Giuliani, Bolton on UK Terror Plot

And for more reaction to today's news, we're joined in a "Hannity & Colmes" exclusive by former New York City mayor, presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani.

Mr. Mayor, thanks for being back with us.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Thank you.

HANNITY: You know, I count over a dozen now foiled attacks. Clearly, this one was very close, but it once again is a reminder of how adamant this enemy is to destroy innocent life.

GIULIANI: I think, Sean, if you look at all the ones that have been public, both in the United States and overseas, it's about 21, 22, something like that, the last time we counted, which means about one every four months. So this is a very persistent enemy. Now, you know, we don't know exactly the source of this one, so maybe we don't put this one yet in that category. But it sure -- I mean, it sure is one that reminds me of being there.

I was there two years ago, on July 7 of 2005, a half-block away from where the bomb went off at the Liverpool station. So this one brings back a lot of memories of that day. And, I mean, in that case, people died. Thank goodness we've got a group of police officers here who acted brilliantly to save lives. And they diffused that bomb right on the spot. That's tough to do.

HANNITY: That one cop that got in there, I was reading the reports in some of the London papers, was, you know, an incredible act of courage here. You know, as we look at all of these incidents though, Mr. Mayor, there is some good news, the good news is, is that police, law enforcement, our techniques are working. We've got the NSA program here. We've got the Patriot Act program here. You know, in light of this, how close this was, it's staggering to me that we're even debating the use of these techniques in this country even at this time.

GIULIANI: There's another point that I remember from July 7 of two years ago, and I think you're going to see play out in this one. There are about 40,000 CCTV cameras in London, 40,000. I mean, I can't guarantee it, and nobody else can, but there's a pretty good chance that they're going to have some of these people on camera. They did last time.

I remember being startled when I was in London. They had the people caught within a day. And that's real important to deterring this kind of activity, I mean, to get these people right away before they can run out of the country, before they can go foment other things.

HANNITY: Mr. Mayor, one of the things you're best known for is reducing crime and lowering the murder rate in New York. Following up on that, do you think maybe that's something we need in this country, in major cities?

GIULIANI: We sure as heck have to look at it. I mean, I remember how important it was to the authorities in London to have this two years ago. I imagine it's real critical right now to their investigation.

And the other thing that I remember in London, being there two years ago, their emergency response is superb. I mean, they were all over that city in about two minutes. Looks like their emergency response, once again, was superb. An ambulance driver is the one who first spotted this. That means you got a pretty darn alert emergency response going on when they pick up things like this.

HANNITY: You know, and certainly, I'm sure we can do it with ways that we can protect the privacy of innocent people, and then certainly that would need to be a component here. But let me ask you, in terms of -- in the battle now for this presidential race, you see the divide and the differences here. Does this go to the heart of winning the war in Iraq? Does this go to the battle over the Patriot Act, the NSA surveillance program?

GIULIANI: Sure. Sure, it does.

HANNITY: Explain why.

GIULIANI: It goes to the whole point that I keep making. It's my first commitment of the 12 that I've made to the American people. We have to be on offense in the terrorist war against us. What that means is, we have to anticipate.

This is what they're doing in the U.K. They're anticipating. Now, look how difficult this is. U.K. has got just about the best intelligence services in the world. They weren't able to pick this up in advance, but because they're anticipating, they got it just in time.

Well, it's got to be a great lesson to us. We've got to be on offense in the Islamic terrorist war against us. Whether this came out of -- whether it came out of Islamic-inspired or not, this is a good object lesson in how you have to deal with it. And I don't want to come to that until the authorities do.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Mr. Mayor, it's Alan Colmes. Welcome back to our show.

GIULIANI: Hi, Alan. How are you?

COLMES: How are you, sir? As I understand it, this was found because they called an ambulance for a drunk coming out of a bar, basically, and this had nothing to do with the Patriot Act or legislation. This was a fortuitous confluence of events which resulted, thankfully, in preventing a horrible act from taking place.

GIULIANI: No, but, Alan, that isn't correct. I mean, you train a -- I've got to believe that the emergency responders in London, like the ones in New York and some of the others, have been trained to look for things like this. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. And then the CCTV cameras that are probably going to be critical in finding the people who did it, that's all being on offense against terrorism.

I mean, I remember July 7 two years ago, the way the emergency people were trained was being on offense against terrorism. The cameras caught most of those people back on July 7. All of that is stuff in which you're on offense, and there is political opposition to that. I think you'd be naive not to mention that.

COLMES: Well, I didn't say there wasn't political opposition to it, but this wasn't about a Patriot Act. But in terms of the cameras which you've talked about, does that mean you would advocate more cameras in public places, more surveillance, more public surveillance, more surveillance of Americans going about their business on a day-to-day basis to prevent something like this happening here?

GIULIANI: Alan, before anybody advocates and you get all excited about it, maybe you should just point out that that is the fact. And it is the fact in the U.K. Whether it is the fact in the United States or not, it's something we can look at.

But, I mean, the reality is, your point is not correct. I mean, the reason they're on top of this as quickly as they are -- and, boy, that was true of July 7, that one we already know, because it's played itself out -- is because they've been on offense against terrorism. It's something we have to look at.

Maybe we do it in a different way. Maybe we do it because we have different sensitivity and constitutional rules, but we sure as heck don't want to go back to the pre-September 11 thinking, go back to the 1990s, like some of the political figures that are talking about, you know, let's go back to the 1990s...

COLMES: No one's suggesting we go back to the 1990s, sir. But I guess what I'm asking, also, is some say this is a reaction to Gordon Brown being newly installed. Does that mean an incoming American president has to be prepared, ready for some possible attack like this, day one, that somebody wants to make a statement against a new American president? And what do you do if you're that person?

GIULIANI: Any American president or vice presidential selection has to be selected based on the fact that, on day one, who knows what you're going to have to deal with. I mean, you know, in many ways President Bush was tested only eight months into his presidency. And, I mean, that's just the reality of the world we live in. I don't think that's any novel thing. Every candidate I think is going to be tested against that standard, and they should be.

HANNITY: All right, Mr. Mayor, thanks for joining us.

GIULIANI: Thanks.

HANNITY: I understand you're at the Reagan Library tonight.

GIULIANI: I'm at the Reagan library. I'm about to give a speech tonight to my foreign colleagues in the Reagan Justice Department.

HANNITY: Well, it's good to see you, Mr. Mayor. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day on this important news day, as we still battle this war on terror.

GIULIANI: Good to see you.

HANNITY: We're going to have more on this foiled terror plot coming up.

By the way, a few weeks ago on "Hannity's America," we ran shocking video of extremists that were inside London's mosques. Now, could these be the people behind today's potentially deadly scare? We'll show you that video.

And the tragic and the brutal Benoit family murder-suicide has captured the nation's attention. As details continue to emerge about Benoit, many are wondering, is the wrestling world covering something up? We'll have that, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(21:13)

COLMES: Joining us now with more on the bomb plot, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton.

Ambassador, welcome back to "Hannity & Colmes."

Michael Chertoff said today that what was experienced in England is not connected to a threat to the United States. Do you see it that way? Should we be as sanguine as he suggests, or more on guard about this?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I don't think he's being sanguine. I think he's trying to be as careful as he can not to alarm people. But let's be clear: This kind of terrorist attack, if it's possible in London, is possible in any major American city, so I think it warrants very close scrutiny. I'm sure that's what our law enforcement people are doing tonight.

COLMES: And people are talking about these cameras. Does that mean we're going to move toward that in this country? There already are cameras in some municipalities, but there's a ring of these video cameras all around London apparently. Do you see us moving in that direction? Is that good idea? And is it going to be a problem with civil libertarians?

BOLTON: Well, I agree with Mayor Giuliani. I think this is something we should take a look at. I mean, to oversimplify Fourth Amendment law, if you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, there's no unreasonable search or seizure. If you're out in public, obviously you can't have much of an expectation of privacy, so I think there's a lot of leeway perhaps we're not using fully in this country.

COLMES: People are comparing this to an Al Qaeda-type attack or people are saying it's like the kind of attack insurgents are doing against Americans in Iraq. What conclusions are we to draw from the way this happened?

BOLTON: Well, look at what they did. This is a classic improvised explosive device. They put nails around explosives and gasoline. This is a true terrorist weapon. It's designed to act as shrapnel. If it had gone off, it could have killed or wounded dozens or hundreds of innocent people. That's something that copycats around the world can take a look at.

COLMES: People are saying this is tied to Iraq. They've also suggested it might be tied to the British knighting of Salman Rushdie. Do we look to those kinds of explanations here? Is it wise to try to find a reason?

BOLTON: Well, I think we don't know enough yet to say. But can I just make this point? Even if you're opposed to the war in Iraq or if you're opposed to knighting Salman Rushdie or if you're opposed to a dozen other things, it does not justify setting up bombs in a heavily populated city to kill innocent civilians. That is beyond the pale, no matter what the reason is.

HANNITY: Hey, Ambassador, that's pure evil, especially the way this bomb was designed, to inflict the maximum damage, as you point out, on innocent people. You know, I've asked the secretary of homeland security, Chertoff, on numerous occasions about, you know, are there terrorist cells in America? I've asked other administration officials. The answer is always yes, there are. So we know in this country today, Ambassador, that these cells are here, right?

BOLTON: We've seen it from any number of arrests, Fort Dix, the potential attack on New York City subways, the Sears Tower in Chicago. People, since September 11, 2001, in this country have gotten a little too complacent. Our law enforcement, our intelligence services have done well. But take a look at this example from London. I agree with Alan. It was close to accidental that they found this before the improvised explosive device went off.

HANNITY: Ambassador, are we saying that there have been cells here since 9/11, six years ago almost, and that they're waiting for, what, orders to attack?

BOLTON: I don't know that they're necessarily waiting for orders. They can simply be acting on their own; that doesn't make them any less dangerous. And what it shows is that the war on terror is a long war. And simply because there hasn't been a tragedy like September 11 doesn't mean we can rest.

HANNITY: Do you see a connection between Al Qaeda and Iran, Ambassador? For example, when we look at -- you know, they're responsible for funding the insurgency in Iraq and now supporting the Taliban. They're supporting Hezbollah and Hamas, issues we have dealt with right here with you on this program. Do you see a connection between Al Qaeda and Iran that we need to be concerned about?

BOLTON: Well, I think Iran has demonstrated by its behavior it's willing to support, fund and arm anybody that's prepared to go after the United States and its friends and allies. So I hope in the course of this investigation in the U.K. they're looking at all the possibilities. Iran is pushing out, and, unfortunately, we're not pushing back hard enough.

COLMES: Ambassador, we thank you very much for being with us tonight. Thanks for your time, sir.

BOLTON: Glad to be here.