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Reps. Harman & Hoekstra on Yemen

By The Situation Room

WOLF BLITZER: Is the United States looking at a new front in the war against terrorism?

After the failed airliner bombing plot, there are now new concerns about Al Qaeda finding a -- a real haven in Yemen.

Joining us now from Los Angeles, Democratic Congresswoman Jane Harman of the Homeland Security Committee.

And joining us from Grand Rapids in Michigan, Republican Congressman Peter Hoekstra of the Intelligence Committee. He's just back from Yemen.

Thanks to both of you for coming in.

What's the most important thing, Congressman Hoekstra, you learned in Yemen?

REP. PETER HOEKSTRA (R), MICHIGAN: Well, I think the most important thing is exactly what the president has identified -- Yemen is a new front in this threat from al Qaeda. The al Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula is a real threat. And I think the other thing that we learned is that the detainees that were released from GITMO are kind of the core group of the al Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula and they, along with Awlaki, the American-born radical imam, have kind of made as a priority for al Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula attacking the United States of America. BLITZER: Is it time, Congresswoman Harman, for the U.S. to sent troops to Yemen as the U.S. has gone in Afghanistan, for example?

REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), HOMELAND SECURITY CMTE.: No, I don't think so, but we have ratcheted up our cooperative arrangement with a very weak Yemeni government. I tried to go to Yemen also in November, but because my itinerary changed at the last minute, they did not welcome the visit of me and several other members of Congress. I'm glad that Peter got to see it.

Peter and I have traveled to all the garden spots like the tribal areas of Pakistan and Syria and I think he was on the North Korea trip and Libya over the years. It is impressive to see what our intelligence community and particularly the CIA does abroad. I want to send my condolences again to the families of the seven CIA agents who were blow up by a suicide bomber in east Afghanistan.

But let me say about Yemen. I agree that, and as I put it, Yemen is the new Fatah, it is the new -- another new dangerous ungoverned area for al Qaeda and other terror groups. That does not mean all our attention has to be focused there, because al Qaeda is a global threat. It's a different threat from 9/11. It's not a top down organization anymore. We've decapitated a lot of its top leadership, but it is equally dangerous and it is trying to recruit Americans as well. So yes, our attention has to be paid to al Qaeda and to Yemen.

BLITZER: Fatah being that area in Pakistan, the federally administered territory where al Qaeda, the Taliban, have established a significant base. Congressman Hoekstra, have you been briefed by the Obama administration about what's going on since that failed airliner attack on Christmas day?

HOEKSTRA: We've had a couple briefings since that time. I had one in Washington, D.C., and then obviously of course when I was in Yemen. I will tell you, Wolf, that I don't believe that the administration has been as open with Congress and briefing us either on what happened in Detroit, but more importantly they haven't been as open with us as what I'd like on Ft. Hood. We really have not had any briefings on Ft. Hood since that tragic occurrence almost two months ago. That also had ties to Yemen, it has ties to Awlaki. I think that we need to be able to get the full picture.

I think as you listen to the dialogue between Jane and I, the hopeful thing for America is even though as individuals we may - individual policies we may have differences of agreement, but on foreign policy, we find ways to work together and to get things done and do it in a nonpartisan way, because in fighting al Qaeda in this new threat in Yemen, we need to do this together, Republicans and Democrats, and working with the white house.

BLITZER: Jane Harman, we just got a picture in of the president meeting with his counterterrorism adviser, there you see John Brennan, 25 years in the CIA, a career professional. Do you agree with Congressman Hoekstra that the administration is not briefing you adequately? HARMAN: No, I don't. In fact, I'm surprised to hear Peter say that. I've been in classified briefings since Ft. Hood by the FBI and the National Counterterrorism Center and other groups, and I remember bipartisan attendance at those briefings. I'm not sure whether Peter was there. I haven't been in Washington since the Christmas bomb plot, so I haven't had the classified briefing, but I sure have had conversations with key administration officials by phone. I know I'm not the only person and I know it's not Democrats only who have been briefed. I'm aware, for example, that Senator Susan Collins has had briefings since that. So I don't think so.

I also want to commend the president for ratcheting up actions against al Qaeda on his watch in the last year, and I think that we have foiled a lot of important plots. Obviously this one we didn't foil. Kudos to the passengers on that plane for stopping the plot, but an engaged citizenry will always be part of our arsenal. I'm glad they were aware of what was happening, but, for example, the Zazi plot in Colorado and New York was foiled. The Headley plot in Illinois was foiled and I just heard on your broadcast, Wolf, that the five folks from Virginia, who were perhaps planning to carry out attacks in Pakistan on Pakistan as part of a Taliban plot have been arrested there, and I'm sure we're cooperating there. So we've had successes, Peter knows this, and I want to commend or intelligence community for trying to get it right.

BLITZER: Congressman, we don't have a lot of time but I've got to ask you this question, because you know you're being slammed by a lot of Democrats, even some others, for using this issue, the Obama administration's record in fighting terrorism, for fund-raising. You want to get the Republican nomination to be the next governor of Michigan. Looking back on that letter you sent out seeking funds, was that a mistake, you think, so quickly after this incident?

HOEKSTRA: Well, it's kind of interesting, Wolf, you're right, they're slamming me. They don't like where I've taken them on policy, but if you look at the president's own campaign website, use on one side it's the president talking about national security. Right next to it, it says "Donate now." What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If they think I did something wrong, then the president is doing the same thing. You know, I think. Let's talk about the policy here. There are major policy differences that I think we can work through together in a bipartisan way, we need to focus on the policy, we can do it and the American people expect us to work through this.

HARMAN: Wolf, can I comment on that?

BLITZER: Yes.

HARMAN: Well, Peter, let me just say to you, this is your friend Jane talking to, we have worked on a bipartisan basis for years, I didn't know anything about this letter until I heard about it on a news broadcast. I have it in front of me, you talk about the brazen and naive pledge to close Guantanamo Bay, as one you've worked with, I think if we really want to do counterterrorism right, we have to eliminate one of al Qaeda's top recruiting tools, that's Guantanamo Bay. I think we need to close it, as the president has promised, and I think we carefully need to evaluate where all the detainees go. I'm against sending them back to Yemen.

HOEKSTRA: As we've talked about, Gitmo is one of the policy areas where you and I disagree. I don't believe bringing these people to the United States will lessen the recruiting tool by changing the zip code from Guantanamo Cuba to either Michigan or to Illinois. If you go to the al Qaeda website or if you go to Awlaki's website, he doesn't talk about Gitmo, but other things he's using to recruit radical jihadists.

HARMAN: Gitmo has used worldwide, as you know, as a recruiting tool for those who would harm us and it doesn't have a zip code. It's outside the reach of U.S. law. We never had a careful legal framework around how to detain and interrogate people. Now I hope we will get one. I'm not talking about everyone coming to the U.S., but I'm saying that anyone who goes to Yemen has to be detained and kept in custody, which the six people sent by this administration, have been. So I think it is appropriate to consider moving all the activities at Gitmo under the rule of law. I think that that projects our values, and I think --

BLITZER: But Congresswoman, you don't want to send some of those detainees who are Yemenis back to Yemen, do you?

HARMAN: Not now. I've read that John Brennan wants to reserve the right to do it at some point. I agree with that, but I want to note that the six Yemeni detainees sent during the Obama administration are in custody in Yemen under careful agreement that we have struck and they are not on the loose and not organizing.

BLITZER: We're out of time. But Congressman Hoekstra, you think it was a blunder by the Bush administration to send some of those detainees to Saudi Arabia or Yemen? It's because some have become leader of al Qaeda in Yemen.

HOEKSTRA: I think it's an ill-advised strategy for the Bush administration to have sent them back. I think sending the six back a couple weeks ago was also a mistake. Jane said it in the beginning. They have no authority. Some of these may have been -- my expectation is they will find their way to the battlefield. The president should release the studies, the detailed studies that have been completed by the military on the recidivism rate to how many people we have released under the Bush administration and the Obama administration have found their way back on the battlefield. I think that we would all find those numbers to be of great concern.

BLITZER: We're going to have a major discussion in the next hour with a lawyer who represents many of those Yemeni detainees still at Guantanamo. Congresswoman Harman, thank you, and Congressman Hoekstra, we're glad you're back safe and sound from Yemen. Thank for you joining us as well.

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