ANDERSON COOPER: Joining us now is Ken Cuccinelli, attorney general for the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Thanks very much for being with us, Mr. Attorney General.

What do you say to those sisters who say that this is being used basically just for political gain?

(CROSSTALK)

KENNETH CUCCINELLI (R), VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, it's certainly not being used for political gain.

It's a tragedy. And it's happened before in Virginia, Virginia Beach most notably. It -- it really is just one example of the failure of the federal government to move these people out. I'm glad that Secretary Napolitano is looking closely at why this person, who was in their custody, was not processed through or at least held. Obviously, it had terrible consequences here.

But there's no politicization here. This is just facing up to facts.

COOPER: But is there anything...

CUCCINELLI: ... and dealing with them as best we can at the state level.

COOPER: Is there anything new, though, in what you came out to say this week? You're basically saying that police can -- can ask...

CUCCINELLI: You mean the opinion, the legal opinion?

COOPER: Yes, that -- yes, the legal opinion...

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

COOPER: ... that police can ask people about their immigration status. A number of police officials in your commonwealth basically said, well, look, we already do that. We can do that.

CUCCINELLI: Right. I don't think there's anything new.

We were stunned at what an explosion it caused. We were stating the law as it is already understood to exist. Now, law enforcement folks knew this. But the opinion...

COOPER: But why did you need then to come out and then have a press conference and come out and say -- and make a big pronouncement? A lot of people kind of thought, oh, well, it may be something new.

CUCCINELLI: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't -- oh, no, no, no. I didn't have a press conference over this. We just issued an opinion.

And I am required to issue those opinions when they're requested by legislators. Now, while law enforcement knew how this worked, legislators don't know how it works. Our local governments don't know how it works. And, frankly, most people don't know that a law enforcement officer can walk up to anybody and ask them virtually anything. But that doesn't obligate the individual to answer anything.

And the inquiry that I answered and gave a legal opinion on is whether or not law enforcement may inquire about immigration status, and they may in consensual encounters and when there's a traffic stop or a criminal stop that's legitimate, in any of those circumstances.

So, no, I agree with you. There wasn't anything new there. And, frankly, we were stunned at the explosive reaction to it. Obviously, with Arizona happening last week, and then very shortly after my opinion came out, the tragedy in Prince William County, where I live.

And, for the record, I think I heard you misstate that. My opinion was out before the tragic accident happened in Prince William County.

COOPER: OK. I appreciate that clarification.

So, in terms of what your police can do in that state -- I'm sorry -- in the commonwealth...

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

COOPER: ... any -- even a consensual stop -- so, somebody doesn't have to be -- just for clarification, somebody doesn't have to have run a red light. It could just be a police officer going up and talking to somebody. Is that correct? And, then, in the course of that, they're free to ask?

CUCCINELLI: Yes. Let's be real clear. Yes. Let's be clear, though. They can't just pull them over to talk to them. If they're walking down the street and the police officer is walking down the street, they can engage anyone in conversation.

If there's a stop, a legitimate traffic stop, or a criminal stop for an investigative purpose, another purpose, the Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, says that, as long as they don't unreasonably extend that custodial questioning, they can ask questions about anything, just like in a consensual encounter.

COOPER: And given the past history, in the '60s, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, which you have talked about very openly...

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

COOPER: ... how concerned are you, though, about...

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

COOPER: ... racial profiling, about leaving this kind of, you know, casual conversation to -- leaving it up to abuse?

CUCCINELLI: Look, Virginia, given our history, is extremely sensitive to racial profiling.

We have not had any problem with this, even as some of our localities -- you had Corey Stewart on earlier, Prince William County -- almost 3,000 people have been deported with the help of Prince William County in the last three or four years just in one county. That's how many illegals were there. And we haven't had any problems with profiling, none, zero complaints that I'm aware of, legitimate ones.

COOPER: Given that -- given that your statement basically talked about what already exists, are you -- is the -- and you're not really adding anything new to the debate.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Are you then satisfied with the level...

CUCCINELLI: Right.

COOPER: ... of effort against illegal immigrants in the Commonwealth of Virginia?

CUCCINELLI: Not exactly. I -- you know, but we're taking incremental steps to ratchet it up slowly, very slowly. And there are other things I would like to see us do.

COOPER: What would you like to see?

CUCCINELLI: So, no is the answer to that.

But -- well, I would like to see our -- see us investigating whether E-Verify is effective and operates without many errors. I would like to see more of our localities voluntarily using 287(g) authority, which is memorandum of understanding with ICE, so that their local folks are trained, like Prince William County's, so we can start deportation processes locally, rather than waiting for the feds to do that.

COOPER: Why haven't more -- why haven't more municipalities taken -- taken the feds up on that? Is it concern over limited resources, concern over racial profiling?

CUCCINELLI: Yes. Yes.

No, the primary concern is one over resources. Others -- there's more than one, but that's the main one, especially in a budget- constrained era. All I will tell you that all we can do is identify them, just like in the Montano case. The feds still have to take them. Ultimately, the feds are the place we go to find out if these individuals are illegal, and they're ultimately responsible for processing them out.

The states do not say that we can do that. We don't allege to have any authority in that area. The localities don't. They're the bottleneck, is still the federal government, as it has been for years.

So, even if more localities were doing this, we may know who more illegals are, but it isn't doing any good, if the federal government isn't willing to step up to the plate and perform its obligations and deport folks who are illegally here.

COOPER: Attorney General Cuccinelli, appreciate you coming on. Thank you.

CUCCINELLI: My pleasure.

COOPER: Well, up next, an opposing view, Congressman Luis Gutierrez, who wrote a scathing critique of the current voices in Arizona and Washington. He joins us.

And can join us. Log on to the live chat right now AC360.com.

Also ahead tonight: the man who went on that shooting rampage in Connecticut, his own words. With the gun still in his hand, he called 911.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OMAR THORNTON, GUNMAN: Is this 911?

911 OPERATOR: Yes, I help you?

THORNTON: This is Omar Thornton, the shooter over in Manchester.

911 OPERATOR: Yes. Where are you, sir?

THORNTON: I'm in the building.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER: Later, super model Naomi Campbell in court, only, this time, as a witness for the prosecution. We will show you just why she was so jittery about testifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAOMI CAMPBELL, SUPERMODEL: I didn't really want to be here, so I was made to be here. So, obviously, I'm just, like, wanting to get this over with and get on with my life. This is a big inconvenience for me.

WOMAN: And you said you didn't want to be here. Why didn't you want to be here?

CAMPBELL: Because I don't really want to do anything about this, and I care about the protection of my family. And, as I said on television before, I didn't want to have anything to do with this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, growing calls this week from leading Senate Republicans for hearings about fighting illegal immigration by amending the Constitution, the 14th Amendment. Critics say it's hardly a realistic answer, because amendments takes years to ratify and a two-thirds votes in both houses of Congress -- the accusation, that lawmakers pushing to change the 14th Amendment simply are not serious.

Our next guest wrote a piece to that effect in The Huffington Post.

Democratic Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois joins me now.

Congressman, you heard the attorney general from the Commonwealth of Virginia. Do you think their support -- their -- their methods are valid, that police can just go up and ask people about their immigration status?

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: Well, I think we know who they're going to ask about their immigration status, and I think that's the danger.

And the attorney general probably should be very, very clear about just how it is that they go about and do that. Now, Anderson, if the new policy in the state of Virginia is to ask everyone that is stopped for any criminal behavior or what appears to be criminal behavior, I don't have a problem with that, quite honestly, if that's what Virginians elect their attorney general to do and want their police departments to do.

But I don't think that that is going to be the practical solution. Look, the fact is, Anderson, that this gentleman was released under the George Bush administration. He was arrested before for drunken driving. I want people like this immigrant from Bolivia gone, gone from our streets, gone from our nation. He abused his stay here in this country.

No one wants him here. So, that's really not the argument. The fact is, at the height of the George Bush administration, which is his last year of his presidency, they deported 370,000 people, approximately. That was the highest number in three decades, OK?

And in order to get to those 370,000, they had to basically go to 7/Elevens and ask everybody early in the morning if they had papers, and the racial profiling, this has been very well documented, not criminal elements, but just going out there and picking people up off the street.

Now, this administration of Obama is on record to exceed that number, over 400,000. So, what it tells you is that you can do a lot of enforcement, but your capacity has already been well-extended.

So, I think what we should do is stop looking at kind of these diversions, these distractions, about what should be a genuine discussion that we should have in this country, and come up with some good public policy that will give us a solution to the problem.

COOPER: Well, people in the states like Arizona say that's exactly what they want, that they're -- they don't want to be the ones bearing the burden of this, that they want basically you and everyone else in Washington to -- to be taking up your responsibilities and actually coming up with some sort of realistic solution here.

GUTIERREZ: Sure. And I cannot agree with them more.

I think that the federal government has not lived up to its standard of -- of applying the immigration and fixing our immigration. We should fix our immigration system.

But, I mean, as you said earlier, Anderson, come on. Now we're going to demonize children in the wombs of -- of their mothers?

COOPER: You actually say...

GUTIERREZ: We are going to change the Constitution of the United States of America?

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You kind of are challenging those Republicans who are talking about holding hearings on the 14th Amendment. You say, go ahead, hold the hearings.

GUTIERREZ: You know, when I wrote that article and published it yesterday in The Huffington Post, it was a challenge.

And here's why. Because, Anderson, when you listen to them, I think the American people are going to say, God, you know something? Attacking children unborn, especially from those who today are all -- all -- all really, really upset that, in California, they reversed the same-sex marriage, and that now that they found that to be unconstitutional and discriminatory, these are the people that are for the sanctity of marriage.

COOPER: But, look...

GUTIERREZ: These are the people that are for the sanctity of life.

And, yet, they're going to attack an unborn child and say, if that child is born, we will get rid of it from this country immediately.

COOPER: It's not fair to say -- it's not fair to say they're attacking unborn children. I mean, what they're saying is that we are providing an incentive for people to come to the United States and have a child, because, automatically, that child will be born an American citizen.

Isn't that providing an incentive for people?

GUTIERREZ: Good. Good.

Yes, but, Anderson, where is the proof that anyone is coming to this country? Do you see? We have already established that it is it a problem, that people are coming here with the sole express purpose of having a child.

Now, the Congress of the United States has dictated and has reaffirmed on almost every appropriation bill, every housing bill, every bill that comes out that undocumented workers, those that they deem to be illegally in this country cannot benefit from one government program.

Anderson, you remember when the president of the United States gave it a second try, a successful try, to reform our health care system, and he said on the floor of the House that undocumented, illegals, he called them, could never benefit from this health care. And, indeed, in the health care proposal, in our -- it says that they can't benefit.

So, what is the benefit, Anderson? The benefit is none. The fact is that they can't. And, Anderson, again, you see how we're having this conversation? We're having a diversion. We're having a distraction.

Here is what I would like to say. You want to end illegal immigration? Leave un -- leave the mothers that haven't had their children alone. You're the ones that say to us that you're for the sanctity of marriage. You're the ones that say to us that you're pro- life. You're the ones that say, let's care for the unborn.

And, yet, the consequence of that action, Anderson, is to -- those mothers won't go and seek medical attention if they think they're going to be deported. What, are we going to put immigration agents in the maternity wards across this country?

That -- look, Anderson, here's why I say it's a distraction. Because, even if we changed and meddled with the Constitution, which you so clearly stated isn't going to -- can't be done -- it would take 10 years to change the Constitution. By that time, we should have fixed this problem.

But let's say we did. Look, it won't put one more cent in someone's 401(k), so that they can have...

COOPER: Right.

GUTIERREZ: It won't -- it won't -- it won't stop the foreclosures. It won't get you a job. It won't get you off the unemployment.

COOPER: You're saying it's about...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTIERREZ: It won't reduce -- not having children, it won't reduce crime.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTIERREZ: Let's -- let's deal with -- let's get that Social Security card, so that it's biometric, so you can't get a job without it.

COOPER: I have got to leave it there.

GUTIERREZ: Let's put employers in jail. Let's -- let's do the things that really are going to change our immigration system. And let's allow, Anderson, that the undocumented, let's register them with the government, so we know who the good and the bad ones are, and we can keep the good ones and get rid of the bad ones.

COOPER: Congressman -- I appreciate your time. Congressman Gutierrez, thanks very much.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you.