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Jesse Jackson, Ben Carson Debate Ferguson, Black Problems on "FOX News Sunday"

WALLACE: State execution. Reverend Jackson, how can you say that when you really have no idea what happened in that shooting?

JACKSON: Well, what I do know is he was shot, shot unarmed, and shot six times. And it's a pattern, whether it was the killing of Trayvon Martin or the killing of (inaudible), the killing of Diallo in New York, shot 41 times, the police walked away free. The Oscar Grant case in Oakland or the case of Rodney King in L.A. At some point, we require and need to meet -- we need to have a sense of justice. All we do know about Michael Brown is really he was shot unarmed six times.

WALLACE: Well, there has been a contention, the only point that I'd make, that he hit the officer in the face. And there are various unconfirmed reports about how severe that was. There is another report that he was charging at the officer. I mean I guess the question is, if we don't know, why are we declaring a verdict?

JACKSON: Well, it seems to me that the police acted as judge, jury, and executioner. And even on the worst scenario, if he had hit him in the face, does that require at a distance, I was there where he'd been shot, about 20 feet, does that mean you shoot him six times, four times at point blank range? I don't think so.

WALLACE: Dr. Carson, what do you think of what Reverend Jackson has been saying?

DR. BEN CARSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, I think the issues are really much bigger than what has been portrayed to be. And it can't be resolved in a short segment like this. But, you know, I've seen police excessive living in inner city Detroit and inner city Boston. But I've seen a lot more situations where the police saved the situation. And I'm not sure that this is a police versus black community issue.

You know, as a youngster, you know, I had anger problems also. But for the grace of God, I wouldn't be talking to you today. I tried to stab another youngster with a knife. A belt buckle saved him. You know, anger issues get in the way. And if you take race out of the issue altogether, and you take a group of young men and you raise them with no respect for authority, not learning to take on personal responsibility, having easy access to drugs and alcohol, they're very likely to end up as victims of violence or incarceration. It has nothing to do with race. So, yes, is there racism? Are there problems? Yes. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow. But we need to start looking at bigger issues here. We only have 320 million people in this country. We're on a global stage where we are competing with countries with over 1 billion people. We have to save all of our people. They are all precious. And we have to develop our resources appropriately.

WALLACE: Reverend Jackson, I wanted you to pick up and to address what Dr. Carson said. And I also want to put up some numbers. Because while the people and the protesters in Ferguson have been focusing on the police, the numbers tell a different story, which Juan Williams referred to earlier. Homicide is the number one cause of death among black males between ages 15 and 34. And 91 percent of black murder victims are not killed by the police, but are killed by other blacks. So in a sense, are the protesters focusing on the wrong problem?

JACKSON: Well, first of all, I wish Dr. Carson and I were part of that white panel that you just had because it does have a race dimension. We should all -- we -- we come by it by our experience, differently than your previous guests, number one. Number two, it seems to me that when blacks kill whites, which is rare, it's swift justice. When whites kill blacks, it's rebellion (ph), when it's black on black, there's a shrug of the shoulders as a kind of (inaudible). Guns in, drugs in, jobs out. Racial disparity and alienation and mistrust are very combustible formulas, factors.

WALLACE: And on the other hand, and let's take that into account, Dr. Carson, because I want to put up some other numbers, if we have the capability. Here we go. Ferguson is 67 percent black. But on its 53-member police force, 50 of the 53 officers are white. Only three are black. And 86 percent of traffic stops in Ferguson last year targeted blacks. Dr. Carson, you talked about the young, angry Ben Carson in Detroit. If you were a young man living in Ferguson, wouldn't that be a big problem for you?

CARSON: It would be a big problem. And people in Ferguson and in all of the cities, I think, need to get more involved in the process. What percentage of people in Ferguson voted in the last statewide election? I think you'll find it was less than 20 percent of the black community. We need to get people involved in what's going on, without question. That will make a huge difference in what goes on. And also, you know, as a young person, the thing that changed me was my mother made me read books. And I read books about people of accomplishment. And what I came to understand is that the person who has the most to do with what happens to you in life is you. It's not the environment, and it's not somebody else. Do those things play a role? They do. And if you want to focus on them, you can have a life that is completely controlled by others. But you can take control of your own life. These are messages that we must get across to people. We must re-instill the can-do attitude in America, not the what can you do for me or what have you done to me attitude.

JACKSON: Well, culture is a big factor in our behavior. But Rosa Parks was not guilty, but the law says that coloreds from the rear, and whites from the front. There's a culture here of racial harassment of black people. We have three times the unemployment rate in the country. Number one infant mortality, number one in short life expectancy, number one in unemployment. And so we cannot escape the need for something since we are talking about broadly like the (inadible) commission report where we analyzed this broadly. We were separate and not equal. Now we are free and not equal. We must have a kind of White House conference on jobs, justice and equality, I'm convinced.

WALLACE: Dr. Carson?

CARSON: Just -- first of all, Reverend Jackson, thank you for what you have done in the past, particularly during your days with Reverend Martin Luther King. I appreciate it very much. And I would have to say that we really are not on different sides of this issue. Maybe we come at it from different points of view. But I think we all want the same thing. We want people to move up in our environment, not to be satisfied and not to be dependent. And there are a lot of interconnecting parts that go with that. We're going to have to remove some of the issues that are depressing the economy so that we can create the kinds of jobs and the kinds of right situations so that people have the kinds of options that they need. We need to talk in the black community about the trillion dollars of resources that exist there and how they need to learn how to turn over dollars in our own community before we send them out to develop wealth and how to reach back and pull others up. Some of the worn-out policies of the do- gooders have not helped the community.

WALLACE: Dr. Carson, we're going to have to leave it there. Obviously, a lot more to talk about on this very big subject. And I've got to say, even with all the technical difficulties, it was worth waiting for. Dr. Carson, Reverend Jackson, thank you both so much for joining us today.

Up next, our "Power Player of the Week." We get a special look at one of Washington's biggest stars.

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