MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid‘s saying he thinks he has found the answer on health care, but can he convince 59 other senators he‘s right? And can they, in turn, convince 218 Democrats in the House of Representatives? In a minute, U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich is going to be here, but first Democratic senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri. She sits on the Commerce Committee and the Aging Committee.

I haven‘t seen you in a while, Senator, so I‘ve got to get an update.

First of all, I want to quote you a couple quotes of your colleagues. Here‘s Dianne Feinstein of California, coming out of that caucus you had yesterday. "There was no explanation, it was sort of a, Go team, go," she described the meeting. Ben Nelson of Nebraska said, "General concepts, but nothing very specific at all."

So given, well, whatever you‘ve got at hand, are you hopeful that you could vote for the health care bill that comes to the floor eventually, Senator McCaskill?

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: You know, I‘m pretty optimistic. You know, we‘re all waiting for the financial analysis because at the end of the day, that‘s what this is all about. It‘s about saving money for Americans on health care costs and saving money for our government in the deficit on health care costs. So we‘ve got to look at the numbers, and as soon as we get the numbers, then I will make an analysis then. But I‘m pretty optimistic. This is hard, though. This is really hard.

MATTHEWS: OK, how will it change America for the better to pass a health care bill? I‘m going to give you half a minute here, but what is so good about this, the promise delivered of the Democratic Party for all these years going back to FDR? What are you going to deliver to the American people here?

MCCASKILL: We‘re going to reverse a trend that is killing most families in this country, and that is they‘re having to go in their pocket for more and more money for health care every year. We‘re going to reverse that trend. We‘re going to reverse the trend that is absolutely devouring us in terms of the deficit.

And we‘re also going to bring some insurance companies to heel here. We‘re going to stop some of the practices that have been so unfair, that have preyed upon people, make the system more competitive and more cost-efficient. So-but this is not easy stuff.

And by the way, people need to remember we are the governing party because we have diversity of opinion in our party. We‘re not pure. We have moderates and we have more progressives. And the reason we‘re governing right now is because we defeated moderate Republicans with moderate Democrats. And people need to be patient about that and realize that compromise is not evil.

MATTHEWS: How will it be different in the hospitals in America? Will we-after this bill is passed, as you see it now, will we still have a lot of poor waking people waiting in emergency rooms for regular general medical care?

MCCASKILL: Over time, we will see more and more of those people at clinics. We will see more and more of those people with a primary doctor and with affordable coverage so that we‘re not paying the hidden tax that everybody‘s paying now for those people in the emergency room. The most expensive care we can give right now, we‘re giving those Americans without insurance. It‘s kind of stupid that we‘re fighting the notion that we want to quit paying a hidden tax and be up front about covering people in a way that is cost-effective.

MATTHEWS: Well, you represent the middle of the country, the heartland. I don‘t think you get any closer to the center than Missouri. Are the people of your state behind you on this?

MCCASKILL: You know, there‘s a lot of misinformation out there, Chris. The people are angry and cynical, in many instances for good reasons, and they are believing some of the stuff they‘re hearing, that the sky is going to fall. I mean, this place is full of Chicken Littles right now. The sky is falling, if you listen to the Republicans.

But we‘re going to pass this bill and the sky is not going to fall and things will be OK. And besides that, in Missouri, it‘s a 50/50 state, so I‘m kind of used to half the state being mad at me.

MATTHEWS: Well, let‘s talk about the Democratic Party. You know, you have real progressives in that party, liberals. You even a socialist in there, an independent socialist, Bernie Sanders, who calls himself that. How do you keep that wing of the party happy without giving them what they want, which is really-what they really want is the start of, basically, national health insurance? They want the start of the government taking a hand in providing health insurance. That‘s what I think. And they say so, some of them. How can you make them happy, the people that really want the government to begin to run some of this health care?

MCCASKILL: Well, no one‘s going to be really happy here. That‘s the process of legislating. It‘s about compromises.

And I think the president really helps here. You know, people need to step back and remember, so many things this president is doing is what he campaigned on. This is what he said. And he said no universal health care, no single-payer health care. He said that during the campaign, that he was opposed to single-payer.

So, I think, as we have worked through the compromises in our caucus, the progressives understand that everybody‘s going to have to bend a little to get to that final product that we can get across the finish line for the American people.

MATTHEWS: Will the president have a health care bill to sign come the new year?

MCCASKILL: Yes, I believe he will. Now, you know, we have no margin of error here. And everyone‘s tired. And tensions are high. And it is a partisan food fight.

You know, this is a rip-roaring partisan food fight. So, I hope that everyone stays calm. But what I have been encouraged about is, everyone wants to stay and work. No one is complaining about staying here on weekends. And people are even willing to stay through Christmas, if we have to, to get this done.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

MCCASKILL: And that‘s a good thing.

MATTHEWS: Well, merry Christmas, Senator.

MCCASKILL: Merry Christmas to you.

MATTHEWS: Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri, thank you. Thank you. for coming on HARDBALL.

Let‘s bring in U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, one of the real progressive voices in the Congress.

Can you, sir, ever see yourself voting for any health care bill that could carry a majority of the House? I mean, blunt here, can you, because of your position, as a real progressive, a social Democrat, by most world standards, could you ever buy what most people in the Congress will buy when we finally get to the bottom line here?

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Well, to hear the latest plan out of the Senate, if they expand Medicare, so that people under 55 can buy into it-or 55 to 64 can buy into it, that‘s a positive step. I may be able to support that, Chris.

You know, it all depends on the details. If their benefits are going to be the same, if the out-of-pocket costs wouldn‘t be too high, if it‘s not a path towards privatization toward Medicare Advantage, you know, I may be able to support something like that.

As you know, John Conyers and I were the ones who wrote the bill that provides for Medicare for all. And, so, even though the single-payer plan is not what‘s before the Congress, to expand Medicare, so that people 55 and up would be-would have the chance to buy in, that‘s-that would be a step in the right direction, no question about it.

MATTHEWS: What they‘re talking about so far-and I don‘t know how it will end up, Congressman, is not that you‘re provided Medicare at the age of 55, but you can buy into it.

KUCINICH: Right.

MATTHEWS: How do you read that?

MCCASKILL: Well, that would be about $400 per person to be able to buy in at age 55. That could cover 25 million to 30 million people. That could be a good step, Chris, because, right now, people are paying, you know, $500 to $1,000 or more a month for private insurance.

So, even though the public option has gone by the boards-and I, of course, take exception to that-the expansion of Medicare, so that age 55 and up can buy-to 64 -- can buy in, that‘s a positive step, if they can in fact deliver that to the House of Representatives in a conference report.

MATTHEWS: You‘re a progressive. What is it-what is your sense of history about this kind of a fight? Is-you know, I look back, as you look back, and to the Great Depression, and what Roosevelt was able to do in very difficult times, to get Social Security through back in the time when it was seen as-well, it wasn‘t what it is today. It was sort of a last-ditch, if you really need it, you got it, but, today, it‘s much more a part of your retirement program.

Medicare, getting through that in the ‘60s, after Kennedy‘s assassination, where there was such an emotional desire to do something to carry on his agenda. If we get a health care bill passed in the Congress and signed by this president, how does that fit into this progressive, well, success story, I think you would have to call it. But that‘s what I call it.

What do you call it?

KUCINICH: Well, you know, if 47 million Americans currently without health care, and another 50 million are underinsured, if we can get more people to have health care, that‘s a positive step.

However, if, on the other hand, we‘re seeing the increasing privatization of our health care system-and, frankly, the bill that the House passed that I voted against was a $50 billion handout to the insurance companies, and basically helped to lock in a private insurance system-if we can‘t rescue a role for the public here, not by government owning all the hospitals...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

KUCINICH: You know, we have a government-run system. It‘s veterans -

· but by government paying the bills and in a Medicare-for-all structure.

You know, we‘re not going to have Medicare for all. The president made that clear. But if-Chris, if we at least we can take a step in that direction by giving people 50 -- age 55 to 64 a chance to buy in, then we‘re reconnecting...

MATTHEWS: OK.

KUCINICH: ... with some of those ideals that go back to the great days of-of FDR.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you so much. Merry Christmas, Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio.

KUCINICH: Thank you. Same to you, Chris. Thank you.