BROWN: And David Axelrod is joining us right now.

David, welcome to you. As we watched this wrap-up, sort of the end of the day here, it seemed very much to me that the president was drawing a line in the sand for everybody, for both sides, frankly. Can you point to anything, any area where you felt there really was a concrete breakthrough today?

DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Well, first of all, just people sitting down and talking in the same room in a serious way about this issue was a breakthrough, rather than shooting salvos across, frankly, cable TV.

Everyone agreed we have got a very serious problem. Everyone agreed that it warrants answers. And there was some agreement on what those answers should be, for example, letting small businesses and people who don't have insurance through their jobs pool together to get a better deal in a competitive marketplace.

There are other things that we don't agree on. Now, there were some areas on which the president expressed some interest in exploring what he heard, some on medical malpractice, some ideas that Senator Coburn had. There are a number of areas in which there is a potential for additional compromise.

BROWN: But you sound very -- well, I guess much more optimistic than I felt and that I think I felt coming from the president or coming from Republicans, frankly, about this sort of moving toward any kind of compromise.

I mean, it did feel like a bit of a stalemate there at the end, and that the differences weren't just incremental or just political, but real philosophical differences. Do you really think that you're going to get people to cross over and get this done in the time frame that you guys are talking about?

AXELROD: The president's proposal itself very much mirrors one that was offered by Senator Bob Dole, hardly a raving Democrat.

So, you know, I believe that there is reason believe that we can get support for it. And he's willing to move on some issues. But you're right. There are some philosophical differences. A lot of them have to do with how we treat insurance companies, whether there are going to be some minimal standards, whether there's going to be the opportunity to appeal decisions when insurance companies deny care, how we deal with people with preexisting conditions.

That doesn't mean that everyone moves on, you know, in one bloc. And there may be folks on their side who say, you know what, there's enough there for me. Let's move forward. BROWN: Republicans, understandably, I think, were -- were pretty skeptical going into today. The president did make it clear that he's willing to urge the Senate to pass legislation using a tactic that would only require the votes of 51 Democrats. And listen very briefly to what Lamar Alexander, Senator Lamar Alexander, said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), TENNESSEE: We'll have to renounce jamming it through in a partisan way. And if we don't, then the rest of what we do today will -- will not be relevant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I mean, David, doesn't he have a point? If the president is prepared to ram it through with just Democratic votes, a simple majority, does that not undermine his claim to be seeking a solution that both parties really, truly can support?

AXELROD: Campbell, I would say a few things about that.

One is, both the House and the Senate have passed the major health care reform bills, and what has been discussed is using the reconciliation process to deal with some issues that have arisen from those bills. But every single Republican senator in that room, I believe, has cast votes for reconciliation, including for the largest tax cut in history that dwarfed this legislation.

And every major piece of health care reform in recent years has been done through that process.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But you don't think there's real danger...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: ... I guess, just for such a major, massive policy change, like this is going to be. You know this, that, if this were to pass, it would be -- it would be life-changing, groundbreaking, obviously, for a lot of people for both parties, and for, frankly, Congress.

Doesn't that make this a little bit different?

AXELROD: I think the American people believe in the principle, as was articulated by many Republicans on many issues along the way, in majority rule. All they want is an up-or-down vote. And they want to move on.

Let's have a vote. Let's finish this debate. Let's have an up- or-down vote. Let's not use procedural blocks to keep us from having an up-or-down vote. I think the American people say, you know what, let the vote be held. Let the majority rule and let's move on.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: That was David Axelrod from the White House for us tonight.

Coming up, Republican Paul Ryan, he blasted the president's plan today as too big and too costly. But, short of starting over, is there a way ahead at all? And he's going to join us right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: During today's health care summit, the Republicans' advice about President Obama's latest plan could be summed up pretty much in five words: Scrap it and start over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MINORITY WHIP: We just can't afford this. This government can't afford it. Businesses can't afford it.

KYL: Besides that, it's a job-killer.

ALEXANDER: Our country's too big, too complicated, too decentralized for Washington, a few of us here, just to write a few rules about remaking 17 percent of the economy all at once. That sort of thinking works in a classroom, but it doesn't work very well in our big, complicated country.

MCCAIN: My constituents and Americans now, who overwhelmingly reject this proposal, say, go back to the beginning. They want us to go back to the beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Republican Congressman Paul Ryan of Wisconsin was part of today's summit. And he is joining me right now from Capitol Hill.

Congressman, welcome to you.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: Hey, Campbell.

BROWN: I want to start with the same question I asked David Axelrod, which is, what, if anything, do you think was accomplished today?

RYAN: Well, I thought it was worthwhile. And what we accomplished is, you have to understand, we have been frozen out of this process all session long. So, this is really the first time we got a chance to air our concerns and offer our alternatives.

There's lots of program problems here, a lot of details that I don't think a lot of Democrats have heard. And we haven't had a chance to air these with the president. So, we got to say, here's what we have wrong with this bill. Here is what we would do differently. And we also got agreement on basically the problem, but we crystallized the differences in how we would solve that problem essentially is what we got out of that today, I thought.

BROWN: So, let me just ask you, though, your party chairman, Michael Steele, put out a statement tonight saying that this was another P.R. event for President Obama, at the expense of bipartisan progress and true health care reform.

I'm assuming, from what you just said, you disagree with him?

RYAN: Yes, I don't look at like that.

Look, we got a chance to get together to talk about one of the bigger issues of the day. We have huge problems with this particular bill. I think they are fully intending on jamming this thing through. I think that's what we got out of this. But at least the American people and the president of the United States and the Democratic leaders have heard our ideas and our alternatives and our concerns about this thing, because you have got to understand, Campbell, we have been frozen out of this process all session long.

BROWN: But that doesn't really get you anywhere, like airing your concerns, I guess. Where is...

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: My expectations were not that high.

BROWN: OK. OK. Mine were. I was kind of hoping you guys might get a little further along. Did you see any -- any areas where there might have been opportunity for agreement, beyond just sort of crystallizing what the problem is?

RYAN: If you're going to move this bill through, which is a confiscation of 16 percent of our economy, really a government takeover of health care, from our opinion, and I think it's a very justified opinion, and move it through with reconciliation, then maybe add one or two Republican ideas on top of it, no, I don't think that's a step in the right direction.

And what I got out of this and subsequent conversations I have had with rank-and-file Democrats since this afternoon is that they intend on just kind of moving forward. And, so, yes, that's a problem.

But what we got out of today is, we agree that there's a big problem that needs to be solved. There are problems in health care that need fixing. I just don't think this bill fixes the problem. I think it makes them worse.

BROWN: So, let me -- I guess the president has sort of put this deadline out there of six weeks to try to reach some sort of compromise.

Given what you're telling me right now, it doesn't sound like that there's anything to work out or work on over the course of these next six weeks.

RYAN: Based upon what we're understanding and what we're hearing, which is they want to continue to use the right to reconcile, which is a budget process, which is not reserved for this kind of a thing -- this is the largest social legislation we have had in a generation.

Reconciliation is used for reducing debt and deficits and things like that. So, based upon what we're hearing they're intending on doing, it looks to me like they're not interested in sincere compromise, because what we're saying is, let's scrap this thing, start over, and then let's sit down together, collaborate in writing legislation together...

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: ... bipartisanship.

BROWN: But you know that's not going to happen. The president has made that clear.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: He has a majority. So, he said, we're not scrapping it. We're not going to start over.

RYAN: That's right. That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: So, are you willing to come to the table and work with what's already there to try to get at least some of your ideas incorporated into that?

RYAN: No, that's the problem. The entire architecture of this program, this entire massive bill is so fundamentally flawed, from our perspective.

And I can tell you, I can walk you through the numbers. It is a fiscal nightmare. It will accelerate the bankruptcy of our country. It will give us a huge deficit. And, so, no, this is a fundamentally flawed bill. We should start over and go over...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: So, there's no hope of any compromise on this bill?

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: Let me put it this way.

BROWN: Let me ask you a couple other specifics. That's pretty clear to me what you're saying. I just want to make sure, that, as long as this is the starting point, there's nowhere to go?

RYAN: They're basically saying, we're jamming through 2,700 pages of law as we want to write it. And if you want to give us 30 or 40 pages, maybe we will take that. That's not compromise. That's domination.

For compromise to occur, the majority party has to collaborate with the minority party, write legislation with them. That's not what has happened. That's not what is happening now. And they're telling us they're going to move this thing through. And so they're telling us that's not what's going to happen tomorrow.

BROWN: So, let me ask you a couple of questions, if I can, about some of your ideas and some of the questions that have been raised about some of the things you put forward.

Medicare, for example, Paul Krugman of "The New York Times" says Republicans are speaking out of both sides of their mouth on this. On the one hand, you hear them say the program is sacrosanct, but on the other your plan seeks to pretty much dismantle Medicare.

How do you respond to that?

RYAN: Not at all. Not at all.

First of all, I put out my own plan to save Medicare, which the actuaries at HHS, the CBO says makes it permanently solvent. I say this. Don't compromise Medicare for people in and near retirement. So, I guarantee the current Medicare system for everybody over the age of 55.

And then what I propose, to make it solvent, because, as you know, it's going bankrupt, for people under the age of 55, give them the same kind of plan that I have got as a congressman, but give more support to people with low incomes and high health care costs, and not as much support for people who are wealthy.

That's what I'm proposing, guarantee it for current seniors, because they have organized their lives around it. And look what the Democrats are doing. The president's bill...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But only for current seniors, just to be clear on that?

RYAN: Yes, that's right.

BROWN: It does -- it would severely limit the number of people eligible going forward in the future.

RYAN: No, not at all. No, not in the least, not in the least. It doesn't limit, no, not in the least.

It says, 55 and above, you get the current system just as it is today guaranteed. The Democrats are saying, we're taking a half-a- trillion dollars out of the current system from current seniors as a piggy bank to spend it on this other new program.

And I'm saying, for people under the age of 54, like you and myself and our generation and our kids' generation, there's not going to be a Medicare for us, because it's going bankrupt. So, I have come up with a plan so that we can all have a Medicare program. It's just like what I have got as a congressman.

I get a list of plans certified by the federal government. I pick.

BROWN: Right.

RYAN: That's what we're proposing for Medicare. Medicare will give seniors a list of plans to choose from. It will give them a payment to buy that coverage with them. And then it will give more coverage for people with low incomes and high health care costs, so that every single person eligible for Medicare gets comprehensive health insurance under the plan I'm proposing.

BROWN: Right. Well, unfortunately, you're in the minority, for you. So, it doesn't look like your plan is going to go anywhere.

So, I guess, when all of this is over, you're going to go tell your constituents maybe next time? What do you tell your constituents after this? Because it's clear a majority may not like the plan that Obama's proposing, but they do want health care reform.

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: That's right.

So, Tom Coburn and I put out an alternative health care reform plan that achieves the goals we all want achieved, universal coverage, coverage for people with preexisting conditions, lower health care costs, a lower deficit.

BROWN: Right.

RYAN: We have sent this plan to the president two or three times this past year, but we have had no bites, no interest.

BROWN: I don't know why.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: No, I mean, you are in the minority. You're a Republican.

RYAN: Yes.

BROWN: Obviously, he's going to support his plan over yours.

But we appreciate your time tonight.

RYAN: You bet.

BROWN: Congressman, thank you for coming on.

RYAN: Thank you.