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Dick Morris & Lanny Davis on "Hannity & Colmes"

Hannity & Colmes

COLMES: Welcome to HANNITY & COLMES. Get right to our top story tonight. There were two big developments today both involving the Clintons. First, Bill Clinton gave an interview this morning which he once again defended his behavior on the campaign trail in South Carolina. He said he was never personally attacking Barack Obama.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everything I have said has been factually accurate. I think the mistake that I made is to think that I was a spouse like any other spouse who could defend his candidate. I think I can promote Hillary but not defend her because I was president. I have to let her defend herself or have someone else defend her. But a lot of things that were said were factually inaccurate. I did not ever criticize Senator Obama personally in South Carolina. I have never criticized him personally.


COLMES: The Clinton campaign threatened to pull out of an upcoming debate on NBC after NBC NEWS man David Shuster said yesterday that the campaign is pimping out Chelsea Clinton.


SHUSTER: There is just something a little bit unseemly to me that Chelsea is out there calling up celebrities saying support my mom and also apparently she is also calling the super delegates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, she is working for her mom. What's unseemly about that? Michelle Obama is out there for her husband.

SHUSTER: Doesn't it seem like Chelsea is sort of being pimped out in some weird sort of way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. If she didn't want to be there, she wouldn't be there. Give Chelsea a break.


COLMES: Shuster has since apologized and NBC NEWS has suspended him. But the Clinton campaign says NBC NEWS is guilty of a pattern of this kind of behavior. We're going to have a lot more on the NBC NEWS issue a bit later in the show.

But joining us now is former Clinton advisor Dick Morris. And to keep up to date with the presidential race get Dick's column and newsletters for free, log on to

DICK MORRIS, FORMER CLINTON ADVISOR: And get the anti-Hillary movie that now has a relevance, unfortunately.

COLMES: Anti-Hillary? Why would do you that? Why would you do such a thing?

MORRIS: Sometimes I would.

COLMES: I'm amazed. Let's do some analysis. Let's do some fair and balanced analysis of the situation.

MORRIS: Well, I am coming increasingly to the conclusion that Obama has the advantage right now. When you can't be sure is he going to win. You can't predict that yet, but he has the edge.

If you take away the super delegates, they are only about three delegates apart. It's 893 to 889. And so they are about even. And the key thing is that Obama was shown to be extraordinarily effective where there were not many immigrant voters and not many Latino voters.

And Hillary, when you look at the exit polls, did well among immigrants, Asians and Latinos. That's why she carried California, Nevada, Arizona, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and very little in between.

Where as Obama carried just a raft of states, Utah, Idaho, Missouri, Colorado, North Dakota, Kansas, Alabama, Georgia, Alaska, Montana and I believe that what that says is that you have a sort of immigrant first generation affection for the Clinton administration for what they did in NAFTA and what the FALN and tequila crisis in Mexico and Hispaniola in Haiti that's creating residual affection by immigrants and it's kind of a carryover of the name.

But I think that when you actually get down to what the next primaries are composed of, they are more likely to be Obama states. So what I think is going to happen on Saturday is I think you are going to see Obama maybe coming out with a 20 delegate lead and then 40 and then 60 and eventually it is going to be a significant lead.

COLMES: The upcoming caucuses seem to lean Obama, but then you have Ohio, you have Pennsylvania, you have Wisconsin and those are up for grabs. They are not as purely Obama as you are suggesting.

MORRIS: Well, if he won in Minnesota, he is probably going to win Wisconsin. He's as popular as is he in Illinois, even though he's from there. It gives him an Indiana and Ohio.

And I have a further thought. I think that in Texas where everybody can vote in the Democratic primary that's completely open, Republicans can, too. With McCain not being in jeopardy, and with that being basically over, I think you are going to see droves of white Republicans going in to the Democratic primary to oppose Hillary.

And I think that it will become almost like a general election in Texas. And I think that when you put all of that together, you're very likely to come to a situation where Obama outdoes Hillary by 200 or 300 delegates.

Now the super delegates are for Hillary. But I don't think they would dare vote against the professed will of the elected delegates.

And then my final point is that Obama prepared for a long war, Hillary for a short one. So Obama got these small Internet donors who are able to give and give and give. Hillary went for the money and she got a lot of maxed out donors and packs. And now Obama is able to push his mouse and get 30 million bucks. And I think now he has a big financial edge over Hillary.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I want to talk about that because that's made a lot of news here. Among the news we found out this week is that Hillary is not paying her staff. They quickly have run out there to say, "Oh, we are paying them again. Oh we're raising money." She is loaning money to her campaign. She is being outraised by Obama two to one as you point out. He can raise $30 million on a dime so it seems two months in a row. When the final delegate count came in on Super Tuesday, it was Barack who won. Not Hillary in spite of the news coverage and he won 13-8 states. This is not insignificant. Nobody would have predicted this at this point.

MORRIS: Absolutely true. And you've got to realize that the Clintons have like never paid for a vacation. They try -- they almost never pay for a meal. So for her to lend $5 million to her campaign.

HANNITY: Desperation.

COLMES: She raised the money.

HANNITY: Excuse me.

MORRIS: I think the point is that Obama really was smart about the way he went at it. At the beginning it seemed that they were basically even on money. But because Obama has 47 percent of his donors gave under $200 and only 17 percent are maxed out, whereas with Hillary it's the other way around, half are maxed out, he can resolicit and resolicit and resolicit and she can't.

HANNITY: He even mentioned that in fact his donors are giving $50 and $100 at a time. He is also putting Hillary on the defensive, earlier today urging Hillary to release her tax records.

But more specifically, I want to ask you about the comments that we just aired at the beginning here and that is from Bill Clinton. He has been a big part of this campaign. It is interesting, he wants to admit he made a -- I think I made a mistake, you know, I went after his spouse but I'm not like anybody else. I'm a former president is the way he sort of -- I risk being misquoted. I risk being the story. I don't want to be the story. But yet the A.P. counted that one time in a 10-minute time period, he mentioned himself 85 times and her five.

MORRIS: Clinton has ADD. When he doesn't get enough attention, he is disordered. So he needs that attention. But I think that Bill, as he approaches this, has to come to grips with the fact that the racial strategy that they embarked on as I said on this show they would embark on didn't work because there aren't a lot of blacks in Idaho and Utah and North Dakota. And basically with Obama carrying all of those states, it's evident that this is not an African-American candidate.

HANNITY: The Democrats have telegraphed their strategy how they are going to go after Senator McCain. I want to get your reaction whether you think it would be effective. When we get back, we'll have more with Dick Morris coming up right after the break.

And then Clinton supporter Lanny Davis weighs in on Hillary's chances in this weekend's all important primaries and caucuses. Plus, we are going to see if he can set the record straight on all of her fundraising questions.


SHUSTER: For raising such a poised and self-possessed young woman. Now shy of her 28th birthday, Chelsea she is out and about on her mom's behalf.




B. CLINTON: I will not be in the cabinet. I will not be on the staff full time. I will not in any way interfere with the work of a strong vice president and a strong secretary of state, strong secretary of treasury. I will do what we have always done for each other. I will let her bounce ideas off of me. I will tell her what I think and we will talk through things.


HANNITY: That was more of Bill Clinton's interview with the "Today Show." And we continue now with former Clinton advisor, Dick Morris is back with us. The Democrats are telegraphing now how they will are going to attack Senator McCain. Howard Dean said earlier today, he called McCain a media darling. He said warning from Iraq to health care, Social Security, special tax cuts, to ethics, he is promising nothing more than a third Bush term. Others on the Democratic blog have suggested they will go after his fitness, temperament for office. Hillary ripped McCain on the stimulus package.

MORRIS: Excuse me, sometimes politics did he sends into the level of humor. Can you imagine Hillary running against somebody because they lose their temper?

HANNITY: You know her better than me.

MORRIS: I mean, my god.

HANNITY: His attacks quote this is a Bush third term.

MORRIS: I never threw her a lamp.

HANNITY: All right, touch,. Let me ask this, because there has been so much we have discussed this week about conservatives. And you told me you had listened to my radio show earlier here today.

It's very interesting to me. It seems like McCain supporters, everyone that's rushed to the front late in the game to support Senator McCain, I would argue some of them want favor, they want access. They want to be invited to the White House and the parties. But as a conservative I like Senator McCain, I want to hear more. I want to hear him build on the CPAC speech. And I want more promises, concessions that he's not going to lean toward Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold past legislation.

MORRIS: I want him to the opposite. I want him to beat Hillary.

HANNITY: I want him to beat Hillary.

MORRIS: And as far as I'm concerned, the best way to do that is to be the -- the Democrats' favorite Republican.

HANNITY: I'm a Reagan. Bold colors, no pale pastels.

MORRIS: I think that his advantage is that if Hillary wins the nomination, the Obama vote is not necessarily going to go to Hillary. If you have a guy who is from the liberal point of view, good on global warming, good on torture, good on campaign finance reform.

HANNITY: Every time you say good, I say wrong, I disagree.

MORRIS: He will get a lot of the Obama vote and he can win the election. So my advice to him is to move to the center, not to the right.

HANNITY: That is your M.O. and that was what helped get Bill Clinton elected. But let me ask you this. This is an important question here because there seems to be a bad approach that is being taken by the people around Senator McCain and his latent supporters now, and they are attacking myself, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Talk Radio.

And what they are saying is we are serving as the liberal media. I have been on the air 20 years, Dick, expressing viewpoints. And they are basically saying I should change my mind and just accept the party line right now and not challenge and stand up for my principles. Do they really expect that from principled people like myself?

MORRIS: Can't they understand the primary is over? We have a nominee? The alternative is her?

HANNITY: That's a good point.

HANNITY: And understand and unite. I can tell you something, Sean. Attacking the base, is that a good idea?


MORRIS: I got scared to death because you were dumping on McCain.

HANNITY: I was not dumping on McCain.

MORRIS: I hope not and I came here and I said, I want you in that trench with me this fall.

HANNITY: I'm leading the Stop Hillary Express.

COLMES: Let me just straighten a couple of things out. This thing about her loaning money to her campaign. That was a one day story. She then raises $6.5 million on the Internet. People flooded with money. So people hang on to this idea that she can't pay her staff, which is not true. They are now getting paid. So, let's, you know, put it in perspective. That's not what happened.

MORRIS: The proper perspective is to understand that in January, including her own 5 million raised $13.5 and Obama raised $32.

COLMES: Right, that's correct.

MORRIS: And in the first week of February, Obama also tripled her output.

COLMES: Right.

MORRIS: But what worries me is not the $5 million. It's where it came from.

COLMES: Do you have any evidence to know where it came from?

MORRIS: Well let me first explain what I think and then you ask me if I have evidence.

COLMES: Write it out for me so I know what to say.

MORRIS: The Clintons were in debt when they left office and he is giving speeches and he wrote memoirs. But a large portion of his income, an undisclosed income comes from Dubai, the emir of Dubai. Ron Merkel, the supermarket guy and Bill set up a partisanship to manage Dubai's assets. It was reported in the "Wall Street Journal" three weeks ago that Clinton wanted a $20-million-dollar buyout from that deal.

If he got the $20-million-dollar buyout and took five of it and Hillary put it into the campaign, that was money laundering. It was taking the emir's money, parking in his bank account and then passing it on.

COLMES: This is all if. You have got to let the other person speak too.

MORRIS: We can't, because she's won't release her tax returns.

COLMES: The fact of the matter is, and according to Howard Wilson, who I'm sure you will discount with your back of your hand, whatever money she is putting in the campaign is coming from her income, not his. She made $7 million on her book. You have no evidence that her own money.

MORRIS: Alan, are you serious? She made $7 million from the book.

COLMES: That's correct.

MORRIS: She lives in the United States. She pays 40 percent taxes on it. She lives off of it. She makes $200,000 a year in the Senate and from that she gave $5 million from her campaign? What, does she dress in a barrel?

COLMES: You have no evidence of that. You know what? You are just mean-spirited. You really are. You really are. You can sit and laugh and I'm sure you are proud of yourself.

MORRIS: Come on, $7 million plus $1.4 million, 8.4 at a 40 percent tax bracket is $4.5 million. She didn't operate -- she doesn't dress she just gave $5 million whatsoever.


COLMES: You're doing this all in speculation because of your blind hatred for the Clintons. This is my read.


HANNITY: Go to it, we're waiting, go.

COLMES: I talk too much? Is that what you are saying? Where did I learn it? Thank you, Dick for being here.

With Clinton and Obama in a dead heat, the next round of primaries well they matter more than ever. We will give you a preview and tell you why things aren't looking good, some say, for Hillary Clinton.


H. CLINTON: Thank you so much. Hello way back there.



COLMES: When Mitt Romney gives $35 million of his own money to keep his campaign going and after one day all the money pours into Hillary Clinton because of how well she did on Super Tuesday.

LANNY DAVIS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Let me be real shocked. There is a double standard applied to the Clinton campaign. Let me be shocked twice. Everybody thinks she is in trouble. Remember before New Hampshire? Remember California and all the polls closing? How about Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Governor Deval Patrick endorsing her in Massachusetts and she wins in Massachusetts?

How about the fact that every big state she comes back off the mat and she wins. She is going to do very well through the weekend and Senator Obama is a great candidate and we are going to have two great candidates going down to the finish line. Don't count Hillary out.

The big states are the way Democrats win the White House. And she has got Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas. She has won New Jersey and New York and California. No Democrat, Alan, has ever been nominated in the history of our party without carrying New York and California in the primaries.

COLMES: By the way, I want to make it clear. I happen to like Barack Obama very much.

DAVIS: So do I.

COLMES: I'd love to see a ticket with both of them on it. I just can't stand the visceral hatred that people have for the Clintons and for Hillary. It is out of control and there is a blind spot that some people it seems can't see what's going on here.

DAVIS: Look, disagreeing on issues is great. It's great for our party when Obama and Senator Clinton disagree on issues. But having personal hatred as a reason for being against someone as I think your prior guest, we all know, has that personal hatred -- diminishes from his intelligence and takes away from the debate.

HANNITY: Hey, you what Lanny? Dick is not here to defend himself. He has a different opinion than you and that doesn't make -- that's not fair to characterize that it's hate. He knows them and is he telling the truth as you sees it. You are a Clinton sycophant as is Alan. Alan loves him.

COLMES: You love somebody, you're a sycophant?


HANNITY: Here is a reality you didn't tell, Lanny. She lost 13-8 on states on Super Tuesday. She lost the delegate count. She is losing the fundraising battle. She couldn't for a while pay her own staff. Michelle Obama doesn't like her so much that she said she would have to think about even voting for her about her policies, her approach, her tone.

Obama says that they'll have a dump truck, Republicans to dump on Hillary. So, you know what? This is not just Republicans. She is being rejected by John Kerry and Pat Leahy and Ted Kennedy and the leadership of your party. Deal with that, Lanny.

DAVIS: I don't think you like, Hillary. I think I'm getting that impression.

HANNITY: No Lanny, your party doesn't like her. Ted Kennedy doesn't like her.

DAVIS: May I respond?

HANNITY: Go ahead.

DAVIS: Because I think you had a good chair there. First of all, I do agree with you, Dick Morris is entitled to his opinion and I completely agree with you. I think he would agree that he doesn't like Hillary Clinton on a personal level. That's all I'm saying as a fact.

HANNITY: He knows her.

DAVIS: Right now I don't care what lineup you say. We won and surprised everybody in California. We won in New Jersey. We won in Massachusetts. We won in red states, Tennessee and Oklahoma where I think we got to show some strength.

HANNITY: Lanny, you are the best spinner in the world. You are good but, Lanny, she got her clock cleaned on Tuesday.

DAVIS: Her clock cleaned?

HANNITY: She lost the delegate count. She won the big states and the bottom line is if anybody would have predicted this when the coronation was supposed to take place, the Clintons were unbeatable -- the greatest political duo in the history of the world. And you know what? She is in the fight for her life. And her own party, the establishment is rejecting her one leader after another day after day.

DAVIS: I don't know what facts you are looking at.

HANNITY: Let me tell you the facts. Does Ted Kennedy hate Clinton? Does john Kerry hate Clinton?

DAVIS: Do you want to let me any chance to talk tonight?

HANNITY: Go ahead.

DAVIS: She has a majority of the United States senators who have endorsed her. She won in California and in Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry's backyard. And the states that you add up that Barack Obama won and give him credit, Idaho, Utah and North Dakota are not exactly states that are ever going to vote Democratic as opposed to California and we have the two senators in Washington.

HANNITY: Lanny, we love you.

DAVIS: We have a great candidate in both Obama and Hillary.

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