On Monday night's broadcast of his FOX News program, Tucker Carlson interviewed Deirdre Griswold, the editor of "Workers World," a publication he described as a weekly communist newspaper that supports the North Korean regime.
Carlson began the interview by calling her a longtime supporter of North Korea (DPRK) and its leaders, something she did deny. His first question was: "So, since you've been to both countries, I'm just wondering, so one is, obviously, the world's last Stalinist regime. It's pretty rigidly Marxist. South Korea is floridly capitalist. It's a market-based economy which, of course, you reject. Which country would you rather live in
Griswold opted not to answer, instead expressing she wanted to spend her time on the show to talk about those in Washington who want to push for a war in Korea. Carlson agreed with her, that he is opposed to a war and that there are people who would like to engage militarily with North Korea.
"Let me just say that I have never said this to a communist before, but I actually agree with you," he quipped. "I don't want a war in Korea."
Carlson tried for the rest of the interview to get Griswold to admit that North Korean leadership treats its citizens poorly to no avail. Griswold defended the regime, noting they have a 100% literacy rate and universal healthcare.
When asked why people risk their lives to escape the nation if North Korea is such a great place Griswold said, "people go back and forth" all the time.
"People go back and forth. You are taking this whole - in a whole other direction that shouldn't be of any significance to people here," Griswold said.
"Do you ever say to yourself, I dislike America where I live more than I dislike North Korea?" Carlson asked.
"I don't dislike the people of this country at all," she answered.
Carlson asked if North Korea is such a free place why is it like a prison. Griswold countered that the United States "has more prisoners than any other country in the world." Carlson said that is not true and that 800 per 100,000 people are in some type of North Korean prison.
"One question I have been able to answer simply is this North Korea a free place, a place you'd want to live or is it a prison?" Carlson asked.
"Do you know what the imprisonment rate is in the United States?" she responded. "The US has more prisoners than any other country in the world."
"Does it bother you at all, does it make you rethink your defense of North Korea when you see its population starving and its leader dying of obesity?" he asked.
Griswold denied that the people in North Korea are starving and said "they're the healthiest looking people in the world.
"You are telling people lies about the world. And that's what your station does. And I am not surprised by that at all," Griswold chastised Carlson.
GRISWOLD: They are people who want to get out from underneath the threat of war that the US has posed ever since it invaded their country in -
CARLSON: I know you don't want to debate, by which you mean you don't want to answer real questions. But let's try a couple of them. If they are free, why can't they leave?
GORKA: Look, people -
CARLSON: That's a fair question.
GRISWOLD: People go back and forth. You are taking this whole - in a whole other direction that shouldn't be of any significance to people here.
CARLSON: Wait, wait, wait, why does it look - you are up here speaking - hold on.
GRISWOLD: Why do you think there are people in Washington who are for a war. Why do you think they are for a war?
CARLSON: That's one of the questions I have never been able to answer in 35 years here. But one question I have been able to answer simply is this North Korea a free place, a place you'd want to live or is it a prison?
Do you know what the imprisonment rate in North Korea is? It's 800 per 100,000. Do you know what it is in South Korea? One hundred?
GRISWOLD: Do you know what the imprisonment rate is in the United States?
CARLSON: It's very high. It's nowhere near 800.
GRISWOLD: The US has more prisoners than any other country in the world.
CARLSON: That's not true. North Korea has the highest.
GRISWOLD: No, no, no.
CARLSON: But let me just ask you a question.
GRISWOLD: I'm talking about the number of prisoners. That's the highest in the world in the United States. That's true. And the majority of them are poor people and they wouldn't be in jail if they had a lawyer to keep them out of jail.
CARLSON: Right, right.
GRISWOLD: Like so many people in Washington and Wall Street have lawyers.
CARLSON: So, I guess, this is kind of the point I was making, is that no regime, no matter how repressive, no matter how many of its own people it has killed, is ever undefended by the left if it hates America.
If North Korea suddenly became pro-American, you wouldn't support it, would you? You know that you wouldn't.
GRISWOLD: You say that this is a country that hates America.
CARLSON: I would say that of North Korea. I think that's fair to say. Going out on a limb there. Yes, I am.
GRISWOLD: Did North Korea ever come over to this country and bomb us? If they ever do what the US did to Korea, do you think the Koreans feel good about what the US did to Korea? The US bombed every building over one story during the Korean War.
The bombers had to come back with their pay loads undropped because there were no buildings left to bomb.
CARLSON: Do you ever - just a quick reality check. Do you ever say to yourself, I dislike America where I live more than I dislike North Korea?
GRISWOLD: I don't dislike the people of this country at all.
CARLSON: But the country itself.
GRISWOLD: I'm thinking about them as well as the people of North Korea. We should not have a war against Korea.
CARLSON: I'm with you there. Hold on. Hold on.
GRISWOLD: The Washington and the Pentagon who are actually doing the planning for such a war?
CARLSON: Let me ask you one last question -
GRISWOLD: You know there is going to be war games coming up against North Korea.
CARLSON: Yes, war games. But let me ask you a question.
CARLSON: I don't want to have to cut you off. I just want to ask you one last question, a sincere one.
GRISWOLD: But they're going to resume. We've got to worry about that.
CARLSON: I got it. Does it bother you at all, does it make you rethink your defense of North Korea when you see its population starving and its leader dying of obesity?
GRISWOLD: The people there are not starving.
CARLSON: They just had a famine 15 years ago.
GRISWOLD: This is a country that was left in ashes, in ashes.
CARLSON: Oh, it's our fault. OK.
GRISWOLD: Just a generation and a half ago. They rebuilt their country.
CARLSON: How did South Korea get so built up.
GRISWOLD: They rebuilt their country. They have - if you look at the Koreans, they're the healthiest looking people in the world.
CARLSON: They're the best. Except for the tape worms and the tuberculosis. They're awesome.
You know what? You should get some dental work.
GRISWOLD: You are telling people lies about the world. And that's what your station does. And I am not surprised by that at all.
CARLSON: Well, we're glad to have you on -
GRISWOLD: And I'm glad to have had an opportunity.
CARLSON: Thank you so much. It's great to see you.