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Interview with Afghan President Hamid Karzai

By CNN

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Afghanistan. Does U.S. President Barack Obama suddenly find himself searching for a strategy?

Good evening. I'm Christiane Amanpour, and welcome to our new program. This week, we're going to focus on Afghanistan. Our mission is to take all that we've witnessed in the field and try to bring more depth and understanding to the stories that matter, to humanize the headlines and all the breaking news that's constantly bombarding us.

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And so today, an urgent new assessment by the U.S. commander on the ground in Afghanistan: More troops are required, he says, or the mission will likely fail.

We'll speak exclusively to the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, who's battling an insurgency, as well as these constant accusations of corruption and election fraud.

Funerals this morning in Italy for six of their soldiers, as well as mounting Afghan casualties show the human cost of the war there, as public support for it plummets across Europe and in the United States.

We'll also talk exclusively to the man tasked with finding a solution, U.S. Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke. We will ask them both: Is it still possible to win in Afghanistan?

First, President Hamid Karzai joins us from his palace in Kabul.

Welcome, Mr. President.

HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: The election commission just gave you above 50 percent, close to 55 percent in the recent election. Are you ready now to declare victory?

KARZAI: In terms of the percentage of vote declared by the election commission, well, I'm the first. But in terms of the announcement of the winner, we should allow the election commissions of Afghanistan to make that determination after they have done all their legal procedures.

AMANPOUR: Because they're still investigating the allegations of corruption. Do you think there's a chance that your percentage will go down, as some suggest, once the investigation is complete?

KARZAI: Well, we have to study the election, the voting system itself. If there is fraud committed by any side in the election, of course, that will be a very serious issue, and I'd very much want that investigated.

But if there's a political desire to take the -- to take the election to the second round, of course that's not acceptable.

AMANPOUR: And if there's a legal reason to take it to a second round, you will accept that?

KARZAI: If it's in the consequence of the vote of the Afghan people, if the vote of the Afghan people has no clear winner, then, of course, that's the will of the Afghan people, and the Afghan law says go to the second round.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you something else and whether you'll accept this. General McChrystal, the U.S. ISAF commander there, has now written a new assessment in which he is saying that more troops are required. Let me read what he's just said: "A properly resourced strategy is imperative. Failure to provide adequate resources also risks a longer conflict, greater casualties, higher overall costs, and ultimately a critical loss of political support. Any of these risks, in turn, are likely to result in mission failure."

That's General McChrystal. Do you support -- do you want more U.S. troops in Afghanistan?

KARZAI: I have seen General McChrystal's report. He came and presented it in full form some three weeks ago. I found some very important elements in that report that I fully back.

One of the most important was, rather than concentrating on killing and eliminating terrorists and the Taliban, the report talks of protecting the Afghan people, the -- the -- the communities, the civilians. This part has my full support and also, surely, the support of the Afghan people.

Where General McChrystal is asking for more resources, in all aspects, to boost the effort against terrorism, he has our support there -- there, too, fully.

So the overall report, as far as Afghanistan is concerned, is one that has the right approach, and we back it.

AMANPOUR: So that's including more troops. Let me ask you to take a listen to an interview I did with you in Kandahar eight years ago, just before you even became at that time interim leader of Afghanistan. Listen to this for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Mr. Karzai, here we are sitting in Kandahar, surrounded by tribal elders and leaders. In about a week's time, you're going to take the helm of a new government for Afghanistan, an interim government. The future is about to begin. What is going through your head right now?

KARZAI: It's an exciting time. It's a new beginning for Afghanistan after many years of disasters and bloodshed and suffering for our people. I think Afghanistan will be peaceful, will be stable. And it will be peaceful and stable because the people want it, the Afghans want it. And it will be peaceful and stable because the international community is helping.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Mr. Karzai, today that just seems so long ago, not just in years, but in what you predicted back then, that it would be peaceful and stable, that this would be an exciting new opportunity. Do you see how different things have turned out, how different the mood is, not just about Afghanistan, but about yourself?

KARZAI: Well, the -- much of what -- much of what I predicted for Afghanistan did happen. We evolved from a country without a government and straight structures into a country with a straight structure and a government with a constitution, with a democracy, with a free press, with a much better economy today. In 2002, when you and I were talking, Afghanistan's income per capita was less than $180, around $150. Today, it stands at nearly $460.

And -- and all of this was possible because of the help that the international community gave us, because of the help that America gave us.

Now, the other side of is, peace in the country, yes, we have not been lucky with that, and for reasons. The reasons are that our partners in the international community did not concentrate on the sanctuaries for terrorists outside of Afghanistan. We -- we said nearly five years to -- to six years not even agreeing upon the existence of sanctuaries beyond our borders.

Taliban, who laid down their arms and settled down back in their villages, were (inaudible) for no reason. They were harassed. They were intimidated. Villages were searched. Villages were -- were -- were intimidated. Naturally, that is going to have a repercussion, and we are suffering the consequences of that today.

AMANPOUR: Do you personally feel any sense...

KARZAI: Including under-resourcing the struggle.

AMANPOUR: Do you feel any personal sense of failure, this place is not peaceful and stable for reasons you've just announced, plus you, yourself, and your government is under accusations of corruption, the election is being investigated still? Do you feel any sense of failure from those heady moments eight years ago, when everything seemed possible?

KARZAI: Well, well, when you began a journey as difficult as that and with -- with as great hopes as -- as -- as we had in the beginning, and where we were all in a hurry, there was bound to be success, there was bound to be difficulties, there was bound to be failures.

We have achieved success in certain years, of which we together should be very proud, the Americans, the rest of the world, and the Afghans. There are difficulties that we have which we should try to overcome. There are problems -- there are failures that we have, which I'm happy to see there is -- there is a re-thinking in the United States, as well, on -- as to the causes of these failures and how to correct them.

AMANPOUR: Can I ask you a question? Because this goes to the heart of the matter. Obviously, the United States, Western governments have to decide now whether to put more troops into Afghanistan. And questions are being asked here in the United States and across Europe, why should sons and daughters be sent to die there, to be killed there for this war if even the government is not credible, if even their accusations of this massive corruption and -- and, frankly, failure in many of the -- of the vital organizations? And even General McChrystal's report says that, that the government is so riddled with corruption that it is as dangerous as the insurgency to the stability of Afghanistan.

KARZAI: I disagree with that completely. The -- the Afghan government is credible and legitimate. It's a government that lacks resources. It's a government that lacks capacity. It's a government that has to be built up further with the right kind of resources that we're lacking, especially in the sector of police, on which we were busy right from 2004 onwards with our partners in the international community to -- to strengthen and to -- to train, which didn't happen.

Attention to the police began to come only after immense bickering and arguments in which the Afghan side was asking for training of the police and the international side was avoiding that -- that responsibility.

AMANPOUR: Well, let me just ask you this...

KARZAI: Only from 2007 onwards, we have began to receive some support. On -- on corruption, ma'am, the part of corruption that is in the Afghan government, we fully take responsibility for. Afghanistan has that problem, and Afghanistan has to correct it. It's a -- it's a -- it's a government that has -- that has just began after three decades of war and lack of any institutional arrangement in this country.

And we are working hard to correct it. It will not be corrected tomorrow. It will not be corrected by accusations. It will be corrected by hard work and dedication on both sides. Now, I'm not going to take responsibility...

AMANPOUR: On that note, sir...

KARZAI: ... as the Afghan president or the Afghan people for the corruption in the distribution of international assistance by -- by -- by faulty contractual mechanisms, by awarding contracts from one to the second to the third to the fourth, by wastage of resources along the way. That's a problem that the international community has to fix. We will fix our problems, and our partners should correct their own problems.

AMANPOUR: On that note, we're going to have to leave it. And we will hopefully continue our discussion with you on another occasion. Thank you very much, indeed, for joining us, as the world watches what exactly is going to take place in Afghanistan.

 

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