Hannity vs. Ramos On Illegal Immigration: We Can't Have A Discussion If You Use Your Talking Points

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FOX NEWS: Attorney General Jeff Sessions slams California's refusal to comply with federal immigration policies; journalist Jorge Ramos shares his perspective on Wednesday's edition of Hannity.

Ramos told host Sean Hannity he is not here to defend "criminal" illegal immigrants and accused the host of not telling his audience the truth.

"Let me just say that the vast majority of immigrants and the vast majority of documented immigrants are not criminals, Sean," Ramos said. "Immigrants are less likely to be criminals than those born in the United States."





SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Joining us now, the author of "Stranger: The Challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era," Univision anchor Jorge Ramos.

Jorge, welcome back. Good to see you, sir.

JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISON ANCHOR: Great to be here. Thank you.

HANNITY: All right. Let's just for a second put aside DACA. Let's put aside chain migration, let's put aside the visa lottery. I want to talk specifically about criminal aliens in the United States -- those that came here illegally, those that committed crimes, those that are immigration officers, ICE and others, are trying to deport.

Do you support that?

RAMOS: Let me just say that the vast majority of immigrants and the vast majority of undocumented immigrants in this country, Sean, are not criminals. As a matter of fact, all the reports that I've seen and all the reports that you've read clearly conclude that they are less likely to commit --

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Jorge, these are talking points.

RAMOS: They're less likely to be criminals and to be behind bars. Those are the facts, Sean.

HANNITY: I went down to the border. I'll give you facts, because I was on horseback, all-terrain vehicle. I was in helicopters. I was in boats, and I sat through a security briefing in Texas with Rick Perry, 642,000 crimes committed by illegal immigrants against Texans alone.

Here's my questions: putting all those issues aside, those that commit crimes in America, including some violent crimes, even murder, those criminal aliens, do you support having them removed from this country?

RAMOS: Absolutely. I have -- I have no problem with that. I'm not here to defend real criminals.

But we cannot criminalize the whole immigrant population simply because of what if you have done --

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Did I do that? Did I do that?

RAMOS: No. I would say that all the white population is responsible for what Stephen Paddock did in Las Vegas. That will be completely unfair. It's exactly the same thing here, Sean.

HANNITY: Let me give you one statistic. Illegal aliens accounted for 13 percent of all non-immigration related federal sentences in 2016. Now, that is a significantly higher percentage than the 3.5 percent estimated population.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Wait a minute -- you just got done saying all immigrants don't commit crimes. I will agree with you. But that is a much higher percentage than the rest of the population and of illegal immigrants in the country.

RAMOS: I have different numbers. According to the Migration Policy Institute, less than 3 percent of undocumented immigrants committed a felony. And that in this case, (INAUDIBLE) this has to do with fake IDs. This percentage is much lower than the rest of the U.S. population.

So, basically my concern, Sean, is that you are, and President Trump and many of his followers, are criminalizing an immigrant population who is not responsible for the economic problems that we have and who's not responsible for the majority of the crimes in this country.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: I'm not talking about the economic problems.

But you know something, Jorge? You never went -- are you saying that the people that I sat with, those were security people, law enforcement, border agents, I sat in a meeting and I put it up on the screen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Criminal aliens have been responsible for about 642,000 offenses, criminal offenses. You look up there in the top left, sexual assaults, there's close to 8,000 victims.

HANNITY: Six hundred and forty-two thousand crimes since --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2008.

HANNITY: In Texas alone?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 200,000 individuals with a criminal history, they committed over 614,000 crimes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the cost of not securing the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Are you literally saying to me that they are lying? Because they're not. And the problem is --

RAMOS: What I'm telling to you is that --

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: You sound like you don't care about the Americans that are victims of crime that -- by people that don't respect our law.

RAMOS: Of course I do care. I mean, I -- of course I do care. I live in this country, my children live in this country. And you have to put those numbers in perspective because --

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Six hundred and forty-two thousand in perspective. Give me the perspective.

(CROSSTALK)

RAMOS: The false perception to your audience, Sean, that most immigrants and most undocumented immigrants are criminals. And you know, they don't want to get in trouble with the law.

HANNITY: Why are you putting words in my mouth? Why would you do that?

RAMOS: No, they don't want to get in trouble with the law.

HANNITY: Then why --

RAMOS: They want to prosper and help the rest of America.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: I would argue, I don't concede your point, but you're wrong on another point. You're right, the vast majority and having been to the border 13 times, everywhere from the Rio Grande to San Diego and having been in the drug warehouses, I would argue, yes, they want to leave the property that many of them face in Mexico and have more opportunity in America. I'm saying do it legally.

But there are six -- you're not answering my question -- 642,000 crimes committed against Texans alone in a seven-year period. That's not your family, Jorge. Where is your sympathy for those victims of crime and why shouldn't we take those that are committing crimes and get rid of them tomorrow?

RAMOS: Again, I am not here to defend real criminals. I'm not here to defend real criminals. But then, if you just put those numbers and you put them --

HANNITY: Coming illegally, you're criminal. You broke the law.

(CROSSTALK)

RAMOS: -- in context and you don't tell the people, you don't tell your audience the truth, the fact that immigrants are less likely to be criminals than those born in the United States.

HANNITY: That's not factually accurate.

Address Kate Steinle's family, because there are a lot of families that have sadly been victimized by those people here illegally that commit more crimes. What do you say to her family?

RAMOS: I cannot even imagine what they're feeling. I cannot even think about that. There is no excuse for that. Again, if you say that all undocumented immigrants our responsible for these crimes but --

HANNITY: Nobody's saying that.

RAMOS: You are inferring that.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: I'm not inferring. No. I speak very directly. I am saying to the mayor of Oakland.

RAMOS: Exactly as President Trump did and that is not good.

HANNITY: I am saying to the mayor of Oakland, stop aiding and abetting criminals that committed more crimes and those that are here illegally who committed crimes on top of that and I think you should want that mayor to do the same. Stop.

RAMOS: What you're talking about sanctuary cities. Sanctuary cities are saying no and California is saying no.

HANNITY: I am saying we have federal law that ought to be obeyed, absolutely.

RAMOS: Since the 1950's.

HANNITY: You don't believe in a rule of law then.

RAMOS: I do believe in the rule of law, but somebody has to help immigrants, one. And second, this policy established by President Trump and his administration is already helping a lot bad hombres.

HANNITY: President Trump supported DACA. President Trump that you don't like supported DACA.

RAMOS: Let's not forget that the person who killed DACA is called Donald Trump.

HANNITY: He was the one willing to make law. Let me ask a question. When you go down with me into a town hall in Texas and will invite the 642,000 families of those that would like to come that were victims of crime and listen to their stories? Will you come?

RAMOS: I'll do a show with you and then we will decide who is going to be attending that show, but I think this conversation.

HANNITY: No.

RAMOS: This conversation is interesting and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity.

HANNITY: I got to roll.

RAMOS: We have to continue. I understand. All right. Thank you Sean.

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