BLITZER: All right, so, let's put the Canadian system and the American system toe to toe.

Here to discuss and to debate, Canadian Senator Grant Mitchell. He's a member of the Liberal Party representing Alberta. And U.S. Senator John Barrasso, he's a Republican of Wyoming. He's also an orthopedic surgeon.

Senator Barrasso and Senate Mitchell, thanks to both of you coming in.

Senator Barrasso, that Canadian system, at least based on Kitty Pilgrim's report, sounds pretty enticing, pretty appealing. What's wrong with it?

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Well, the new president of the Canadian Medical Association say that it's imploding. There are so few doctors there because doctors leave Canada to come to the United States and practice -- 33,000 patients left Canada last year to come to the United States for care because the waiting lines were too long.

In Calgary, they just cut off 2,000 cataract operations, said, no, we're not going to pay for them this year. Tough. If you don't want to wait, just go to United States, pay for your care there.

So, the Canadian system is free. While it's free, it's very expensive in terms of taxes. BLITZER: All right. Go ahead, Senator Mitchell. How do you respond to that?

GRANT MITCHELL, MEMBER OF CANADIAN SENATE: (AUDIO GAP) ... patient care urgently. And any procedure that you need, you will get, and you don't wait any longer than your doctor would require you or would think is reasonable to wait.

The fact of the matter is that the Canadian system is -- maybe is held in highest regard by the vast majority of Canadians. This system is one of the best systems in the world. And the kinds of evidence that or suggestion that the senator is making simply is not indicative of the quality of that system.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Well, let me press on the point that Senator Barrasso made, Senator Mitchell. Why are so many Canadians crossing the border coming into the United States for treatment?

MITCHELL: Actually, I think you will find that relatively few Canadians are crossing the border.

What -- Canadians are getting excellent health care where they are. What he fails to point out is that 40 million Americans are not covered by their health care system. Every single Canadian is covered by our health care system. And our health care system gives top- quality care.

It was pointed out we're one of the top in the world. We have a longer life span. We have lower birth mortality rates in Canada than in the United States. In all these indicators, all these indicators, we have a very, very strong health care system. You go to Wyoming, for example, there are some...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I will let you get to Wyoming in a second.

But let me have Senator Barrasso specifically respond to that last point.

It may not be perfect, he says, Senator, but you know what? Everybody has health care. Everybody has health insurance in Canada. No one needs to simply go to an emergency room at a hospital to get treated for relatively minor injuries.

BARRASSO: But in British Columbia, the current wait right now to see their primary care doctor is four months. The wait then once you see that person to see a specialist is another four months.

I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I have operated on people who come to -- Canada. The number of CAT scans and MRIs and the lithotripsy machine for kidney stones in the United States far superior in terms of the availability. People don't want to wait. That's why people with cancer from other countries come to the United States, because the wait time is less, the screening is better.

Very few women in Canada have mammograms compared to the United States. So the detection of the cancer, it takes longer. And then the life expectancy after that cancer is diagnosed is less than for women in Canada than it is in the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I'm going to go back to Senator Mitchell in a moment, but how do you explain that people live longer in Canada than they do in the United States?

MITCHELL: Because the fact...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Hold on.

I want to ask Senator Barrasso to respond to that.

BARRASSO: Yes.

Well, in terms of -- you've got to look at quality of life. You have people waiting. And if you want to get an artificial hip in Canada, you're not going to get it if you're over a certain age You're not going to -- we call it trick or treat medicine there, because if that hospital runs out of money, Wolf, by Halloween, October 31, it's time to wait. And then you have still got to wait until the next year to get in line.

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: That can be cataracts. It can be artificial joints.

And if you do have the heart operation in Canada, your chances of not surviving are a lot higher than if you have the same operation in the United States.

BLITZER: Is that true, Senator Mitchell?

MITCHELL: No, that is not true.

The fact is that Canada provides outstandingly good health care, and that everybody gets it. There's 40 million Americans -- 49 million Americans actually who aren't covered by a health care program. So, when you start to talk about people not getting services or immediate -- what are we saying in the U.S., what are you saying in the U.S. about those 49 million people?

How can we simply disregard those people or you simply disregard those people? The Canadian system, as I say, is about -- as you have said, is about half as expensive as your system. Everybody is covered. We have portability, so when I change jobs, I don't have to worry about whether I'm going to have health care or not.

(CROSSTALK) MITCHELL: I have had the same doctor for 33 years because I have been able to change jobs and keep my health care plan at the same time.

BLITZER: Senator Mitchell, you were going to say something about Senator Barrasso's home state of Wyoming. What's the point you want to make?

MITCHELL: Well, the point is that, in Wyoming, Wyoming has the worst record of dealing with heart attack cases in the United States.

BLITZER: Is that true, Senator Barrasso?

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: I find it hard to believe. We have a helicopter that sends out -- we have 500,000 people, Wolf, over 100,000 square miles. We only have 24 hospitals. It is why I work so hard on rural health care issues, because we need to make sure we have more physicians in a number of small communities because of rural issues.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Senator Mitchell, what is your source for that charge about the state of Wyoming?

MITCHELL: Absolutely. It's health care statistics from United States statistics sources.

BLITZER: And, specifically, you're saying that, what, Wyoming is in horrible shape as far as heart attacks are concerned? Is that what you're saying?

MITCHELL: It has the lowest -- the worst case rating for dealing with health care heart attack cases.

BARRASSO: If I had a heart attack, I would much rather be in Wyoming than here in the District of Columbia. I have great respect for all of the physicians in Wyoming. They do an incredible job.

And when people in Canada get sick, they want to come to the United States for care. If people in Canada have cancer, including a member of the parliament, she decided to come to the United States for care, even though she's a big supporter of the Canadian health care system.

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: She said, I don't want to wait as long as I'm go to have to wait, if that's the way that your elected members are treated, and she knows that the best care for her is going to be in the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: It's interesting. In our system, as a senator, I get the same health care coverage as a single mother in my province gets. In your system, you get a very different health care system.

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: I get the same one as the janitor in this building and the same one as the public rangers in our national parks, absolutely the same choices.

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: You get a very different system than the average person in your -- and in your state.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Senator Mitchell, as a U.S. senator, Senator Barrasso gets the same -- access to the same federal government health insurance program that all federal government employees get, whether you're a senator or a post office worker.

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: And you know what that is. That's a public health care system. And it's publicly funded.

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: No, it's private choices. No, it's not a public system.

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: It's not a government system. No, I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Everybody has a choice.

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: What about military, your military hospitals and your veterans hospitals? Are they not a public health care system? Do they not deliver excellent care? Of course they do. And so does our health care system.

(CROSSTALK)

BARRASSO: I think there's a lot of improvement that can happen with the VA system. I think they do great with trauma, but certainly they do not do the kind of work that I would want to see in terms of an acute illness or a heart attack.

BLITZER: Let me just wrap this up, Senators, first to you, Senator Barrasso.

Is there anything that we in the United States should take away from the Canadian example and learn from Canada?

BARRASSO: Yes, I think what that earlier report talked about was lawsuit abuse. They're not ordering a lot of expensive unnecessary tests to protect themselves against unnecessary suits.

But in the United States, you have a lot of money spent on malpractice insurance because of abusive lawsuits and a lot of more money spent on tests, on medical tests, Wolf, that don't actually help somebody get better, but they are done to protect the doctor in case there is a suit. So, I think we can learn a lot from Canada there and we ought to adopt those approaches.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Senator Mitchell, I will give you the last word. Anything that Canadians should learn from the American health care system?

MITCHELL: The Canadian system is an excellent system. We have -- we have been very, very happy with that it has delivered excellent health care services.

I'm not convinced that there aren't some technical and other things that we can learn from the U.S. system, but our system is in fact far superior.

BLITZER: We will leave it on that note. Good discussion.