BIDEN: I'm not worried about that at all. We will draw down along the timeline we suggested.

The president went for two reasons: one, to demonstrate to the troops his -- it shouldn't surprise anybody who -- he was in Turkey, that he would take the time to go there; but secondly, also to meet with Maliki.

And one of the things the president has said from the beginning is in addition to us drawing down troops, Wolf, it was necessary for there to be further political accommodation between the Sunnis, Shia, and the Kurds.

And I'm sure that's going to be one of the messages he is going to be delivering and discussing with Prime Minister Maliki.

BLITZER: We'll know the situation in Iraq is really working when a president of the United States won't have to go secretly to Baghdad, will be able to announce he is going on an official visit to Baghdad as if he's going to Istanbul or Paris or London, now when is that going to happen?

BIDEN: Well, that's not going to happen for, I suspect, several years. The process is sort of a two-step here. We're handing over responsibility to Iraqis in a timely fashion and drawing down our

troops, handing over those responsibilities to the Iraqis.

But it's not ultimately going to happen until there's a political accommodation. And that's still -- and that's up to the Iraqis. And -- but I hope that happens within several years.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Mr. Vice President, during the campaign you said this: "Mark my words, it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy." Was North Korea that test?

BIDEN: Well, look, there has been a number of tests, just like there was for George Bush and every president gets tested. What I probably should have said was "like every other president."

And, you know, the test is not so much -- first of all, the good news is the test failed. The test that -- the North Koreans launching their missile, the third stage failed. So they're not going to be a very reliable seller to anybody who would want to buy their missiles.

But I think that you're going to see more "tests" in the sense that the world has changed. They're not testing Barack Obama per se. The world is just presenting every new president with new circumstances they never anticipated would be on the plate.

And, look, for example, during the Bush administration, there were tests. They -- you know, the North Koreas detonated a nuclear weapon. They had a nuclear test. So, you know, it occurs in every administration.

BLITZER: So is it just talk, the reaction, the response, condemnation, or is there...

BIDEN: No, no, no...

BLITZER: ... going to be something practical?

BIDEN: ... no. I think it has got to be much more than that, Wolf. Look, the big difference now is the world knows that we have gone out of our way to set up a circumstance where there could be a real negotiation in the six-party talks with North Korea.

Unlike before where the policy was regime change, every time the North Koreans acted erratically, which is their behavior pattern, not only were they condemned, but the United States was condemned because we indirectly got blowback.

We'd say, 'if it wasn't for our policy of regime change, this wouldn't have happened,' et cetera.

This exposes the fact that we have been so rational and responsible in this regard. This puts pressure on the Chinese, on the Russians, on the Japanese, on the rest of the world to be more forceful.

North Korea is not only a threat to the United States of America, it's a greater threat to the region.

BORGER: So what do you want to see?

BIDEN: What I'd like to see is a strong condemnation and a united effort on the part of the Chinese, Russians in the six-party talks to say, enough is enough, there will be greater sanctions, we will squeeze down even harder on North Korea.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: What else is there to do?

BIDEN: Well, China...

BLITZER: It's so isolated already.

BIDEN: Well, China could do a great deal more. China...

BLITZER: You think China will?

BIDEN: Well, that's a different question. That's a different question. I think this puts the onus on China and Russia and South Korea and Japan, et cetera, along with us, to be bolder in our condemnation.

BORGER: But let's talk about your predecessor for a moment, if I might. Former Vice President Cheney took a big swipe at your foreign policies -- this administration's foreign policies.

And he told John King of CNN recently that President Obama's actions all over the world have made us less safe. Was Dick Cheney out of line?

BIDEN: I don't think he is out of line, but he is dead wrong. This administration -- the last administration left us in a weaker posture than we've been any time since World War II: less regarded in the world, stretched more thinly than we ever have been in the past, two wars under way, virtually no respect in entire parts of the world.

And so we've been about the business of repairing and strengthening those. I guarantee you we are safer today, our interests are more secure today than they were any time during the eight years...

BORGER: So we are more safe?

BIDEN: We are more safe. We are more secure. Our interests are more secure, not just at home, but around the world. We are rebuilding America's ability to lead.

And I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office, and he was a great guy, enjoyed being with him. He said to me, he said, well, Joe, he said, I'm a leader. And I said, Mr. President, turn around and look behind you. No one's following. People are beginning to follow the United States again as a consequence of our administration.

BLITZER: What are you doing differently as vice president as compared to Dick Cheney?

BIDEN: Well, I think the biggest thing we're doing is, I'm operating in concert with the president. There are not - there are - look, everybody talks about how powerful Cheney was. His power weakened America, in my view. Here's what I mean by that. What I mean by that was, there was a divided government. There was Cheney and his own sort of separate national security agency, and then there was the National Security Agency. There was Powell, who didn't agree with Cheney, and Cheney off with Rumsfeld.

I mean, there was a divided government, a divided administration. The strength of this administration is that the president and I work in concert. I am very straightforward in my views. I am as strong - I hold them as strongly as I ever have. But they're done in the context of one National Security Agency, a united national security team.

BORGER: Well, let me ask you about that, because there was a report in "The New York Times" last week about some disagreements within this administration. Let me just quote you what "The Times" wrote, which is that "President Obama's plan to widen the United States's involvement in Afghanistan came after an internal debate in which Vice President Joe Biden warned against getting into a political and military quagmire while military advisers argued that the Afghanistan war efforts could be imperiled without even more troops."

BIDEN: Well, look. Without commenting specifically on who took what position, there was a healthy debate. There is a healthy debate within our administration. But you may remember, I remember you asking me, Wolf, when I went to Afghanistan and Pakistan while I was still senator, prior to being sworn in as vice president. Wasn't that an unusual thing to do?

The reason I went is because I suggested to the president-elect at the time that I should go and come back with a baseline, tell him exactly where I thought we were relative to our position in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as well as Iraq, and that we needed a clear, precise strategy. What came out of that debate that took place, and there was a debate inside. There always is.

BORGER: Well, where were you? I mean, with transparency?

BIDEN: I'm not going to comment on where...

BLITZER: Were you concerned that "The New York Times" said that there could be a quagmire?

BIDEN: No. Here's what I was concerned about, and we've settled it. And that is that we have a clear, coherent objective. The president, for the first time, stated that our objective is to rout out al Qaeda and to prevent the growth of radical extremist organizations using either Afghanistan or Pakistan as a base from which to attack the United States of America. That is our objective. Now we put in place a policy that backed that up with troops and/or civilians as to how to accomplish that purpose. And so, there is total agreement on the present policies.

BLITZER: Is Afghanistan now President Obama's war?

BIDEN: President Obama and I inherited a war in Afghanistan that was very badly handled. And so, in the sense that we're trying to in a sense repair it and be able to lead by leaving behind a country that is not controlled and/or occupied by al Qaeda, it is our responsibility we inherited. So, in that sense, we inherited a responsibility we have to deal with.

BORGER: But let me ask you, it's a sort of a question of semantics here, because Secretary of State Clinton said last week that the administration has officially stopped using the phrase "global war on terror." Why is that? Aren't we still in a global war on terror?

BIDEN: No, no. We are - and I didn't hear her say that. I don't doubt you. I'm sure she said that, and it reflects our policy. Look, under the rubric of a global war on terror, we ended up in a series of policies that made no sense and made us weaker, in my view and the view of the president of the United States. And so, what we decided to do is look at things in their discrete - as discrete problems. Here you have a situation. It is not a global war on terror in Iraq. The problem we have in Iraq now is leaving behind a government where Sunnis, Kurds and Shia get along, where they can share power and be stable, not a threat to their neighbors and secure in their own boundaries.

Conversely, in the FATA, the eastern part of - or the western part of Pakistan in the mountains on the Afghan border, that is a war on terror. That's where al Qaeda lives. That's where bin Laden is. That's where the most radicalized part of the Taliban is. The situation we have as it relates to problems that exist in other parts of the world, they aren't all related to terror.

BLITZER: So, is there still a global war on terror?

BIDEN: There is a war on terror. Terror is a legitimate threat. It is a threat that comes from al Qaeda and those organizations that have morphed off of al Qaeda, but there are other interests we have beyond merely - for example, the situation in the Middle East is not a global war on terror. But it matters to us mightily whether or not we end up with an accommodation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and...

BLITZER: I want to get to that, but I want to press you on this point, because in Afghanistan right now, the president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, has signed into law an edict in effect allowing men to rape their wives if they don't want to have sex on that day. And a lot of people are outraged that a U.S. ally like Hamid Karzai, who announced that he's looking at this law, could go forward. Is this what U.S. troops are fighting and dying for in Afghanistan?

BIDEN: It is an outrageous, an outrageous, outrageous law, number one. Number two, we are not in Afghanistan, to make the point, to see to it that we make everything right in Afghanistan. Why are we in Afghanistan? This is the difference between us and the last administration. We're there to defeat al Qaeda.

BLITZER: And the Taliban.

BIDEN: And the Taliban

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: No, no, no, let's get straight. The Taliban that presents an international threat to the United States of America. The bulk of the Taliban, the phrase that Richard Holbrooke and I have been using, separately but similarly, 5 percent of the Taliban are radicalized Islamists that are no different than al Qaeda.

BORGER: But wouldn't you use your leverage that you have on an issue like this, which you call outrageous, the president himself has said is abhorrent?

BIDEN: Yes, but that's not -- I am not prepared to send American troops to die for that.

BORGER: OK.

BIDEN: I am prepared to send American troops to protect the United States of America to kill al Qaeda, to root out extremists and to prevent them being able to use Afghanistan once again as a platform to attack the United States of America. Do we find it abhorrent that that law exists or that it's being considered? Absolutely, positively. But we also find abhorrent what's going on in China in some places. We find abhorrent a lot of things. But the question is, if that were the only thing that existed, would we send my son and other sons there to risk their lives to die? I don't think that is a legitimate use ...

BLITZER: Now that you have access to the presidential daily brief...

BIDEN: Yes.

BLITZER: ... the most sensitive classified information about threats facing the United States...

BIDEN: Yes.

BLITZER: ... are you more or less concerned about a terror threat facing the United States?

BIDEN: I am no more concerned than I was when I chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and had access to similar briefs, not as much in detail.

What I am concerned about is that al Qaeda, under the last administration, was able to reconstitute itself in large part in those mountains that exist between Afghanistan and Pakistan -- actually in

Pakistan, and that there has been no -- up until now, no targeted policy that has as its goal the elimination of that element of extremism in the world directed at the United States of America.

That's why if you look at the defense budget, we spend a lot more money on intelligence services. We spend a lot more money on things relating to techn ical weapons that deal with the real enemy.

BORGER: OK. And, Mr. Vice President, we're going to move on to...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I have one more question, though, on national security, before we move to the economy, because there is a lot of concern right now, and I'm sure you're concerned.

How worried are you that the new government of Israel, under Prime Minister Netanyahu, will launch a strike to take out Iran's nuclear facilities?

BIDEN: I don't believe that Prime Minister Netanyahu would do that. I think he would be ill-advised to do that. And so my level of concern is no different than it was a year ago.

BORGER: OK. We'll move on to the economy now. Mr. Vice President, The New York Times had a poll recently, today in fact, which says that 70 percent of the people in this country, 70 percent, now believe that somebody in their household is going to be out of work by next year.

You're head of the Middle Class Taskforce, we've lost 2 million jobs in the first three months of this year, when are we going to start seeing jobs being created in this country on a large scale?

BIDEN: First of all, I think the poll reflects how smart the American people are. People -- 20 percent more people -- 20 percent of the people now think we've laid the foundation for a strong economic recovery.

That's up from 5 percent. Seventy percent realistically are still worried about someone in their household may lose a job in the next year. This president has been the most straightforward and honest about the state of our affairs.

He has indicated that unemployment will continue to rise this year in all probability. You look at the figures in every major recession, this is how it has worked. Now unemployment and re-employment lags behind economic growth. So it's a legitimate concern on the part of people.

The question is, we went out there and we came up with a major recovery package of over $700 billion which we are spending now to prevent another 3.5 million to 4 million jobs from being lost in the meantime.

We think we can stabilize the economy...

BLITZER: When? When?

BIDEN: ... but it's going to take -- it will take at least another year before you start to see employment.

BLITZER: But during this year, are jobs going to continue to go away?

BIDEN: Yes. There will be...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: The next 12 months?

BIDEN: There will be an additional job loss. The idea -- you're not going to see reports this calendar year saying there was no job loss this month. That is not going to happen.

BORGER: Are you...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So far, as you know, the first three months, 2 million jobs, 5 million-plus jobs lost over the past -- since January of last year. So what you're saying is that throughout 2009, every single month, it might not be 600,000 jobs lost, but there's going to be a loss of jobs every month.

BIDEN: There will continue to be job losses the remainder of this year. The question is will they continually go down before they begin to rebound, and employment -- we go down to zero job loss and back to employment.

Look, every major economist -- when the last major recession in '82, job gain lagged 18 months to two years behind unemployment, the so-called GDP. When we officially say we're growing and we're no longer in a recession.

The measure for this administration will be whether or not at the end of our term, middle class people's standard of living have risen and not fallen, not merely with the GDP rising.

BORGER: Would you rule out a second stimulus package?

BIDEN: I wouldn't rule anything in or out, but, look, Gloria, we haven't even totally laid out...

BORGER: Likely, not likely?

BIDEN: No, I think -- I think it's much too premature. Look we had the most incredibly robust stimulus package of which there is over $500 billion hadn't been spent out yet. It's in the process of doing what we have to do, not only to create jobs, but also to lay a foundation for strong economic growth in energy, education, health care, and that's what we're doing now.

We're putting them...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ... is going to either save or create, what, 3 million...

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Three-point-five million to 4 million jobs, yes, it will.

BLITZER: Over what period of time, if we're going to just be losing jobs throughout this year?

BIDEN: No, no, no, no. Over the -- look, every economist, as you know, you've had on your program, have indicated that had we done nothing, we would have lost an addition 4 million jobs this year, an additional, on top of what we already lost.

BLITZER: So that's how you're doing the math.

BIDEN: And so -- no, it's not just doing that. We're going to actually create jobs. But you're creating jobs in sectors that are new -- you're going to see a lot more jobs in energy. You're going to see a lot more green jobs created.

You're going to see the beginning of a platform for solid economic growth not based on a bubble.

BORGER: Well, let's talk about jobs on Wall Street, because President Obama essentially fired GM CEO Rick Wagoner. I guess the question is, now that we're giving all of this money to the banks, are the bank CEOs next? Do they have to watch out?

BIDEN: Look, there are two different things here. As repugnant as it is to me and everyone else in America, to bail out the very financial institutions that got us in this trouble, if we don't, no one is going to have a penny to buy a car.

Forget whether GM is healthy or not, and Chrysler, assume they were booming. The problem here is that there is no credit throwing -- flowing through sort of the economic veins of this country.

Therefore people can't borrow money to send their kids back to college, they can't borrow money to buy a house, they can't borrow money to buy a car. And so we have to get credit flowing.

The model that we're talking about with regard to the automobile industry is are we going to put money which we have, and the recovery package money as well, into an industry that in fact is not sustainable?

We think that, like everyone else in and out of government thinks, that the automobile industry has to demonstrate they have a sustainable package for growth, that the money we're going to lend them through the taxpayers' money is likely to provide for a model that they will be able to be healthy in the out-years.

BLITZER: Well, so, what's the answer to the question? Do you see a day where the president of the United States might tell the CEO of Citigroup or Bank of America, you're out?

BIDEN: No. I don't see that as a precise method. What I do see is that there is a -- as the federal taxpayers, like in the case of some of the larger banks, and some of them are healthy and some are not as healthy, that's why we're doing this whole test here, going out and deciding which banks, what assets they have are real and what aren't real.

That we, in fact, may end up where we own -- the federal government owns a majority share of their stock, basically.

BORGER: Would you not be able to fire the CEOs the same way you fired Rick Wagoner?

BIDEN: Well, no, no, no, no, no, we could. But that has already happened. But we haven't had to tell anybody to fire anybody in the banks. There has already been significant change in management in some of the banks.

The issue is not so much, in my view, fire or not fire. The issue is, what is going to put the automobile industry in the position that with the help they're going to get, they're going to be able to survive and grow.

What business model is it? And it's clear that everybody, from the automotive industry on, that the business model that was underway and continued to be promoted by the last CEO was one - was not going to be survivable.

BLITZER: We're out of time, but we have two I-reporter questions.

BIDEN: Sure.

BLITZER: People who just sent us some questions for you, the vice president of the United States. Let me read one. Let me tell you who this first one is. Its' Ginny Dial (ph) of Toronto who said this: Vice President Biden, your selection on the number two spot among other things was much touted on your extensive foreign policy experience. To what extent would you say that President Obama is capitalizing on your experience now to drive the foreign policy agenda?

BIDEN: Any answer would have to be self serving or self deprecating. The bottom line is, I meet with the president every single day we are both in the country to discuss foreign policy. He seeks my counsel and that's - and I hopefully it's been valued added.

BLITZER: The other one is from Robin Savage of California. How do you feel about the increase in violence that is happening all across America and do you feel our law enforcement is really prepared to protect our country?

BIDEN: I think the last administration so far undercut our law enforcement. They eliminated the Biden crime bill. They eliminated the cops bill. They eliminated - we have reinstated that. That's why we both in our budget and in the money that we had for recovery, put money into hire more cops, give them better equipment, give them better intelligence and so we are back building up local law enforcement which is an essential component for dealing with this violence.

BORGER: Can I just - we're trying to get in a few little quick question here, we're done, but I just wanted to ask you very quickly, what has surprised you the most about this job?

BIDEN: The Secret Service. What surprised me the most is the degree of security that surround the vice president. I never anticipated that. I've been around a long, long time and I always kid them, I say, well nobody cares much about a vice president, not much to worry about. But that's the thing that surprised me the most about. I was very familiar after all these years in Washington with the way the White House functioned, but I never realized that I wouldn't be able to drive an automobile.

BORGER: Living in a bubble, this working class kid from Scranton, Pennsylvania.

BIDEN: Well, as you notice, I get out of the bubble. I insist that I take the train home, but there's a lot of Secret Service that rides with me. I insist when I'm home I still go to the grocery store. I still do the things I used to do, but it's a lot more cumbersome. That's the part that surprised me.

BLITZER: The pitch was a little high.

BIDEN: But it was over the plate. Have you tried to throw from that mound lately? I tell you, my arm's sore. I worked on it for two days with my brother in law. I used to be -- I used to think I was a pretty good athlete. I was very delighted that as I walking out and one of the Orioles' employees said, hey, Mr. Vice President, great Orioles pitch, high and outside, high and inside.

BLITZER: I'm going to leave it, Mr. Vice President. I know you're busy. Thanks so much for taking the time.

BIDEN: Thank you, appreciate it. I was worried about that pitch more than I was the debate.