FOX NEWS: Tucker takes on Jillian Weiss, the director of Transgender Legal Defense & Education Fund, over Trump's revoking Obama federal guidelines that allowed public school students to use restrooms corresponding to their gender identity.
TUCKER CARLSON (HOST): I believe, for whatever it's worth, for and politeness and decency and I'm not making people uncomfortable, especially children, I have four. But I also believe in honesty. So I want to get exactly what this means, I'm a 47-year-old man, I think that's pretty obvious. If I were to decide tomorrow if I were a 47-year-old woman, should I be allowed to go shower and women's locker room?
JILLIAN WEISS: The idea that there is no objective factors to be considered in who is transgender and how we determine bathroom use is really not the way that this works. The fact is that people makes this decision after a lot of serious consideration, they see medical doctors, there is psychologists involved. There's a lot to think about. It's not an easy process as someone who's gone through that I can tell you just don't decide tomorrow. That's really not the way it works.
CARLSON: But what if I did decide tomorrow, and it was totally sincere, by the way how would you know whether it was a sincere or not, only I can make that decision and what if I did, what I be allowed to go in shower in a women's locker room, and if not why not?
WEISS: Well I think the answer is no, for example, we have the Gavin Grimm case which is coming to the Supreme Court very soon, the ACLU just put out its brief in that case. And they went through what he had to address she changed his name, he had to medical doctors, he had letters from psychologists and so on, it wasn't the kind of thing where thing where he came in and said oh, now I'm going to be using the boys room. So---
CARLSON: So let's go through because there is a lot at stake here and you know this because you do it for a living, there's a lot of money at stake and there's a lot of bigger issues at stake, the definition of gender itself, which is at the center of any society. So what are the absolute standards that are required for a person to change his or her sex?
WEISS: There is an organization called the World Professional Association of Transgender Health which has a series of standards of care, we're on number seven now or eight is coming up. And so this is something that doctors and medical people, psychologists have worked with for years and there is a whole protocol. So I mean I can't give you the entire thing right now but I think it's important to understand that there is something called transgender and we have been here for forever, we've been going to the bathroom forever.
CARLSON: I'm not contesting any of that, and just to be totally clear, I'm not attacking anyone. But I think it's fair because so much is at stake to get much more precise than you are getting. So what exactly are the standards, are they legal standards, they standards that you agree with? What exactly are the standards, the actual standards because again a lot of money is at stake here.
WEISS: Yes well, the medical standards require seeing a therapist for a certain period of time before cross sex hormones will be prescribed, a certain amount of time living as the opposite sex before certain kinds of medical treatment and surgery will be permitted. The other thing to keep in mind in that the courts have been parsing this for the last 15, 20 years. And so if somebody is being stereotyped because of their sex because they're not perceived to fit in with appropriate masculinity or femininity because of whatever people perceive as their birth sex that is something prohibited by the anti-discrimination statutes.
CARLSON: Right, that's the anti-discrimination statutes, but still you still haven't explained and I've asked you a bunch of what the legal standards are. I don't think that there are any and here's why that's a concern. The federal government spends over $11 billion every year on sex specific programs and I'm sure you know what they are, the small business administration among many others, gives a ton of money to people because they are women. And so how are we supposed to navigate that and let's be honest with each other, there are no standards other than I say that I'm of a different sex, how are you supposed to navigate this and what's going to prevent charlatans from jumping in and taking all that cash?
WEISS: Let me give you an example, in the field of athletics, there are standards that have been developed for when someone is permitted to move into a particular single activity. It involves how long they have been in hormones, how long their physician has been -- whether or not they have the strength equivalent to that of women's sports for example. So there are standards that have been developed I don't know all the details of that exactly.