Carl Cameron, Dick Morris on Clintons in Iowa

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ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST (voice-over): Tonight on "Hannity & Colmes," terror in Britain. New details about this weekend's attack in Scotland. Authorities have arrested suspects, as Americans wonder if this brand of terrorism is about to cross the pond.

The Bill and Hill show comes to Iowa. We have live coverage of Bill's return to the campaign trail, and Dick Morris will give us analysis. Plus, the fundraising numbers are coming in. We'll tell you which of the candidates are striking gold and which ones are striking out.

And wrestling with the truth. New allegations tonight about the world of professional wrestling and whether they contributed to Chris Benoit's vicious murder-suicide. The Warrior joins us live, and Mark Fuhrman will analyze what exactly authorities found in the doctor's office.

All of that and more, "Hannity & Colmes" starts right now.

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COLMES: This is a FOX News alert.

President Bush has commuted the 30-month prison sentence of Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney. Libby had been convicted of lying to authorities and obstructing the investigation into the Valerie Plame leak affair, but tonight President Bush called his sentence "excessive." The president will leave in place a $250,000 fine and two years of probation, but tonight Scooter Libby will not have to go to jail.

Joining us now with more of this late-breaking story, former Clinton adviser, author of "Outrage" -- a best-seller, by the way -- Dick Morris.

DICK MORRIS, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Number five.

COLMES: What does it say, Scooter Libby, four felonies, no jail. Paris Hilton, misdemeanor, 23 days in jail?

MORRIS: I'm surprised you make the comparison to Paris Hilton. I was making the comparison to President Clinton, for two reasons. First of all, he committed perjury and never was punished for it.

COLMES: He was impeached.

MORRIS: And secondly -- well, never punished for it. And, secondly, he sold pardons for which he was actually paid. And the difference between what Bush did and what Clinton did is that Bush wasn't paid.

COLMES: What evidence is there that he sold pardons?

MORRIS: Clinton? Well, he gave a pardon to Marc Rich after his wife contributed $1 million to his library. He gave a pardon to Carlos Vignali after his father gave $250,000 to his library. He gave a pardon to a circus person who is the client of his wife's brother. He gave a pardon to another person, a money launderer, who was the client of his wife's other brother.

COLMES: There is no evidence of any quid pro quo in any of these cases. But I want to get back to Scooter Libby. Here's a guy -- the president, President Bush, at the time that the Libby case came to light, said, "This is a serious charge, by the way. We're talking about a criminal action." He said that in October of 2003. "If somebody did leak this, I'd like to know. We'll take appropriate action." Then he says, "If the person has violated the law, that person will be taken care of." This seems as if it's in complete contradiction to everything the president has said leading up.

MORRIS: All of those comments were addressed to violating the law by leaking the identity of a CIA agent. When the facts came out -- that this prosecutor chose to ignore -- it was that the leak had occurred by Richard Armitage, not Scooter Libby, and that it was not a crime, either because Plame's identity was not protected or because Armitage didn't know that it was protected, or both. And at the time that Scooter Libby talked about it, the journalists already knew about it. The crime he was convicted of was perjury. And in our system of justice, Alan, the only person who's allowed to get away with perjury is the president of the United States.

COLMES: All right. In that case, then, though why does he still leave in place the $250,000 fine, the two-year probation? If what you're saying is true, you probably would support him giving him a complete pardon, something the president did not do.

MORRIS: Because it needs to be a balancing test. A quarter of a million dollar fine is a pretty hefty punishment. Two years probation is pretty serious.

COLMES: This gives the impression that President Bush doesn't trust his own Justice Department, the own independent counsel, the person who looked into it. How can that be? He's not trusting the people he has in place in his own Justice Department to exact the rule of law.

MORRIS: That's silly, because the Justice Department is not supposed to reflect political priorities. A president has the clemency power and the pardon power because he brings priorities to it. He brings his own sense of right and wrong. Granted, after you see how Clinton abused this authority, it's hard to give it that dignity.

COLMES: All right, you want to make this about Clinton, but how is this equal justice under the law?

MORRIS: Well, it's a judgment that he deserves a conviction, deserves a punishment, but not two-and-a-half years in jail.

COLMES: But who else would get this kind of treatment? There are people doing all kinds of jail time...

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Bill Clinton.

COLMES: ... without sentences commuted for a similar kind of...

MORRIS: Who else would get this kind of treatment?

COLMES: Who else would get treatment like Libby is getting?

MORRIS: You sat here for two years saying that Clinton shouldn't be impeached, shouldn't be prosecuted, and shouldn't be indicted.

COLMES: That's right. For lying about sex. That's exactly right.

MORRIS: You just answered my question.

HANNITY: He committed perjury, that's the point. And the point is the president did get away with this whole thing. How does Hillary deal with this from her standpoint? Barack Obama has come out and condemned it. But also you haven't brought up Sandy Berger, the FALN terrorists. You brought up Marc Rich and some of these other controversial pardons. What's her take going to be on this, quiet?

MORRIS: Oh, no, no. She's going to join with the Democratic Party line. The one thing about Hillary is she never blushes.

HANNITY: So there's no shame?

MORRIS: That's right.

HANNITY: But what's fascinating about this is the special prosecutor is appointed here. We discovered early on in the process that Richard Armitage was the leaker. The case should have been closed.

MORRIS: And he just continues the investigation until he can convict somebody of perjury and find a scalp. And, by the way, he doesn't do what a special prosecutor should have done, which is to encourage the underlings to flip to see if this goes up to Cheney. That's what a special prosecutor ought to do.

HANNITY: But they were trying for Rove hard. They were trying -- this became political in the process, and he lost, seemingly to me, all perspective in the case.

MORRIS: But then, also, he just went for a conviction so that he could put a scalp on the wall to justify his budget.

HANNITY: Will this help the president, inasmuch as maybe the base was a little angry over the amnesty bill and they come back?

MORRIS: A little bit, but the base was pretty annoyed over amnesty, and I don't think this is going to assuage it. I think that Bush's pardon was simply the right thing to do. I don't think it's a big deal politically one way or the other.

HANNITY: Let's talk about Barack Obama, raises all this money, beats Hillary in the second quarter, actually is quoted in one of the New York papers today -- well, a campaign manager quoted as saying she's the quasi- frontrunner in this thing. So they obviously are feeling some confidence building here.

MORRIS: Well, it's terrific performance on his part, but take it out of the horserace context for a minute. This was an historic day for the American democracy because you had two candidates, one was raising money the old way -- special interests, political action committee, large fat cat donors, Hillary. The other one was refusing special interest money, as Bill did, by the way, when he ran...

HANNITY: Right.

MORRIS: ... and taking it from 260,000 people giving relatively small contributions, and the new way beat out the old way by $10 million.

HANNITY: Is it also the candidates?

MORRIS: Campaign finance reform is basically happening before our eyes because the Internet mass giving is overcoming the special interest fat cat giving.

HANNITY: It started a little bit with Howard Dean, though, but now it's been taken...

MORRIS: Dean was the first one, and now you have Obama doing it.

HANNITY: It's been taken to a new level here.

MORRIS: By the way, did Joe Trippi go to work for Obama? I think he did.

HANNITY: Where's Trippi working these days? Is he working?

COLMES: I think so.

MORRIS: I think so, and he's the guy that did the Dean fundraising.

HANNITY: The Dean campaign, which did very well on the Internet.

MORRIS: And he's now...

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: I think it's Edwards. I think he's working for Edwards.

MORRIS: Oh, it is Edwards.

(CROSSTALK)

MORRIS: ... his book, saying the revolution will not be televised. That's exactly what's happening now is revolution.

HANNITY: I want to get back to Hillary in just a minute here, because Hillary and Bill are now out campaigning together. I'll get back to that in a second. I want to ask you about this: Congress now has the lowest approval rating in the history of poll taking. Reid's rating is 19 percent. Nancy Pelosi is seeing numbers in the low 30s now herself. Overall, Congress is lower. They passed 39 meaningless bills in the time that they've been in office here. They've had six months.

MORRIS: They're not meaningless. One of them spoke about the importance of boating and yachting. Another...

HANNITY: There's 18 naming post offices, right, after people?

MORRIS: I think the people are absolutely revolted at the way the Democrats run Congress. Every single thing the Republicans did -- and we talk about this in "Outrage" -- the Democrats are doing the same thing. The Republicans had Congress meeting for 103 days. So the Democrats promised top-to-bottom reform. They're going to meet 140 days.

HANNITY: So why can't they accomplish anything? It seems to me, when the "New York Times" points out that every week they have conference calls with MoveOn.org and the extreme left wing, it seems that they are so beholden to them that they have -- that they're incapable of reaching out and finding consensus with the president.

MORRIS: Well, let me give you -- well, I don't think they want Bush to have any achievements. I think that's part of it.

HANNITY: Does America want that?

MORRIS: No, of course not. But they do want (INAUDIBLE) you look at the energy bill. In the Senate, it's a pretty good energy bill that focuses on all kinds of alternate sources. In the House, Dingell, the chairman of the Joint Committee from Michigan, won't let higher automobile fuel economy standards go on.

COLMES: We're going to take a quick break, Dick.

MORRIS: He's a Democrat, a liberal...

HANNITY: I actually agree with him on that.

MORRIS: ... but he represents Detroit.

HANNITY: But...

COLMES: He's going left, you see? We've got to take a break. We're coming back with you in just a minute. By the way, I said independent counsel. I meant to say special prosecutor.

MORRIS: Sure.

COLMES: Still ahead tonight, more arrests in the U.K. terror plot, as authorities continue to hunt for those responsible. Now fears growing this breed of terror is heading stateside. Could it be? We'll talk about it.

And you are looking live at a rally in Iowa where Bill and Hillary will be making a campaign stop. More with Dick Morris on the Bill and Hill show.

HANNITY: "How are you doing? Good to see you."

COLMES: And maybe a good impression of him when we get up in just a moment.

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HANNITY: You are looking at live pictures from a rally in Des Moines, Iowa, where former President Bill Clinton is making his return to the campaign trail. He is stumping with Hillary in the state that he largely ignored in his 1992 White House run. And own Carl Cameron, "Campaign Carl," is live on the scene in Iowa with the very latest on the Bill and Hillary show -- Carl?

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're back, Sean. This is the first time they've actually campaigned today, though Bill and Hillary have done a couple of fundraisers. And I guess we're back on Clinton time. They're running about 45 minutes late.

This is meant to kick off three days of campaigning, and the Clinton campaign has spent a tremendous amount of time trying to figure out tactically when it would be best to bring out their biggest piece of artillery, Bill Clinton, tremendously popular in Democratic politics, arguably the most popular Democrat in the country, if not on the planet. And yet there is always that possible double-edged sword, because he could either overshadow Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail or, for some, dredge up bitter memories of the '90s and sort of increase what some think is the polarization of the Clinton candidacy.

So we're expecting them to get to the podium. But as the introductions have begun, they've just told us that the motorcade is still a few minutes away. So, evidently, Clinton time returns, with Bill Clinton at his wife's side on the campaign trail.

HANNITY: All right, Carl Cameron in Des Moines tonight. Carl, thanks for being with us.

And with more on the Bill and Hill show, we are rejoined by the "New York Times" best-seller "Outrage," former Clinton adviser Dick Morris is with us.

Let me go over these numbers, because first we had the "Sopranos" ad. Now Bill is taking to the campaign trail. Obviously, he's trying to bail out Hillary here. Here are the Mason Dixon numbers: 52 percent of Americans will not consider voting for her; 60 percent of independents; 56 percent of men; and 47 percent of women. This is your area of expertise. That is devastating for any candidate.

MORRIS: ... but let me point out why Bill Clinton is in Iowa with her.

HANNITY: To help out these numbers.

MORRIS: No, but it's more than that. You remember when had you Frank Luntz critiquing the Democratic debate and the Republican debate, and with the Democratic debate, and when Edwards attacked Hillary indirectly, he said that was the worst moment of the debate. His focus group dials went down. And he said no Democrat may speak ill of another Democrat.

So Hillary's only issue against Obama, her big one is inexperience, that Obama is ingenue and she's experienced. Now, in fact, Obama has been in public life longer than Hillary and elected office. And in the Senate, Obama has been there for four fewer years, and what did Hillary do? She wrote a best-selling book and autographed it for those years. But to stress the experience angle, Hillary needs to have Bill right there so that, by osmosis, they become co-president.

HANNITY: Does that work?

MORRIS: Yes.

HANNITY: It does work. You really believe that?

MORRIS: Absolutely, and the polling shows that it does. The minute he's there with her, they become the Clintons, and they've been president for eight years. And it's her method of highlighting the experience issue vis-a-vis Obama.

HANNITY: At some point though, doesn't that come back to hurt her in some way though? You know, she's been out there on the attack. She does not have his skills, she does not have his warmth, as phony as I may think it is, in a lot of ways. She went after the president, literally said this weekend here, "It's time for a woman to come in and clean up the house. We have a lot of cleaning to do, so grab your buckets and grab your brooms." Can you imagine if a guy said that, by the way?

MORRIS: By the way, I don't understand why Barack Obama doesn't do the same. He goes to a black debate in Howard University. And everybody is spouting Headstart and day care and this and that, and he doesn't say, more than any of your programs, think of the impact of electing an African- American president on young...

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: I need to point out that Hillary does not need bailing out at this point. She's ahead in all the polls. She's doing very well. She's clearly headed for the nomination at this point.

MORRIS: Yes, but, in Iowa, in the last eight polls, Edwards has led in four of them. And therefore her national lead isn't translating here. But I agree with you; Hillary is way ahead for this nomination. But she needs Bill because she needs to become the co-president.

COLMES: But people criticize Al Gore for not utilizing the talents of Bill Clinton. If Hillary Clinton didn't use her husband strategically, she'd be criticized for not utilizing the greatest asset she might have, in terms of what he successfully did.

MORRIS: Well, the circumstances are different 2000, as opposed to 2007. But Hillary has always done this in-out dance with Bill's record. When they ran, it was two for the price of one, co-president. Then for the first two years, they were together. Then when I joined the administration, she got lost. She went around the world, doing all kinds of stuff. Then when Monica came in, she was back. Then when she ran for the Senate, she was just Hillary. She left off the "Clinton." Now she is "the Clintons." So it's in and out and in and out.

COLMES: Look, given how unpopular this president is and this administration is right now...

HANNITY: And Congress.

COLMES: ... I think we'd be thrilled to go back to the way things were in the '90s and how popular the president was compared to what's going on right now. The big news today, though, is John McCain getting rid of 50 staffers. That's really the big political news today.

MORRIS: Well, I think the big political news was how well Obama did in fundraising. But McCain is on his way out. He is the permanent casualty of this immigration debate. And what I think is going to -- and Romney has never taken off above 10 percent in any convincing way.

I think that now you're going to see the Thompson boomlet. It's going to soar. It's going to be like a 4th of July firecracker. Then I predict it's going to fade, and then I think Newt may come in and he may fade. And then you may have to look at the existing cast of thousands -- my favorite is Huckabee -- for a replacement candidate from the extreme right. The problem with Thompson is that people are voting for an actor. They're not voting for a senator.

HANNITY: What about Rudy?

COLMES: Wasn't that true with Reagan?

MORRIS: No, but they weren't voting for him, because he did a good job in Bonzo. They didn't have that image in mind. They were voting for a guy -- now they're voting for Arthur Branch, not for Fred Thompson.