RACHEL MADDOW: Joining us now is Senator Tom Harkin, chairman of the Senate Health Committee.

Senator Harkin, we‘ve been really looking forward to getting you on the show. Thank you so much for your time tonight.

SEN. TOM HARKIN (D-IA), HEALTH COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Rachel, good to be with you.

MADDOW: You need 60 votes to overcome the Republican filibuster and start debating this bill. Do you think you have the 60 votes?

HARKIN: Rachel, to put it in baseball terms, we rounded third and we‘re heading to home.

(LAUGHTER)

HARKIN: And I‘ve got to tell you: no member of our caucus is going to want to be the one person that stops this from getting to home plate. We‘ve all had our input. We‘ve all had our debates. But I believe, now, the team is together. And our team is going to hold together and we‘ll have those 60 votes to move ahead.

MADDOW: There is, of course, a public option in this bill that was presented today to your caucus with the provision that states can opt-out of that public option if they want to. How happy are you with that element of the bill? Are you at all concerned that the opt-out provision might significantly weaken that public option?

HARKIN: Well, Rachel, it‘s like a lot of things. If I were the dictator in writing this bill, I wouldn‘t have written that in there. As you know, our bill that came out of my committee did not have that. But, again, in order to get the votes and to-to get some people on board, it was necessary to put that in there.

And so, it‘s a compromise. And I think it‘s-it‘s a reasonable compromise. Whether or not a state will vote to opt-out or not, well, it‘s up to the states. I would think most people in any state would want to have that competitive edge that a public option would present. So, I-quite frankly, I can‘t imagine too many states actually having their legislatures vote to decrease competition. If anything, they want increased competition and that‘s what the public option does.

MADDOW: Senator Harkin, you, of course, have a long and progressive record on health reform. Are there changes to make this bill more progressive that you or any other Senate liberals will be pursuing through amendments when it-if and when it does make it to the floor?

HARKIN: Rachel, first of the all, as the chairman of the committee and part of the team that‘s trying to get this bill through, quite frankly, I think we have a good product here. Our leader, Senator Reid, has done a great job in putting this together. And, sure, it‘s a compromised package. And so, I want to get it through.

When we go to conference with the House, then maybe we‘ll have to make some adjustments and some changes at that point in time. But quite frankly, the bill, as it is, is a bill that I can support and gladly support. Do I agree with everything in it? Not really. Like I said, I‘d like to move it perhaps in a different direction in many cases. But I recognize that we have to have the 60 votes and so, I‘m sort of being trying to be (ph) a Hubert Humphrey Democrat, OK, Rachel?

(LAUGHTER)

HARKIN: He always said-he always said, "If you can‘t get a whole loaf, by gosh, get a half loaf, and then we‘ll go after the rest of the loaf later on," and that‘s what I intend to do.

MADDOW: Well, in terms of that-in terms of that loaf, there‘s, of course, this first procedural vote to get the bill to the floor. You‘re saying tonight that you feel like you‘re rounding third and heading toward home on that one, that it looks like it will go to the floor. There will, of course, be a second procedural vote on whether after debate-whether or not this bill comes up to a final vote.

If there are not 60 votes at that point, if Senator Lieberman, for example, follows through on his threat to filibuster at that point, this could be passed through reconciliation. That would mean it would only require a majority, 51 votes.

Do you think that would mean we‘d get more of that loaf then? We‘d get a more progressive bill because nobody would have to woo conservatives, like Lieberman and Nelson, anymore?

HARKIN: Not really, Rachel. That would probably be the worst thing that we could do right now because if-because of deadlines and dates, if this were to go to reconciliation now, it would not be written by my committee, which is a very progressive committee. It would be written by the budget committee. And it wouldn‘t even go it our committee. And that has all kinds of implications for how this bill might be drafted by the budget committee.

The other thing is, if it goes to reconciliation, all of the things I‘ve worked so hard on for prevention and wellness, and trying to put more emphasis on keeping people healthy rather than just going to the hospital and fixing them up, all of that would fall by the way side. And I think this is one of the most important parts of this bill, is to start focusing on a health care system rather than a sick care system, which is what we have right now.

So, if we go to reconciliation, all of that falls by the way side. I‘ll tell you, we don‘t have to go to reconciliation. We are going to have 60 votes.

MADDOW: Including Joe Lieberman?

HARKIN: Including Joe Lieberman. We‘re going to have the 60 votes.

Look, just look at this bill we have here now. It cuts the deficit. You pointed out earlier-it cuts the deficit by $127 billion. It‘s going to cover 94 -- actually, 98 percent of all of the people in this country, when you factor in Medicare. It comes less than the $900 billion that the president had stipulated.

It has all of these insurance reforms: no more pre-existing condition clauses, and insurance company can‘t just drop you because you get sick, your children would be able to stay on your policy until they‘re age 26. We have all of these insurance reforms. Plus, we have all of the wellness and prevention programs in there.

To me, this is a good deal for the American people and I think that the more that they learn about what‘s in this bill, the more they are going to realize that this is really good for the American people.

MADDOW: Senator Tom Harkin, the huge news today, of course, is the content of the bill. I think you made some real news with us here on this show with your comments, especially on reconciliation. And I will tell you that I‘m going to call Senator Lieberman‘s office and tell him that you said his vote is there in health reform, and then, maybe he‘ll come and talk to me about his feelings on it.

Thank you for helping us make this news, sir.

HARKIN: Thanks, Rachel.