I will tell you this, Maria. When Jim Baker was in his deposition two weeks ago and was asked about this, he was as serious as you could be in describing what he understood took place in that meeting between Andrew McCabe and Rod Rosenstein, where Mr. Rosenstein talked about actually recording the president of the United States.
So he needs to come in and answer questions. And, like I said, if it takes a subpoena, that's exactly what should be issued.
BARTIROMO: So, you were in the deposition with James Baker, the first one.
BARTIROMO: And you are going to be with him this upcoming Thursday. What do you want to get from James Baker this week?
JORDAN: Well, first of all, remember who this is. This is -- this is the FBI chief counsel. All kinds of things flow through him. So when he says that he believed Rod Rosenstein was serious about this, this -- this alleged statement about recording the president, you got to take that with the weight that it comes with, because it's the -- it's the FBI chief counsel.
So we're going to ask him more about. We -- our previous deposition was cut off early. We ran out of time. So we need him back in there, where we're going to ask more about that specific meeting that took place, and then his conversations with people who were in that meeting, how those went and who all he talked to you.
So all those things need to be asked.
BARTIROMO: Well, it's interesting, because you have spoken with him ready. And then we know that he also met with the lawyer from the Democratic National Committee on Mr. Sussmann.
So tell us why that's important.
Well, that you now have so many different people communicating information to the FBI about the Russia investigation. Remember, you had Nellie Ohr, who we're going to interview later this week.
Nellie Ohr's husband, who's a top official at the DOJ, was getting information that he was passing on to the FBI. You had Glenn Simpson and actually Christopher Steele, the guy who wrote the dossier, passing information directly to the FBI. And now we know that the chief lawyer for Perkins Coie, who represented the Democratic National Committee, is giving information to the FBI chief counsel as well.
So all these sources giving information to the FBI, I think it was this idea that the more people you have talking about the big lie, which was the dossier, the more apt people are to believe it. And that's exactly the technique and the method they were trying to use to get people to buy into this dossier that was actually used to go spy on the other -- other party's campaign.
BARTIROMO: But what must be said here are the people that were giving the information to the FBI were all working for the opposition, Hillary Clinton.
JORDAN: Bruce Ohr's wife was working for the opposition. Glenn Simpson was certainly working for the opposition. And Michael Sussmann, the lawyer at Perkins Coie, was the key lawyer for the Democrat National Committee and the Clinton campaign.
So that's exactly right. And yet the document that was put together, this dossier, was what was used to go to the secret court to get a warrant to go spy on the other campaign.
That is never supposed to happen in this country, but it did.
BARTIROMO: But the other thing is that Rod Rosenstein OKed the final FISA warrant. I mean, that FISA Warren to spy on Carter Page was re-upped three times. And the final one was given the green light by Rod Rosenstein.
So is he a witness?
JORDAN: Exactly -- exactly right.
I mean, there's all kinds of conflicts here. We now know the story that Mr. McCabe and Mr. Rosenstein have been in conflict and arguing about who should be recused. I think actually they're both right. Both of them should be recused from overseeing anything to do with the Mueller investigation.
BARTIROMO: Let me ask you about the conflicts that we're seeing between what you have heard from Andrew McCabe, who now has been referred criminal -- for criminal charges, and Rod Rosenstein, because, apparently, there are conflicts in what the two say.
No, there are. No, exactly. And I -- like I said, I think both of them should be -- shouldn't be overseeing the Mueller investigation, because McCabe had the conflict when his wife was running for office. And, of course, Rosenstein wrote the memo to -- that was given to the president that became the justification for firing James Comey.
And one of the things Mueller is looking into is potential obstruction of justice in the firing of James Comey. So, exactly right. I think they both should not be involved. Neither should be involved. And, of course, Andy McCabe isn't right now because he's been fired.
BARTIROMO: The president has said he's not going to fire Rod Rosenstein at this point. Given what you know, should he actually step down?
JORDAN: Well, I mean, look, I have not been a big fan of Mr. Rosenstein.
The fact is, we have asked for the McCabe memos. There's been a subpoena for those. We haven't got those. We have asked to see the document that Mr. Rosenstein wrote on August 2, 2017, which altered the scope of the investigation that Mr. Mueller is doing. We haven't been able to see that.
We have asked for specific portions of the FISA. We haven't been able to see that. We have asked for the 302s that -- Bruce Ohr's 302 when he had conversations with the FBI detailing what he said to Glenn Simpson and Chris Steele. We haven't seen that.
And John Huber, the guy who was put in charge the U.S. attorney to look into all this, we have not had one report from him over the last six months since he's been on the job.
So take all that, and then add into the fact that Rod Rosenstein was a no-show this week, and Glenn Simpson is taking the Fifth on Tuesday. That is the thing that frustrates me and, more importantly, frustrates you in the media and those people across this great country who want to know exactly what happened.
BARTIROMO: Yes, we're going to speak with Congressman John Ratcliffe in a few minutes. He has seen a lot of this classified information. And he's going to talk to us about the implications.
BARTIROMO: But you just rattled off a couple of things that need to be public.
Will the president declassify these documents, so that the American people can understand how they put together this narrative that Donald Trump had anything to do with Russia meddling in the U.S. election?
JORDAN: Let's hope so.
I mean, a few weeks ago, the president initially said that he was going to declassify them. He altered that and said that he would now run it through the inspector general, Michael Horowitz. I hope that happens as soon as possible.
I do think, at some point, we're going to get this information. We need to, because, again, we have got to get answers to these important questions that -- that go to the heart of this idea that it's supposed to be equal treatment under the law. It's supposed to be the rule of law. And I don't think that was followed in how the FBI started and launched and ran this -- this investigation into the president and to Russian.
BARTIROMO: Well, of course. And they were overseeing two investigations, one investigation into this narrative that Donald Trump had anything to do with Russia meddling. At the same time, they were running the investigation into Hillary Clinton and her e-mail scandal.
BARTIROMO: And those two investigations were handled very differently.
You said it. This is about America. This is about the rule of law. This should never have happened...
BARTIROMO: ... where people in power could put their finger on the scale.
Congressman, will there be any accountability for all of this?
JORDAN: Well, let's hope so.
I actually -- I hope, in the end, we get a Justice Department that will hold people accountable. But the frustrating part is this pattern. Remember, it was just a few years ago where we had Lois Lerner at the IRS target conservatives for their political beliefs. She was brought in front of Congress. She took the Fifth.
We had Bryan Pagliano, who set up the e-mail server for Secretary Clinton. He was called in front of Congress. He took the Fifth. And now we have Glenn Simpson, the guy who was paid for by the Clinton campaign, who put together this fake dossier that was used to go spy on the Trump campaign. He now is supposed to come in front of Congress Tuesday, and he's going to take the Fifth as well.
BARTIROMO: So, it sounds like they're all getting away with it.
JORDAN: This is a dangerous pattern.
BARTIROMO: It sounds like they're all getting away with it.
JORDAN: No, I know. And that -- and that's the part that drives Americans crazy.
BARTIROMO: That's right.
JORDAN: This idea that there's now this double standard, one set of rules for us regular folk, but a different set if you're part of the politically connected class.
And that is what is -- that is what is so wrong. And that's why I am bound and determined we're going to subpoena whoever we have to and get the answers, and hopefully have a Justice Department who will actually prosecute -- prosecute people who deserve it.
BARTIROMO: But there is a big if there, if you hold on to the majority.
BARTIROMO: Going into the midterm elections, all guys are wondering if these investigations even continue, because, if the Democrats flip the House, we may never hear another word about these investigations.
Then there's this.
BARTIROMO: Some are calling it a new low in political discourse.
Stay with us, Congressman.
BARTIROMO: I got to get your take on the comments from some top Democrats that are raising red flags ahead of the midterm elections.
Congressman Jim Jordan is with us.
Stay here to react.
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
I'm back with Congressman Jim Jordan of both the House Judiciary and Oversight and Government Reform Committees. He's also a House Freedom Caucus member.
And, Congressman, as we went to break just a moment ago, we talked about the midterm elections. Things have gotten heated up, with your detractors and the left throwing people out of restaurants, talking about, if you don't agree with us, there won't be any civility.
BARTIROMO: Here's a former A.G. Eric Holder and former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton just in the last two weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Michelle says, you know, when they go low, we go high.
AUDIENCE: We go high.
HOLDER: No. No. When they go low, we kick them.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about.
That's why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and/or the Senate, that's when civility can start again. But, until then, the only thing that the Republican seem to recognize and respect is strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Congressman, this is just extraordinary.
BARTIROMO: We know one of your colleagues, Steve Scalise, almost died. He got shot in the baseball practice.
BARTIROMO: Almost dead. Thank God he's OK.
So, no civility until the Democrats are back in control. Your take?
JORDAN: No, they -- the left and the Democrats have taken the most extreme positions in American history.
I said this the other day. They applaud Kaepernick when he disrespects the flag. They embrace Governor Cuomo when he says America was never that great. And they cheer on Maxine Waters when she says go out and harass anyone who supports the president.
So I think this campaign, Maria, is real simple, the extreme and radical and crazy positions the left and the Democrats are now taking vs. the amazing record under the leadership of President Trump over the last 20 months.
I mean, think about it, regulations reduced, taxes cut, economy growing at 4.2 percent, unemployment its lowest than 40 years, court -- Gorsuch and Kavanaugh both on the court. We're out of the Iran deal. The embassy is in fact in Jerusalem, and the hostages have come from North Korea.
Frame it up like that and, if we do that, go run that kind of campaign, their craziness and what's been accomplished in the last 20 months, I think we win and we keep the majority, and they don't get to run out the clock and do all the crazy things they want to do if, in fact, they get power.
BARTIROMO: So, has sentiment changed post-Kavanaugh, from your standpoint? What do the midterms look like right now, from your standpoint?
JORDAN: I -- I...
BARTIROMO: Will the Dems take over the House?
JORDAN: yes, I definitely think it's helped Republicans to see this -- for the American people to see us actually standing firm and getting done what we said we would get done.
And the president has certainly done that. He's doing exactly what he promised he was going to do, what he campaigned on, and what he was elected to do. The House needs to do a better job, frankly.
But if the Democrats take over, we will never get to build that border security wall that we promised the American people. We will never replace Obamacare. We will never defund Planned Parenthood. We will never reform welfare like we need to.
So that's what's at stake. And I think that's exactly how we have to frame it up over the next 23 days...
BARTIROMO: All right.
JORDAN: ... and have that kind of energy and intensity. And if we do, I think we win and keep the majority.
BARTIROMO: All right, we want to keep following that.
Congressman, it's good to see you this morning. Thanks very much. We will be watching.