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Pat Buchanan on "Hannity & Colmes"

Hannity & Colmes

HANNITY: And welcome to HANNITY & COLMES. We're glad you're with us. I'm Sean Hannity. And we get right to our "Top Story" tonight.

Senator Barack Obama's vice presidential vetting team continues to make headlines not for their VP picks but for their resumes.

Now last week we told you about Eric Holder, who was involved in the pardon of Marc Rich. This week, former lobbyist Jim Johnson is under fire for receiving sweetheart mortgage deals from Countrywide. Now this is a company that Barack Obama himself has criticized on multiple occasions as a culprit in the mortgage crisis.

John McCain was quick to point out what he called Senator Obama's hypocrisy.


MCCAIN: Well, I think it suggests a bit of a contradiction talking about how his campaign is going to be not associated with people like that. Clearly he is very much associated with that.


HANNITY: The Obama camp -- quickly responded saying, quote, "This is an overblown story about what appear to be completely above board transactions. Barack Obama has offered a real solution to the housing crisis. Senator McCain has not."

Here with reaction is the author of his sixth consecutive "New York Times" best seller, "Churchill and Hitler, and the Unnecessary War," the great Patrick J. Buchanan.

Congratulations. Six in a row, "New York Times".

PATRICK J. BUCHANAN: Thanks you to you guys also.

That's great, that's great news.

BUCHANAN: (INAUDIBLE) 15 times with Jim Webb. We wouldn't have made it without your guys help.

HANNITY: Well, no, no, you know what? You're a good writer, great columnist and a good friend. We're glad to have you back here.

Look, you read the story about this.


HANNITY: And -- first of all, this is on top of Rezko.


HANNITY: . his friend of 20 years, not the man he knew.


HANNITY: Just like.

BUCHANAN: Let me tell you why it's a problem. The Republicans are going to make the issue -- with the economy and Iraq and all those other things, they will talk about those -- the issue is Obama.

Is Obama qualified to be president of the United States? Is he culturally, socially out of the mainstream? Can he handle foreign policy and what about this cookie, radical or corrupt or extreme associates?

HANNITY: Right. Then you answer your own question.

BUCHANAN: He's got problems there and.


BUCHANAN: Quite frankly, he's honest about it. He admits it. He says that's where Republicans are going to come after him. It's a mistake. I mean, obviously, it's a mistake to bring in these fellas. They're going to give him a problem.

HANNITY: But if we look at the Rezko issue, for example, 16-24 counts, he's found guilty.


HANNITY: He's making this land deal with Rezko's wife on the same day that they're selling off extra portions of property.


HANNITY: In this particular deal, when he was talking about Countrywide Mortgage, in particular, and the executives of Countrywide -- this is Barack Obama -- and he said, these are people who are responsible for infecting the economy and helping to create a foreclosure crisis. He said it at a town hall meeting. He personally went after the guy that this guy Johnson gave the loan to -- the CEO of.


HANNITY: . Countrywide, and excoriated him.



BUCHANAN: Right. Here's the problem for Mr. Obama is, he's Mr. Clean. He's the new politics. He's fresh. And you get something like that, you say, how fresh is this guy if he's got friends like this? These are pretty sleazy characters and they're corner cutters and all the rest of it.

So it's not good news for Barack Obama.

HANNITY: Hey, wait a moment. Hang on.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: I'll get you in a moment.


COLMES: I'll get you in one second, what do you say?

HANNITY: But wait a minute.


COLMES: Don't look at me like that.

HANNITY: This is the politics of change.

BUCHANAN: Well, these guys were not vetted well, quite frankly, and look, this is a problem. You've got Barack Obama. Nobody knows about -- in West Virginia, the one thing they knew about Barack Obama was a fellow named Jeremiah Wright was his pastor.

HANNITY: Yes. Yes.

BUCHANAN: And if that's what they know of him -- that's why he's got to define himself before the Republicans do it. This is hardball politics, there is no doubt about this.

HANNITY: But let me ask you this.

BUCHANAN: McCain jumping in on this.

HANNITY: But Senator McCain has been reluctant. He's been resistant. He attacked the North Carolina Republican Party for doing this.


HANNITY: Now if he is not willing to take on Barack Obama -- he wasn't listening to Barack's speech the other night.


HANNITY: Because Barack said, yes, I admire John McCain, and then, bam, bam, it was one shot after another he's fired away.

BUCHANAN: What Barack Obama is doing is what Kerry failed to do, and say, if you hit me, and you'll get, you know, two shots right back. And Barack Obama is doing a good job in that.

COLMES: Yes, he's hitting back.

Well, Pat, look.


COLMES: First of all, let's talk some of his associations. John McCain's got problems along the same lines.

John Green, his chief liaison to Congress, Wayne Burman, his national finance co-chair, they both lobbied for Ameriquest, which has since been bought out.


BUCHANAN: Your problem is you got to read into these things because there's so.

COLMES: Well, I'm not reading. I'm telling you.


COLMES: No, no. He's got lobbyist problem.


COLMES: John McCain says.

BUCHANAN: I agree with.

COLMES: . I'm not going to be involved with lobbyists. You got these people who did lobbying for Ameriquest, one of the key companies involved with the mortgage falling.


BUCHANAN: OK. Well, let me tell you, his larger problem.


BUCHANAN: . I think is the foreign lobbyists who associated with the campaign who are much better known. I agree with you there.



COLMES: But these are his key advisers. And the fact is, if he wants to go after Obama because of his associations.

BUCHANAN: Obama should go after him.

COLMES: . then John McCain is going to answer for that stuff, doesn't it?

BUCHANAN: Exactly. The press and Obama should go after him, exactly. I have no problem with that.

COLLINS: Yes, all right, well, so it's fair -- don't they cancel each other out, though? If you're going to go after Obama because of some alleged.

BUCHANAN: No, the.

COLMES: . ties that a friend of his has.

BUCHANAN: No. I'll tell you why they don't cancel each other out.

Well, obviously, with John McCain, we all know him. He's been around 30 years, he's a vet, POW. He's been on the Hill. He had trouble in the Keating matter.


BUCHANAN: . all those things. We know him. People trust him or do not trust him.

Obama is brand new. And when he comes rolling in with these exotic, strange characters like Rezko -- I mean, Rezko, what's that property deal?

COLMES: But wait a minute. There was no evidence of any false or anything illicit happened with Rezko. He bought something at fair market value. He (INAUDIBLE). No, that's true. You can laugh all you want.

BUCHANAN: He bought a big slice of land right next.

COLMES: He bought a partially -- bought one-sixth or one.

HANNITY: On the same day.

COLMES: For one-sixth of the price of what he paid for it.

BUCHANAN: Yes, what is he going to do with it? He's going to develop it? He gave it Obama.

COLMES: He didn't give to him. He paid one-sixth of the cost of it, which is.


COLMES: He paid literally a proportional amount of what the cost.

BUCHANAN: And yet he get the wives working into the deal. Come on, Alan.

COLMES: But Pat, he gave that proportion of the amount of what it cost.


BUCHANAN: What happened to the -- what's that famous detector? What's that famous detector people are.

COLMES: I don't know but.

HANNITY: I know it is.

COLMES: But wait a minute, you guys -- you want to go after him on this stuff, it doesn't flush out when you actually look at the actual numbers. He didn't get a deal on that land.

BUCHANAN: Look, he admitted he made a mistake in the Rezko thing. I agree with you. There was no evidence of a quid pro quo.

COLMES: Right.

BUCHANAN: But you did just say? Why is he hanging around with Rezko? Everybody knew about him.

COLMES: He wasn't hanging around. He bought a sixth of a piece -- parcel of property for a sixth of what the original price was. No quid pro quo there.

BUCHANAN: What do you think Obama thought when he said, hey, your friend Tony Rezko is buying the land next door?

COLLINS: He'd probably.

BUCHANAN: Do you think he knew nothing about it?

COLMES: Well, he probably, as he has said, he shouldn't have done about Rezko. But there was no quid pro quo. He didn't get a financial benefit.

BUCHANAN: I didn't say it was a quid pro quo.


BUCHANAN: Why would you have a guy like this buying something and then you're cutting a deal. Again.


COLMES: You know the American public. You ran for president. You know what people.


COLMES: Are the American public going to go, hey, you know, I can't vote for this guy, he knew -- Tony Rezko? I can't vote for this, I look at his preacher? Is that really going to affect Barack Obama?

BUCHANAN: Oh yes. I think, quite frankly, Barack Obama's problem -- and really this is it -- is that he's brand new, and a lot of people in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania, we saw it, perceived him as outside the mainstream culturally and socially and also on foreign policies.

What's he going to talk.

COLMES: And what about the new people he's bringing in to the voting process who are probably going to be voting for the first time for Barack Obama?

BUCHANAN: Well, that's a tremendous asset. But you're asking me what his problem.


BUCHANAN: He said himself his problem is the perception he's not in the mainstream.


BUCHANAN: And the Republicans will go after and they will and.

COLMES: And he'll fight back.

BUCHANAN: . Alan Colmes knows it.

COLMES: And he'll fight back.

BUCHANAN: Alan Colmes knows it.

COLMES: I love the Pat Buchanan finger point right there.

More with Pat Buchanan right after the break.

And coming up, eye-witnesses describe an uncomfortable confrontation between senators Obama and Lieberman right on the Senate floor. What happened to trigger the altercation? And we'll tell you.

Plus we're going to get a reaction from Dick Morris coming up.


COLMES: We now continue with the author of "Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War."

Pat Buchanan, in this book, you talk about how -- at the end of the book about how you're worried we are going down the same path with the British Empire did. And if we continue down this path, we may have the same fate the British Empire did.

BUCHANAN: That's exactly right. And what I do I praise is presidents like Eisenhower and Reagan who simply drew a line across the (INAUDIBLE) River and told the Soviets don't cross it, and built up our forces and they did not cross us, as against Churchill and the Brits who, you know, declared war themselves twice on Germany and went to war.

But I think you're right. I think, with due respect, President Bush and others -- they've got this attitude of preemptive war, and what Bismarck called -- Bismarck said that's like committing suicide out of fear of death.

And I think the idea of preemptive war against nations unless they're imminently about to attack you is an unwise policy.

COLMES: You see any evidence that John McCain will have a different policy other than stay the course and status quo other than what George Bush is doing?

BUCHANAN: Well, as I said, I may be wrong. I said John McCain could make Dick Cheney look like Gandhi. But you know.

COLMES: Really?

BUCHANAN: I wouldn't want any downtown property in Tehran if he's president.

I really think, if you get McCain in there, quite frankly, and you get Bibi Netanyahu in Israel, I would be -- I would bet on some kind of conflict with Iran.

COLMES: Really?

BUCHANAN: I think if Iran does not give up the enrichment of uranium, that John McCain has made that -- he has made that his red line, I would certainly negotiate with the Iranians to stop them from doing that, but if they don't stop, I mean -- you see McCain, the Iran footage of him -- I think McCain would do something. Don't you?

HANNITY: Oh yes.

COLMES: Isn't that against the Pat Buchanan philosophies, where you would go and what you would do?


HANNITY: Not necessarily.

COLMES: And who does Pat Buchanan then support in the upcoming presidential race?

BUCHANAN: Well, I mean -- I'm -- a major matter of concern to me is the Supreme Court. We've got two pair on there right now. One more we got a full house, Alan.


BUCHANAN: And I think with McCain you're going to try that.

COLMES: You want to lean all the way to the right?

BUCHANAN: No, no. You know what I'd like to do? Get the Supreme Court out of making decisions about social, cultural matters and the politicians you and I elect, they should make them. And if you don't like them, you can throw them out next time.


BUCHANAN: I can throw them out. You don't want them handed down by these judges -- a judicial dictatorship, which is what we're living under.

COLMES: Are you going to stay -- with a McCain presidency, you think he'll appoint constitutionalists? You think.

BUCHANAN: I believe he'll appoint constitutionalists. And what a good question you might want to ask him is president -- would President McCain appoint a justice who would overturn McCain-Lieberman? That's the key.


BUCHANAN: Or McCain-Feingold, rather. McCain-Feingold.

HANNITY: All legislate from the bench.

I think one of the biggest issues in this campaign now people are sick and tired of paying $4.50 a gallon.


HANNITY: You know what's amazing? I'm reading from the "Wall Street Journal" here. Fifteen percent of the cost of gasoline -- every time you go to the pump -- that goes to the government.


HANNITY: Only 4 percent goes to those big evil oil companies that these.


HANNITY: . sanctimonious senators were grilling, but at least they explore. They extract the crude.


HANNITY: They bring it to their refineries and deliver a product.

BUCHANAN: That is why it is -- I mean windfall profit tax, whatever they call it, is so stupid.


BUCHANAN: Why would you mean -- look, if you want somebody to explore for oil and find it, you want -- I would give the oil companies incentives to go out and do that and build refineries and things like that. But if you take away their capital, people won't contribute more capital. How do you find more oil?

HANNITY: But McCain is against drilling in ANWR? Think it is one of the biggest mistakes of his platform. And if he doesn't take -- if he doesn't understand people want lower prices and the best way we can do is to tap our own resources.

BUCHANAN: You know, Sean -- you know, when I was in Nixon White House, we -- said we need to build that pipeline. People said the caribou are finished if you do that. The caribou are all hanging out.

HANNITY: Pipe holds.

BUCHANAN: They're all hanging out.

HANNITY: They all hanging out at the pipe.


BUCHANAN: It's warm, it's warm there, right.

HANNITY: Let me look at the record of Barack Obama here. He's called for -- not only the windfall profit tax on oil companies that we talk about, he's called for a tax on oil and natural gas. He's called for higher income taxes, higher Social Security taxes, higher corporate taxes, massive new domestic.

BUCHANAN: Higher capital gains taxes.

HANNITY: Double the capital gains taxes.

BUCHANAN: Well, here's the thing. I think that Barack Obama is going to have to pull back from that, A, for political reasons, because I don't it'll work and it will hurt him on the economic issue. Secondly, you cannot raise taxes like that in -- on an economy which is headed downhill.

HANNITY: It's slowing down.

BUCHANAN: It's the first -- I mean the first principle of economics.

HANNITY: All right. So here's what my question is. Why aren't the Republicans -- what has happened to them? Why aren't they standing on the Capitol Hill steps saying, as Newt has been saying, drill here, drill now and pay less?

Why aren't they saying no more earmarks? Why aren't they saying secure the borders now and get the fence bill? Why aren't the Republicans saying, we're not going to negotiate with Ahmadinejad? Why aren't they comparing and contrasting?

BUCHANAN: Well, you know, take the border and the amnesty. John McCain was on summary other side of amnesty. What's that, McCain-Kennedy?

HANNITY: McCain-Kennedy.

BUCHANAN: McCain-Kennedy. And this is a problem a lot of conservatives are demoralized and why the Evangelicals and others are unenthusiastic, and if McCain loses, that'll be the reason. He didn't rally the base.

He -- I mean he's got to do two things. He ought to tally the base and go after the Hillary Democrats who are formerly Reagan Democrats. All those folks in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky. They all voted for Ronald Reagan.

HANNITY: But you think he can -- you think he can pull it off.

BUCHANAN: I think.

HANNITY: . but he's get more aggressive?

BUCHANAN: I think John McCain can still win this election. But I think he's -- as I said the other day on another network -- take Churchill's line, take away this footing, it has no theme.


BUCHANAN: One day we're talking about Kyoto, the next day we're talking about judges.

HANNITY: All right. Good to see you. Congrats on the book.

BUCHANAN: Thank you very much.

HANNITY: Six "New York Times" best sellers in a row, Patrick J. Buchanan.

BUCHANAN: Thank you very much.

COLMES: Thank you, Pat.

BUCHANAN: Thank you, my friend

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