Rudy Giuliani and Maria Bartiromo on McGahn's Testimony, Origins Of Russia Probe


Rudy Giuliani, attorney for President Trump, speaks out about the Russia investigation on 'Sunday Morning Futures.'

MARIA BARTIROMO, HOST: And this morning, President Trump comes out firing in the wake of a New York Times report yesterday, blasting it as another instance of fake news.

Mr. Trump insisting that he instructed his White House counsel to fully cooperate with the Mueller investigation because he has nothing to hide.

He tweeted this today: "The failing New York Times wrote a fake piece today implying that, because White House counsel Don McGahn was giving hours of testimony to the special counsel, he must be a John Dean-type rat. But I allowed him and all others to testify. I didn't have to. I have nothing to hide and have demanded transparency, so that this rigged and disgusting witch-hunt can come to a close."

"So many lives have been ruined," the president writes, "over nothing, and McCarthyism at its worst, yet Mueller and his gang of Dems refuse to look at the real crimes on the other side. Media is even worse."

My next guest this morning has said he's confident McGahn didn't provide any evidence that is remotely harmful to the president.

Joining me right now is Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's attorney.

Mr. Mayor, it's always a pleasure.


BARTIROMO: Good to see you.

Give us a status check where the investigation with the special counsel stands today.

GIULIANI: Well, it should be over.

The one thing left is, they want to question the president. Right now, we're going back and forth with letters trying to set out ground rules. We wrote them a letter a week-and-a-half ago. They haven't responded yet, which tells me they're not in a rush.

And someone just asked me, well, are we delaying? Hardly, in comparison to the special counsel. I mean, we have been going since June.

And we respond in two, three days, four days. They respond in two weeks. And these are all important things to whether you can do an interview or not, particularly in light of the fact that they already have all the information they're going to ask us about, except they don't have it under oath from the president.

So then we get very nervous that they're trying to trap him into perjury, which is not supposed to be what they are doing. They shouldn't be trapping people into a crime. If there's a crime, there is a crime, which there isn't. The president says he did nothing wrong. We don't think they have any evidence that he did.

Come on. Write your report. Put it out. And we will write ours. And let's move on to the election without interference.

BARTIROMO: Even in this article in The New York Times, you have to get all the way to the end, but then, at the end, it says McGahn told -- McGahn told Robert Mueller the president has not done anything outside of the law.

GIULIANI: He said everything was legal.


GIULIANI: Of course it is.

McGahn would have had to resign if...


GIULIANI: If back in January he went into the grand jury and anywhere in those two-and-a-half days, he said the president committed a crime, he's going to sit there for the next six months working for the president who committed a crime?

It's absurd. And The New York Times uses very, very deftly the idea that he cooperated extensively. Well, sure he did. This is a complicated thing. And you know lawyers ask the questions five different ways.


GIULIANI: They don't ask it just one way, probably to trap you.

But we are confident that he said nothing wrong about the president. And we're confident because the man is a man of integrity, and he would have resigned if something like that had happened.

BARTIROMO: Do you have any sense of whether or not Robert Mueller is in fact looking at the actual collusion that did take place, whereas Hillary Clinton...


BARTIROMO: ... paid for the dossier, that they used the dossier to get this warrant to spy on an American citizen, just because they didn't like Donald Trump?

GIULIANI: Now, the interesting thing is, the crimes that are being revealed were all committed by them.

Here is a situation in which Hillary Clinton pays something about over a million dollars for this Steele dossier, which is as phony as a $3 bill. It's -- one of them has Cohen going to Europe at a certain time. He was with his son for a baseball tryout.

Another has something to do with ties for eight years. There's no evidence of any such ties. They're exchanging intelligence for five years. Well, that's ridiculous. Trump wasn't even going to run for president until two years before. So it's a completely phony document.

The guy who did it in the midst of it gets fired. And then Ohr, even after Steele has been discredited and disgraced, starts working with him. Now, why did Ohr work with him? Ohr wasn't involved in anything like this, because Ohr's wife worked for the company that hired Steele and made over...

BARTIROMO: So they were profiting from the dossier?

GIULIANI: How about made over a million dollars from it?


GIULIANI: And his wife was involved in this specific investigation with that company.

Ohr doesn't reveal that to anybody in the Justice Department. Worse than that, when they submit applications for warrants, for FISA wires, they don't say that it's based on paid-for oppo research. They make it sound like it's based on intelligence. And they never correct it, even when they find out.

BARTIROMO: Right. And...

GIULIANI: Now, these are all perjury.

BARTIROMO: And these are all really important parts to an overwhelming narrative that has been put out there.

And I wonder if the president is going to declassify the documents related to the Trump-Russia narrative.

GIULIANI: Well, that's up to him.

BARTIROMO: I mean, he -- isn't that the only way the American people are actually going to understand what took place here?

GIULIANI: Well, yes, certainly.

No, you could find it other ways, but it's pretty critical to it, and it would end the -- end the speculation quickly one way or the other.

I think the president has to make that decision with his counsel, in this case, with Emmet Flood, who for this -- for purposes of this investigation is the special -- is the White House counsel, not McGahn.

McGahn basically is recused from that because he was a witness, which is fine. And I think the president has to decide that. We -- you and I can have feelings about it, but he has to decide it.

But the fact is, we know enough about it now to know that crimes were committed, perjury. If there was any collusion with the Russians, they're the one who did it. And there's evidence of it.

BARTIROMO: Well, what about that? Does Robert Mueller need to see the DNC server? I mean, where is the server? How -- how is Robert Mueller going to get his hands on all of the information pertaining to the election in 2016?

GIULIANI: The Justice Department and the FBI never asked to see the server.

It's been given to them -- it's been given to them in bits and pieces on a report done by an outside agency that worked for them. So, I mean, that's a totally weird thing to do.

BARTIROMO: This really blows my mind, because let's say -- I was at the Democratic National Convention. And I remember what happened on that day of the convention, day one of the convention.

It was Debbie Wasserman Schultz's convention.


BARTIROMO: And she gets hacked. All her e-mails are out showing an obvious sort of favoritism to Hillary Clinton and just blowing off Bernie Sanders. Everything is out, and now we know what happened.


BARTIROMO: She's forced to resign.

And so there you have at the Democratic National Convention a complete turnaround. We were only talking about Debbie Wasserman Schultz e-mails for a few minutes, when all of a sudden the conversation changes to Trump, Russia, potential collusion.

GIULIANI: Well, that then gets to Peter Strzok and ultimately Brennan, because this whole investigation started as soon as they knew that the Hillary thing was going to fizzle out.

They probably didn't anticipate that -- that Comey was going to damn her with faint praise by saying, I'm not going to prosecute her, but she did all these things that amount to crimes. He just virtually admits in that report she committed all these crimes, destroyed all these e-mails, lied.


GIULIANI: Did this and did that. I'm not going to prosecute her, but I'm going to tell you what a crook she is.

BARTIROMO: But what I'm saying is, here, we understand that their -- their systems were hacked. Everything is out there.

You would think that you're the Democratic National Committee. You would think that, when your e-mails are hacked, and now it totally opens up, you want the strength and the might of the U.S. government behind you, and you want to find out who got -- who hacked me.

But that's not what they did. They didn't give the server to the FBI.

GIULIANI: They never did.

BARTIROMO: They hired a private technology company to look at the server.

GIULIANI: Well, it's very, very suspicious with regards to this investigation.

And it also says, what the heck else was on that server? How many other crimes did they commit in addition to this one? And it also -- I mean, what I didn't realize until all this evidence started to come in is, this was all being orchestrated by John Brennan, because he's the one ultimately, when the Steele dossier is worth nothing, when none of it proves to be true, when none of it is verified, as even Comey said none of it was verified, and they used it was a basis to get wiretaps, he peddles the report to -- to Harry Reid in a total setup.

He goes to Reid and says, here is the report. They all go through it.

If you read it, believe me, Maria, you will immediately come to the conclusion that it's way out crazy. It's almost like the -- it's almost written like the threat letters that you get.

And he gives it to Reid. And Reid then composes a letter to Comey and tells Comey he has to investigate,but doesn't really base it on the dossier. Of course, Comey knows the dossier is phony.


GIULIANI: And -- and so Comey starts the investigation, and then eventually Mueller takes over.

BARTIROMO: So, what are you going to do now if John Brennan sues you, sues the president?


BARTIROMO: That's what he said on "Meet the Press" this morning, that he's going to come up with a legal pushback for losing the security clearance. And he says he wants to make sure nobody else loses the security clearance.

GIULIANI: Well, then -- then we take his deposition right away.

As the plaintiff, he would have to go first. And I would do -- I mean, I would volunteer to do that case for the president. I would love to be -- have Brennan under oath for, I don't know how many days, two, three days? We will find out about Brennan.

And we will find out what a terrible job he did going back to being the head of mission at the -- when the Khobar Towers was bombed and our Marines were killed. Or we can -- we can see what he -- what he did or said about Benghazi, how many lies he told about that.

BARTIROMO: Or supporting communism.

GIULIANI: Well, I don't know if I will go back that far, to when he voted for Gus Hall, and I don't know. Anybody out there vote -- ever vote for a communist?

BARTIROMO: What are you going to do, Rudy? At the end of the day...


GIULIANI: How do you become CIA director if, in the midst of the Cold War, you voted for a communist?

Only Obama would pick you. And he had a terrible time getting through the Senate, because, number one, he was in charge of -- he was in charge of a lot of water-boarding, and defended it. Then he changed his mind about it.

Then he was in charge of the drone strikes, where you picked out the terrorists you didn't like and you put bombs on them, instead of taking them and interviewing them. Plus, he claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw.

So, how does all this square up? Isn't this is a guy who is an opportunist and a political hack who goes whichever way the -- whichever way the winds are going?

BARTIROMO: How tough is this -- has this been for you in terms of pushing up against this resistance constantly?

I see all of the evidence. I got it. And I understand, I think, what took place in 2016. And yet it hasn't resonated with the broad public as much. It's incredible that they have thrown out their ideals, their values of all of the things we hold dear, our freedoms, wiretapping someone for no reason, because it's Donald Trump.


You know, number one, I'm really discouraged, as a former Justice Department official who gave 17 -- 17 years of his life to the Justice Department, to see a Justice Department under Sessions that will do nothing about this.

We can put the recusal thing aside with Jeff, who is a friend of mine. How he's not taking up these investigations just kills me. I mean, these are investigations that are crying out to be looked at and turned into crimes.

Meanwhile, they're -- they're fumbling around with this collusion thing. It's a laugher. There was no collusion and no conspiracy with the Russians involving Donald Trump.

However, we know that the affidavit is false. We have the person who signed it. Why aren't we investigating that person...


BARTIROMO: Is the president going to revoke any other security clearances?

GIULIANI: Well, if there are more like Brennan, he has every right to.

And Brennan accused him of treason. And just a few minutes ago, I did an interview. I listened to him. And he basically says he has no evidence that the president committed a crime. He says, well, there was collusion, for which there is no evidence, but I don't know if it was a conspiracy that would make it a crime.

But he says to the guy was involved in -- the president was involved in treason, which is punishable by death. So, this is an out-of-control political hack.

BARTIROMO: And for someone to be saying that, knowing that he has security clearance, you're sort of suggesting that you know something.

GIULIANI: Of course.

BARTIROMO: Because you have got access to this.

Let me ask you this. You mentioned Jeff Sessions. Should the president fire Jeff Sessions?

GIULIANI: The president should not fire anyone right now, because it would take focus off of how their case is falling apart.

BARTIROMO: But why isn't he doing his job, then? You just said it. Sessions.

GIULIANI: Why isn't Sessions doing the job?


GIULIANI: You are going to have to ask him. I don't know.

These don't stand in the way of anything he's recused himself of.

BARTIROMO: Will he fire him after the midterms?


GIULIANI: I don't know.

But, I mean, the main thing is, let's get this investigation over with, and then the president can take whatever action he believes is necessary, which is up to him, not me, as his lawyer.

The only thing I would like him to give me is defense of that lawsuit that Brennan -- that Brennan is going to bring, because I think my payment for this investigation and my representation of the president is to get to depose John Brennan, one of the biggest, biggest frauds in this -- in this country.

BARTIROMO: Make your day.


BARTIROMO: Make your day.

Rudy Giuliani, it's good to see you.

GIULIANI: Thank you.

BARTIROMO: Thank you so much, Rudolph Giuliani.

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