Filmmaker Michael Moore says that the day after Donald Trump is inaugurated, the Republican Congress will pass "law after law after law" bringing "suffering" to the people of the United States. Moore says it is the job of the Democrats to obstruct as much as they can. Watch the full town hall event with Moore hosted by CNN's Van Jones below.
MOORE: He's going to be inaugurated on January 20, and January 21, which is a Saturday, don't be surprised if the Republicans call a Saturday session of congress, and they are going to pass law after law after law and have him sign it the next day, and it’s going to be one piece of suffering against people after another. It is the job of the Democrats now to stop the suffering that he is about to create for the American people.
Watch the full interview:
Transcript, via CNN:
JONES: Welcome back to "The Messy Truth." I'm Van Jones.
Now, we're tough on Republicans sometimes. Here's the messy truth for Democrats, like I said, we kind of suck, too. We claim to be for the working class, but we left out a lot of workers in the Rust Belt, as you saw.
We claim to be the party for the next generation, but we offended all those young Bernie Sanders voters and we never fixed it the right way.
And as far as people of color, a lot of black folk don't feel like we're getting very much for our votes.
So, yes, I'm going to keep it messy for everybody. Both parties have to look at their problems.
So, to talk about it, we've got the liberal activist, the rabble rouser, the legendary filmmaker, Michael Moore, in the house.
JONES: Love it, I love it.
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Thank you.
JONES: So, now, I know you were hot about that last segment but I don't want to talk about that yet. We've got to talk about these Democrats.
MOORE: Yes, yes. By the way, who sucked because there's no definition for a party that twice in 16 years wins the popular vote and loses the election.
JONES: Yes --
MOORE: How do -- you can't explain that to people in other countries. How do the Democrats -- they lose when they win. It's --
JONES: Well, but I want to get your opinion on it, because, you know, the Hillary Clinton campaign came out, you know, several days ago, and they didn't seem to really get the message. They were blaming the Comey letter for pretty much everything. You have to have a better explanation for what went wrong for Democrats in the Comey letter. What is it? MOORE: First of all, I haven't been grieving for the last month
because I got over my five stages back in June when I wrote a blog that millions read that said the five reasons Trump is going to win. And I said, and this is how he's going to do it. He's going to win what I call the four Brexit states. He's going to win Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin.
JONES: Wow. You got four out of four?
MOORE: Yes. And there's a lot of numbers too, by the way, if you need help.
JONES: But let me ask a question -- you must have had a massive polling operation that Democrats spent millions on, yes or no?
JONES: A huge focus group, yes or no?
JONES: You must have a massive data set, a billion dollar set like the Democrats, yes or no?
JONES: So, you were -- so the Democrats set a billion dollars on fire, and they could have just asked you?
MOORE: Yes, right.
And actually -- I actually -- I offered -- I was actually trying to set up a meeting when it was -- when -- definitely in August and September, and I knew this was happening, because I live in Michigan, OK? So I -- I don't live in the bubble. I vote in Michigan. I -- I -- you know, it's my home.
MOORE: I grew up there. And I could see that like the first family that you had on, there were a lot of Barack Obama voters that were going to vote for Trump.
JONES: You saw it coming?
MOORE: Yes, a long time ago. And -- and it's because the people in the -- in the Rust Belt have suffered, suffered considerably. And nobody has been there for them, not the Republicans, definitely. The Democrats are there sometimes, but not always. And -- and they're -- and they saw Trump as their human Molotov cocktail that they wanted to throw into the system and blow it up.
They didn't necessarily -- like you said at the beginning of the show, they didn't necessarily agree with everything about Trump, but they were angry enough, wanting to -- to make this point and send a message, like they did in the Brexit vote in -- in England. JONES: Well -- well, that -- that thing was coming.
MOORE: The message has been sent.
JONES: The message sent and delivered.
You saw it. You tried to warn folks. They didn't listen. we've got people in the audience that have a lot to say about this
And the first person I want to hear from is Michael Darr, who has never voted for a Republican, but he voted for Donald Trump.
MICHAEL DARR, TRUMP VOTER FROM NEW YORK: Mr. Moore, I just wanted to say my grandparents are from Aleppo, so I'm the grandson of Syrian immigrants. The hate crimes against Arab people is definitely a very real thing.
But I wanted to know why doesn't the Democratic Party disavow the violence against Arabs in countries like Syria with terrorist groups like Arar Al-Sham, Jabhat al-fatehi al-Sham (ph), that they directly support with their policies.
And will there -- will -- will they focus on the people that are really dying and really suffering...
DARR: -- that they claim to care so much about in this country?
MOORE: Yes, I can't answer for the Democratic Party or these politicians. And -- and you called them policies. You could also call them non-policies.
And it's -- it's -- it's why I think a lot of people were drawn to Trump, because -- because he seemed to -- he's that kind of guy who's going to like do something. And -- and -- and he understands, you know, the importance of the perception. And he understands how quickly he can change the perception, too, because he changes himself...
MOORE: -- you know, every other day.
But -- but I think -- I want to say this to you as a...
MOORE: -- as an African-American...
MOORE: -- that while I have a lot of understanding as to why people I grew up with in the Midwest, who are like me, an angry white guy with a high school education, that's me, but I -- you know, the thing is, though, you have a responsibility, no matter how angry you are, no matter how much you're hurting, to not vote for somebody who says things that are hateful, who ridicules the disabled, who says racist things. You -- I mean -- I mean black people have been hurting for a long time...
MOORE: -- and they don't go into the voting booth and go who can I -- who -- who's the biggest hater on the ballot here I can vote for?
You know, do you have a -- we have -- we have a responsibility...
JONES: I like...
MOORE: -- to vote out of love.
JONES: -- (INAUDIBLE) let me -- let me tell you something. I like what you're saying. I -- and I'm torn. On the one hand, I think what you've got is you have to recognize that hurt people holler. And when people are sitting on -- on a white hot stove, you know, they -- they sometimes make decisions that other people don't understand.
JONES: And, frankly, a lot of the -- the young African-Americans are protesting people they're confused by. So I'm -- I'm a little bit torn.
But what I want to -- what I -- I like about what you're saying is that we've almost gotten to the point in the country that were saying we're going to let the white guys just -- they can't possibly think past their lunch pail. They just can't possibly. So they're just -- they're -- they -- we aren't going to actually ask them to stand with everyone else.
And the problem we have now is the underdogs in the red states and the underdog in -- in the blue states who have a common pain don't have a common purpose now and they're mad at each other.
Isn't it awful that poor and working class folks in the red states and poor and working class folks in the blue states are now mad at each other?
MOORE: Well, remember, poor and working class is black and white and Hispanic.
MOORE: It comes -- it comes in all colors. And -- and many Americans have suffered over the last 20 years.
MOORE: And politicians have not helped them. So they -- they're angry. And in a state like Michigan...
JONES: Part of what's going on, though, is, you know, we're kind of having this high-minded conversation. But I think about my liberal friends, who are just basically in a four week long freak-out right now. I mean they're -- we're talking all this lofty stuff.
JONES: But you've got a lot of -- a lot of Democrats that are just swinging back and forth between denial and -- and blind panic.
JONES: And -- and, you know...
MOORE: I would...
JONES: -- some of the stuff that you said actually might fall into that category.
JONES: So -- so are -- is the stuff that you're doing when you're out there -- I'm just -- just curious now...
JONES: -- because I want Democrats to think and not just have, you know, crazy emotions.
JONES: You -- sometimes you're out there saying, you know, you're talking about Nazi Germany and all this sort of stuff.
Are you stoking up Democrats to the point where we can't even think as high-minded as this conversation?
MOORE: It's not Nazi Germany we need to worry about. It's the friendly fascism of the 21st century. And -- and I think Democrats -- people who voted for Hillary, first of all, feel good about the fact that the majority of your fellow Americans did not want Donald J. Trump as their president. That's the majority by over two and a half million.
So take some comfort in that your fellow Americans, you know...
JONES: Are with you?
MOORE: -- did -- are with you.
MOORE: Number one. Number two...
JONES: Yes? MOORE: -- you know, we've got to get active here. We've got to...
JONES: Yes, I agree with that. But...
MOORE: -- can I just say this -- let me just say this.
JONES: But -- and then I've got to get one voice in here.
JONES: You've got to hear this guy.
MOORE: No, let's hear the guy (INAUDIBLE)...
JONES: You're going to love this guy.
MOORE: But I -- yes, go ahead.
JONES: That's good.
So I want to bring in, who I think has got something important to say to you.
CHRIS VITALE, TRUMP VOTER FROM MICHIGAN: When I was a kid growing up, I listened to Lee Iacocca tell us how this country got screwed on trade deals. Right now, Germany puts 19 percent tax on an American car that gets shipped to Germany. China does even more. China does that to ensure production in China. NAFTA was supposed to create a Mexican middle class. Twenty-five years later, the average Mexican manufacturing wage is $2.49 an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
VITALE: I don't necessarily believe that Donald Trump is a hater. I think he's a businessman.
Tell me why I shouldn't have voted for him when my own union didn't back him and his own party doesn't back him on trade, but he's willing to speak the truth?
MOORE: On that issue, I can't tell you that you -- that -- that -- I can't -- because he -- because what he says -- now, what he'll do, I don't know what he'll do. You know, but what he says is that NAFTA was wrong. He was -- that's correct, it was wrong. TPP is wrong.
All of the whole unfair thing that got set up. And Democrats and Republicans screwed the working class of this country.
And the low unemployment that we have now is, in large part, due to the fact that yes, people have jobs, but they don't have the union jobs, the middle class jobs that they used to have.
So -- so -- so but let's see what he does with that, because -- because ultimately, he's a billionaire who looks out -- he has an ideology that he believes in and it's called Donald J. Trump.
MOORE: That's what he's going to make sure that he takes care of.
JONES: Hey, look...
MOORE: I don't think he's going to take care of you, the working person.
VITALE: I think he's done more for me than any Democrat has done in my lifetime.
MOORE: He hasn't done anything for you yet.
VITALE: He raised the issue.
VITALE: He raised the issue...
MOORE: He raised...
VITALE: -- and that's more than any of them have done.
MOORE: -- he raised the issue.
JONES: Hey, let -- let him talk. Let him talk.
What have -- what has he -- by the way, this is a (INAUDIBLE)...
MOORE: He raised the issue.
JONES: -- wait, hold on a second.
He's a Chrysler worker and he's from a state I think you've heard of, called Michigan. Just so what has he done for you?
VITALE: In a county you've heard of called Macomb.
MOORE: That's right.
VITALE: I can tell you this, no other politician in my lifetime has ever brought this issue to the forefront. And the fact of the matter is we do get screwed on trade.
VITALE: And they tell these companies to be more global. Well, when you add $9,000 to the price of a Jeep when it goes to Germany, I'm frankly amazed they can sell any of them over there, let alone a few of them.
MOORE: Right. And when... VITALE: And that needs to change.
MOORE: -- and when he doesn't follow through, when he doesn't get rid of NAFTA, when you're still screwed in Michigan five months from now, two years from now, where are you going to be then on this issue?
JONES: How do you know he's not going to follow through, Michael?
MOORE: There's nothing in his behavior -- the man is, first of all, a malignant narcissist and -- and he's...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow!
MOORE: -- only about himself, folks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow!
MOORE: And you're about to see that happen in...
JONES: Hey, listen...
MOORE: -- in spade.
JONES: I hate to say this...
JONES: I hate to say this...
VITALE: You could say the same thing about Hillary Clinton.
JONES: Wait, wait, hold on, guys. Hold on. I hate to be the one to say this, it makes me feel very odd. But he's not an idiot. He's going to get reelected...
MOORE: He's not an idiot.
JONES: -- he's going to get reelected by these guys...
JONES: -- can't you give him a chance at least on the stuff you agree with him on?
MOORE: I can't even imagine he's thinking about reelection. I think -- I can't even imagine he's thinking about I've got to do this for four years?
Not -- not fair.
JONES: OK, listen, we've got -- I've got to get one more voice in here. Hey, thank you so much, sir.
VITALE: Thank you.
JONES: We've got -- yes, you give him a round of applause.
Thank you, sir.
JONES: We've got Rebeca Liebson here, a sophomore at Stony Brook University.
She's got a tough political question for you.
REBECCA LIEBSON, CLINTON VOTER FROM NEW YORK: Hi.
So I've grown up in an era that's greatly been characterized by political gridlock.
So with that being said, what do you think is the best move going forward for the Congressional Democrats?
Do you think that they're going to be as oppositional as the GOP was...
MOORE: Oh, I hope so.
JONES: -- under Obama?
MOORE: Oh, yes.
LIEBSON: Or do you think...
MOORE: I hope...
JONES: -- they're actually going to...
JONES: -- try and reach across the aisle and (INAUDIBLE) coalition?
MOORE: No. No, no, no, no, no. No. This is not the kumbaya moment here. They -- the Democrats in Congress, they represent the majority -- the majority of Americans, let's say it again, wanted Hillary Clinton. The majority of Americans did not want Donald Trump.
It is the responsibility of this minority of Democrats in Congress...
JONES: Hey, wait, hold on...
MOORE: -- to block, obstruct, disrupt, and do whatever they can to prevent the onslaught that is...
JONES: But Michael -- Michael, wait.
MOORE: -- going to happen with Donald Trump...
JONES: Wait. Wait. Hold on a second.
MOORE: -- that the American people do not support.
JONES: Wait a minute. I have -- I keep feeling so odd, sir.
MOORE: I've ruined your kumbaya moment.
JONES: I know. Exactly.
MOORE: I'm sorry.
JONES: I just -- but let -- but let me just push back on you as a...
MOORE: Yes, yes, yes. (INAUDIBLE)...
JONES: I'm on the left side of Pluto just like you.
MOORE: Yes, yes. Yes.
JONES: But let me just say a couple of things...
MOORE: I wore a tie for you, by the way.
JONES: And I -- and I appreciate that, sir.
JONES: Listen, when the Republicans did this, they blocked our president on everything.
JONES: And you know who suffered?
JONES: Those workers suffered, the kids in Oakland suffered...
JONES: -- the whole country suffered.
JONES: Are you saying that -- that now Democrats should have a policy of imposing that same suffering for four more years?
You're saying we shouldn't even try to find any way out?
MOORE: Their job is to stop the suffering that these people are going to cause. And let me tell you something, he's going to be inaugurated on January 20th and January 21st, which is a Saturday, don't be surprised if the Republicans call a Saturday session of Congress and they are going to pass law after law after law and have him sign it the next day and it's going to be one piece of suffering against people after another.
And it is the job of the Democrats now to stop the suffering that he's about to create for the American people. That is -- that is their job and they have to do it and they'd better be planning it right now...
JONES: Yes, and I'm going to tell you...
MOORE: -- instead of being the wimps that they usually are.
JONES: -- well, and this is going to be, again, here's a -- here's a messy truth for Democrats.
JONES: It's easy to say that, but when you've got to go back to a -- to a district and you've got to say we're going to turn down infrastructure and that type of stuff, it's going to be a lot tougher than that.
JONES: But (INAUDIBLE)...
MOORE: I'm not saying turn that down, I'm just saying, but they'd better know, when they go back to the district this spring, in the same way the Tea Party was there in 2009, myself and thousands like me are going to be at those town halls...
MOORE: -- in the districts in the spring.
MOORE: And we will -- and we will primary them, these Democrats...
MOORE: -- if they don't do their job.
JONES: -- yourself warned.
JONES: Consider yourself warned.
MOORE: That's the messy truth.