ShareStill No Budget Deal
Greta Van Susterenxfdfx FOX-ON-THE-RECORD-WIT-01
Show: FOX ON THE RECORD WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN>
Date: April 7, 2011>
Time: 22:00:00>
Tran: 040701cb.260>
Type: Show>
Head: Still No Budget Deal>
Sect: News; Domestic>
Byline: Greta Van Susteren>
Guest: Rep. Michele Bachmann, Dick Morris, Rob Andrews>
Spec: Politics; Budget>
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: This is a FOX News Alert. Get ready! It could be happening, a government shutdown. Now, right now, there is no deal. The story is quickly developing with a very uncertain outcome. There continues to be a last minute scramble to get a deal.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We made some additional progress this evening. I think the staffs, both the House and the Senate as well as the White House staff, have been working hard to try to narrow the differences. We made some progress today. Those differences have been narrowed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: But right now, again, there is no deal. President Barack Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, Speaker John Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid all meeting, but in the president's words, he's not wildly optimistic. Now, staffs will be working through the night, and the president expects tomorrow morning to get an answer from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Boehner. Now, this is the fourth time in two days that the four men have met. They met two days ago, last night, earlier today and now tonight. But still, again, no deal.
Here is the grim reality. If you check your watch, we are less than 26 hours away from Friday midnight, when the government is set to go into shutdown mode. Meanwhile, there is plenty of outrage. Try this one. If the government shuts down, U.S. troops will stay on duty, risking their lives in two war zones, but they won't get paid -- not a dime. But get this. Members of the House, the Senate and the president will all get paid during the shutdown. How do you like that one?
And there's lots more going on. House Republicans, either in good faith or to politically squeeze the Democrats, have passed a one-week stopgap that they know the president hates and has promised to veto. It was passed by the House Republicans, but this is not happening. So now what?
Joining us is Minnesota congresswoman Michele Bachmann. Good evening, Congresswoman.
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Good evening, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well, the big news, of course, the president just came out and he said there's been, quote, more additional progress, but he also said he is not prepared to express wild optimism. So how do we read those tea leaves?
BACHMANN: Well, obviously, there was no agreement tonight, but that doesn't mean that there actually will be a shutdown or that there won't be agreement tomorrow. I think there's a very good chance that there will be.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, it's sort of interesting because it's the four men in this room, and they're the ones who are going to cut the deal. I don't know what -- (INAUDIBLE) catches (ph) me with some semblance of amusement that it's the staffs that have to work all night long. What are they working all night on if it's these four that have to make the agreement, or essentially these two, the speaker and...
BACHMANN: Well, they've got big-picture things. But you know, budgets are huge and there's a lot of small, little moving parts. And so the staff needs to come in and figure out how they can actually make it balance and make it work. And so the staff will be there, and then they'll all come together again tomorrow morning. And I'm optimistic. I really am. I...
VAN SUSTEREN: Why, though? I mean, because a lot of it isn't on -- I mean, it's one thing, the money. You can split the money, and you can -- and you can maybe pick (ph) it up on the next budget or something. But there are some very strong ideological differences, even things like on funding of abortion.
BACHMANN: That's right.
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, that is something that's non-negotiable on both sides.
BACHMANN: I agree. I agree. But remember, again, we're talking about a budget that's $3.5 trillion. And the difference that we're talking about here is tens of billions of dollars out of $3.5 trillion.
VAN SUSTEREN: (INAUDIBLE) ideological aspect, not on things like that.
BACHMANN: No, I agree. But now, again, one -- the bill that was sent over today to the Senate had to do with abortion. But what it did is, it cut out the abortion in Washington, D.C. It didn't necessarily defund Planned Parenthood. So that shows movement and negotiation on the part of John Boehner.
So that tells me that I think we'll probably get somewhere on this because, again, I think Republicans are looking to 2012, with the Path to Prosperity, the next budget that we're looking at that Paul Ryan introduced this week. And it could be that that's where we'll see us fight over trillions and over the big ideological battles, rather than now. I'm not sure, I'm just guessing. But that may be...
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, the stopgap bill that was passed today, the continuing resolution -- which I must -- I think is number seven, right?
(CROSSTALK)
BACHMANN: There's been a lot of them.
VAN SUSTEREN: Anyway. You voted against it. And...
BACHMANN: I did.
VAN SUSTEREN: And why did you vote against it?
BACHMANN: Well, I voted against it because this morning, President Obama said that he was going to vote against the bill. And we have another bill that actually will allow the troops to keep their paychecks and just have that as a standalone bill. I thought that was a better way to go. And also, this bill didn't defund Obama care. I think that's also very important, that if we're worried about the troops getting their paychecks, we can do that on a standalone bill. I...
VAN SUSTEREN: But this does it -- this one does it, as well.
BACHMANN: It does it, but it has other provisions on it that President Obama said that he would veto. I think we need to get that issue off the table. I think we need to let everyone know that the troops will get their funding. I released a statement today that said I am not going to take a paycheck myself during a shutdown. As long, as our troops aren't getting paid, I can't in good conscience get paid.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. If Speaker Boehner strikes a deal with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, he then has to go back and sell it to the House, to the members. There are some rather, shall we say, frisky freshmen who -- I mean, they don't seem to...
BACHMANN: They are so great!
VAN SUSTEREN: They don't...
BACHMANN: They are so great!
VAN SUSTEREN: They don't -- they do not seem to be toeing the line. Are they going to be sort of as willing to be sort of, like, to be, sort of go along if the speaker says, This is a good bill?
BACHMANN: Well, I think they're going to listen to the speaker. I think they'll listen to what the speaker has to say and I think they'll act accordingly. At the end of the day, I think we're going to get something. I really do. I think it's going to happen.
VAN SUSTEREN: Would you vote for anything the speaker says at this point is a good bill, and we're talking about between now -- to fund the government between now and September 30th?
BACHMANN: I made a statement early on that I won't be able to vote for any budget that doesn't defund Obama care. And so that's -- I've staked out that position.
VAN SUSTEREN: (INAUDIBLE) no.
BACHMANN: I'll be a no if it doesn't defund.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, you told me to ask you about (INAUDIBLE) message about the budget tonight (INAUDIBLE)
BACHMANN: I do.
VAN SUSTEREN: (INAUDIBLE) wouldn't forget to ask you...
BACHMANN: I do.
(CROSSTALK)
BACHMANN: It's high risk, but I think it's going to be worth it, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: I better be worth it (INAUDIBLE) end of my career!
BACHMANN: I had Chinese tonight. This was my fortune cookie. You're going to love this. You shouldn't overspend at the moment. Frugality is important. So I think I got President Obama's fortune cookie tonight.
VAN SUSTEREN: I don't know, but anyway, that was a high-risk question because I asked it without any clue as to what the answer would be.
(LAUGHTER)
BACHMANN: You're a good sport.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. All right, so we know that you had Chinese food. We know about -- about that, so...
BACHMANN: But Isn't that perfect, You shouldn't overspend at the moment, frugality is important ?
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you have, like -- too bad you didn't have, like, about 600 of those so we could have the House, the Senate and the -- and...
BACHMANN: Oh, this is -- this is going to the White House, and I'll reprint it and I'll send it to Harry Reid, too.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Gold. I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear from you because they seem to like to hear from you a lot anyway.
BACHMANN: I think they do.
VAN SUSTEREN: They do (INAUDIBLE) All right, so tomorrow, you expect that -- your guess is that Speaker Boehner...
BACHMANN: That's -- that's -- that's -- I'll bet you an ice cream cone. That's my guess, that we (INAUDIBLE)
VAN SUSTEREN: I'd rather to have the Chinese dinner, actually.
(LAUGHTER)
BACHMANN: OK.
VAN SUSTEREN: You think that -- so they're going to call up and they're going to say, We got a deal?
BACHMANN: Well, I think both sides are going to come together overnight. I think they will because, again, the money differences, as you accurately said, are not that far apart. And I think they'll have to split the differences ideologically. I think that's what they'll do. Again, I'm going to be a no vote because it doesn't defund Obama care, but my guess is between John Boehner and Harry Reid, I think they'll strike a deal.
VAN SUSTEREN: Who has the most to lose politically with a shutdown?
BACHMANN: They both have something to lose and President Obama has something to lose if this doesn't go through. What we're hearing is that the conventional wisdom said it's all downhill for the Republicans, but there's down side for the Democrats, too, because no one wants to see a shutdown on the Democrat side. They really don't.
VAN SUSTEREN: Congresswoman, thank you very much.
BACHMANN: Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nice to see you. And we'll have to auction off that cookie.
BACHMANN: For the troops. For the troops!
(LAUGHTER)
VAN SUSTEREN: Nice to see you.
BACHMANN: Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, our next guest says we should want a government shutdown. Well, he certainly needs to explain that one himself. I can't. Former adviser to President Clinton and author of the new book Revolt, Dick Morris joins us. Dick, why should anyone want a shutdown?
DICK MORRIS, REVOLT AUTHOR: Well, I don't want a shutdown. I want a cut of $61 billion. I want the Republicans in Congress to keep the campaign commitment they made to the American people of a $100 billion cut. And I'm shocked at your interview with Congresswoman Bachmann. She was saying, Oh, there's going to be a deal, they'll come together, there'll be some kind of compromise. Well, a compromise that is less than $61 billion is breaking the promise to the American people. And above all...
VAN SUSTEREN: Now, you think...
(CROSSTALK)
MORRIS: ... that the Republicans are so -- the Republicans are so scared...
VAN SUSTEREN: You think...
MORRIS: ... about the -- let me finish. The Republicans are so scared of a government shutdown that they're not willing to stand firm on their principles and keep their promises. I believe the Republicans would win a government shutdown. The issue in the rest of the country would be more spending versus less spending. We know how that's going to come out.
And I would urge every freshman and every member of Congress to vote against anything that is less than the full $61 billion and to be honest with the American people and keep the promises on which you were elected. It's not such a strange point of view to say you made a promise, you ought to keep that promise. And if Speaker Boehner is willing to lead the way in breaking that promise, I think it's time he become former Speaker Boehner.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any way -- I mean, the $61 billion is enormous amount of money. However, it is less than 2 percent of the budget at the same time. It's not -- I mean, in some ways...
MORRIS: Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... it's an enormous amount of money. In some ways, it's absolutely chump change. Is it worth it if they are close enough on the money issue -- is it worth it to shut down the government and run -- I mean, and create all sorts of problems for the American people?
MORRIS: Sure. Sure, it is.
VAN SUSTEREN: Although I must tell you -- I must tell you, I'm not particularly sympathetic that we've even gotten to this point because I assign the blame to the House, the Senate and the president that we're even in this ridiculous race against the clock.
MORRIS: Oh, I don't think it's ridiculous. I think it's very good. I think that the race against the clock is because the administration is taking the ridiculous position that in a budget of $3.6 trillion, they can't find $61 billion of waste to cut. And the Republicans are taking the ludicrous position that they're going to accept a cut of a lesser order of magnitude, of such a tiny sum relative to the budget.
The reason this is important is if the Republicans do not get what they want, it will be because they're afraid of a shutdown. And if they are afraid of a shutdown, they will be forced to compromise on debt limit, on the budget, and they will accomplish nothing during their tenure in Congress because the only weapon they have is a shutdown. And if they're not willing to use that weapon, that cowardice is going to undermine their ability to keep their commitments.
And my view is that the government shutdown will not be so bad. I think troops need to be paid. We have to make sure the Democrats don't hold them hostage and the Republican bill that pays the troops passes. Obama -- the commander-in-chief is willing to hold America's troops hostage and have them not paid.
VAN SUSTEREN: You say that it's not so bad for the American people if there's a shutdown. Why do all the members of...
MORRIS: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Congress think it's a bad idea?
MORRIS: Social Security -- Social Security...
VAN SUSTEREN: Why -- why does everyone else think it's a bad idea...
MORRIS: Well, part of it is...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... OK, who's the representatives...
MORRIS: Part of it...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... and the senators?
MORRIS: Part of it -- can I answer your question? Part of it is that they're all in Washington and there are 800,000 federal workers there who aren't going to get paychecks for a few days or for a week or two. And they're all reflecting this hothouse atmosphere within the Beltway. In the rest of America, we don't want a shutdown. We want the campaign commitment to be kept without a shutdown, but if it takes a shutdown to make it kept, we don't think that's a bad thing. We think it's important that government keep that, that the Republicans keep that commitment.
And if we don't shut it down now, when are we going to shut it down? Over the debt limit? Over the federal budget? The Republicans will essentially vitiate the whole impact of the 2010 election if they cave in on this one, and Boehner shows every...
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, because I...
MORRIS: ... every sign of caving in.
VAN SUSTEREN: I wouldn't make the argument of the 800,000 if I were the president because I travel the country a lot, and there are a lot people who say, 800,000 federal workers, at least they have their jobs. I mean, those jobs are pretty much safe. So actually, I always -- I always think every time I hear the 800,000 federal workers, I think, Not that one, don't use that argument. There are -- there are better ones in terms of how it affects the American people. But anyway, we'll see...
MORRIS: Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... what happens and...
MORRIS: But the better one, Greta...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... let's see, 26 hours or less.
MORRIS: The better one, Greta, is let them -- let the -- let John Boehner keep his word. It's that simple. And will the Republican freshmen keep their word? And will the Republican congressmen keep their word? Or are they -- were they lying us to when they said $100 billion?
VAN SUSTEREN: Dick, I got to go.
MORRIS: Now, if they fought it and they lost it, that's OK. But they're not fighting it.
VAN SUSTEREN: Dick, I got to go. And we have a little few-second delay. That's why you thought I was interrupting. I was actually -- we have a little satellite delay. But anyway, thank you, Dick.
MORRIS: I'm sorry.
VAN SUSTEREN: Our next guest says Democrats have been willing to meet on all reasonable compromises more than two thirds of the way. So why does he think there's no budget deal? New Jersey congressman Rob Andrews joins us. And of curse, you always think that your one side's reasonable. They may not think (INAUDIBLE) they are.
REP. ROB ANDREWS (D), NEW JERSEY: You look at the numbers, Greta -- the House Republicans passed a budget with $100 billion cut below what the president asked for. So they were at $100, he was at zero. I understand he's now willing to agree to, like, $73 billion. So the math that I learned is that if you start at zero and move to 73, and the other guy's at 100, you've gone pretty far toward his position.
VAN SUSTEREN: Except that this isn't buying a car and negotiating whether you want an AM or FM radio! I mean, this is -- I mean, this is a lot different! And $61 billion is really sort of chump change. And when I see all the waste in government, I think to myself, Really? If there's that much waste in government, you can't find $61 billion? And what have you all been doing, is my thought.
ANDREWS: Well, you know, we're talking about a 12 percent corner of the budget. The other 88 percent of the money is not really covered by this bill. And the debate, you know, we're going to have in the budget resolution you and I talked about the other night really covers a lot of that. But you know, how many Americans have been in a negotiation where one side says, I want everything I want and I'm not changing? And the other side says, Look, I'll go...
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, actually...
ANDREWS: ... I'll go...
VAN SUSTEREN: That's the (INAUDIBLE)
ANDREWS: ... three quarters of the way toward where you are. Is that really a negotiation?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, actually, that's sort of what President Obama did about the stimulus, I think. Wasn't it, I won? I mean, like, we've seen that on both sides of the aisle.
ANDREWS: Well, you know, the president...
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, I've seen that one on the Democrats, too! All right, but tell me, what is the -- OK, the Republicans had their bill.
ANDREWS: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: And then it went over to the House.
ANDREWS: The Senate.
VAN SUSTEREN: The Senate, I mean. Where -- the Senate never sort of came back with a number.
ANDREWS: It's true. But the Senate did put both the House Republican bill on the floor and a Democratic bill. They both failed. So that's when these negotiations (INAUDIBLE) Look, here's what I think this is really all about. The Republicans have many members who very sincerely believe we shouldn't fund Planned Parenthood. I disagree with them, but I don't doubt their sincerity. Because the president doesn't support putting that in the final bill, they want to shut the government down. Now, look...
VAN SUSTEREN: That's not the only reason! That is in the bill and that is one issue...
ANDREWS: Well, I think that's the one that's really buzzing around. Listening on the floor today, that's the one most Republicans are bringing up, at least when I talk to them. And look, that's a debate that we ought to have another day. And I respect their views. I disagree with them, but I respect their views. But shutting the government down over that? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
VAN SUSTEREN: I think that's sort of oversimplifying. I mean, there are sort of many issues involved in it than simply that. And I think if you start first with the money...
ANDREWS: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... is that -- you know, is that $61 billion is chump change, less than 2 percent. They made an offer, the House Republicans. I mean, you're in the House, but the House Republicans -- the Republicans own the House. It goes over to the Senate...
ANDREWS: They don't own it.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... the Senate doesn't -- well...
ANDREWS: They hold it in trust.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... you know what I mean.
ANDREWS: They don't own it.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, yes, of course. You know what I mean. OK, so they -- it gets over to the Senate. The Senate doesn't counteroffer. They never pass anything themselves...
ANDREWS: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... and instead just start insulting, essentially, the Republicans and calling them extremists and having sort of a code (ph) and I mean, Chuck Schumer got caught with his pants down where it seemed a little disingenuous. You've got your former head of the DNC saying it's a good thing for a shutdown.
ANDREWS: But you know...
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, so it looks a little bit more than just simply...
ANDREWS: That's all the...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... a little ideological battle.
ANDREWS: That's all the color. But again, the reality is, you have a negotiation where one side says, We want to cut 100. The other side says, Well, no, I want zero, to begin with. And the guy at zero moves to 73? That sounds pretty reasonable to me. And then not to do the deal because of a sincere disagreement over Planned Parenthood -- that's not worth shutting the government down.
There are other things. You know, you heard my friend, Michele Bachmann, talk about the health care bill. I know there's other interest in some environmental issues. But we shouldn't stop the taxpayers from getting services they already paid for and will continue to pay for because of these ideological social issues. That makes no sense to me.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, didn't -- why didn't you guys pass a bill when you had the House and the Senate and the White House because, you know, now you sort of accuse the Republicans of having these political agendas, but you guys didn't step up to the plate! And I think it was in fear of the election because you didn't want to be caught making tough...
ANDREWS: Actually (INAUDIBLE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Why -- why didn't you pass a budget last year?
ANDREWS: In December, after the election...
VAN SUSTEREN: No, before the election.
ANDREWS: Well, we should have passed one before, but...
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, why didn't you?
ANDREWS: Because there weren't enough votes before the election. That's true. But after...
VAN SUSTEREN: But see, that's the...
ANDREWS: Let me make this point...
VAN SUSTEREN: That's the lack of courage!
ANDREWS: Well...
VAN SUSTEREN: That's in terms of -- and that's the lack of being, you know, sincere about this.
ANDREWS: I was ready to vote for this, but here's what happened in December. There was a deal that I think 58 senators were ready to vote for.
VAN SUSTEREN: December which year?
ANDREWS: Of '10, a couple weeks ago.
VAN SUSTEREN: Past the election! No, I'm not -- I'm talking about before the election!
ANDREWS: Well, it should have been done before the election, but the fact of the matter is, it could have been done in December...
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you sort of -- so you're sort-hard pressed to act -- being critical of the Republicans in many ways.
ANDREWS: I'm being critical because in a negotiation where one side says they want 100, the other side says zero, and the president moves from zero to 75 (SIC), that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
VAN SUSTEREN: Except then you go back to when the president said, I won. You're going to do it my way. And we -- you know, he's done the same thing to them.
ANDREWS: Not in this case.
VAN SUSTEREN: Not in this one, but in the prior.
ANDREWS: Why can't we do like we did with the tax agreement in December, when it was...
VAN SUSTEREN: When you got pushed up against the clock!
ANDREWS: Greta...
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, why -- and why...
ANDREWS: It was good for the country, wasn't it?
VAN SUSTEREN: No! You know, why don't you guys do your work when you're supposed to? I mean, you got pushed up against the clock with the taxes. Everyone knew for 10 years the taxes were going to expire on December 31st, so you wait for the last minute and put us through this big drama where you all...
ANDREWS: And we got a good...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... accuse each other...
ANDREWS: And we a good agreement. We got a good agreement I think has helped the economy.
VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, but with a lot of uncertainty (INAUDIBLE) business -- because a lot of people didn't know what was going to happen...
ANDREWS: I agree.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... with their taxes! Then -- I wouldn't be bragging about that tax thing!
ANDREWS: I would want to do that sooner...
VAN SUSTEREN: I wouldn't be bragging about not meeting deadlines!
ANDREWS: ... but it got done. And I think it's one of the reasons why we added a quarter of a million private sector jobs last month.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know what? I'd be absolutely ashamed if every time I did my work, I did it late!
ANDREWS: I don't like to do my work late.
VAN SUSTEREN: I'd be ashamed!
ANDREWS: I like to do it...
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: ... have to do our work, and I think I think we should settle on this tomorrow. I think the president's gone three quarters of the way. Let's not let Planned Parenthood debates get in the way of running the government. Let's not do that.
VAN SUSTEREN: Congressman, thank you. Nice to see you, sir.
ANDREWS: You're welcome.
VAN SUSTEREN: Straight ahead: Is President Obama leading, doing all that can be expected to prevent a government shutdown? How would other presidents like Clinton or Bush 43 fare? Senator Jon Kyl tells you how he thinks they may have handled this mess. The senator goes On the Record next.
Also, Republicans are blaming Democrats. Democrats are blaming Republicans. What is the sticking point? Is it really money, or is it something else? We have a live report.
Plus: He's been asking to see it for weeks, now Donald Trump demanding to see President Obama's birth certificate. Well, now Donald Trump is no longer just demanding, he's doing. He's doing what? He's going to tell you coming up. And stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
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