DAVID GREGORY: But first, General James Jones, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

GEN. JAMES JONES (RET.): Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

MR. GREGORY: Big news; North Korea, the two American journalists back home. This was the scene as it played out in Los Angeles on Wednesday, former President Bill Clinton accompanying the two journalists back home. He has since come back east and you have been able to fully debrief him. What can you say you have now learned about North Korea and specifically Kim Jong Il?

GEN. JONES: Well, I think that first of all I want to emphasize this was a private mission. And we can get into that if you'd like. But this was a private mission where--in, in which there were no official or unofficial messages sent by this government or by President Obama. So we celebrate the fact that we've had these--this great reunion and--but we can say that--we can also report that the president did--former president did spend time with the Korean leader, that he appeared to be in control of his government and, and his--he sounded very, very reasoned in terms of his conversation.

MR. GREGORY: His health is a big issue, right?

GEN. JONES: His health is a big issue, but obviously we didn't have any time to make an assessment there. But he seemed in control of his faculties. And the president, the former president was able to engage him on a number of subjects. As you know, he had very--relationship with his father and--when he was in the--when he was--when the president was in office, and so he was able to convey his own, his personal views with regard to the importance of the issues of the moment, which is making sure that nuclear weapons do not appear on the Korean Peninsula.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let's talk about that, the nuclear issue. It must have come up during their conversations. What was said?

GEN. JONES: Well, I think--I don't want to speak for President Clinton. We're in, in the process of getting, getting his thoughts as well, we haven't completely finished with that. But, but it's clear thus far that he did press home the fact that if North Korea really desired to rejoin the family of nations in a, in a credible way, that the, the, the way forward is not to, to build nuclear weapons and to rejoin the, the six party talks, and within the context of those talks that they could have a dialogue with the United States.

MR. GREGORY: So North Korea has said they don't want to be part of these six party talks anymore. Just a couple of weeks ago they were exchanging insults with the secretary of state, Hillary Clinton.

GEN. JONES: Right.

MR. GREGORY: Do--did they give an indication to the former president that that's changed, that they might be willing to come back now?

GEN. JONES: I, I think time will tell on that, David, to be honest. But I, I'm quite sure the former president was very articulate and persuasive, that the North Koreans know exactly what the world, the global community, particularly the members of the six party talks expect, and there is a path for them to, to, to move forward.

MR. GREGORY: Any positive signs, though, from the talks?

GEN. JONES: We'll have to wait and see.

MR. GREGORY: Is there a deadline, in your mind, for when they need to come back?

GEN. JONES: I, I think this is such, this is such a big issue that--and we're making such good progress with our relations with China and Russia and other countries to, to, to show them the, the, the, the wisdom of making the right decisions here. But it, it is up to them, and we--they know exactly what, what the end stage should look like.

MR. GREGORY: Let me ask you a little bit about the backstory. How did this first come up, the idea of sending President Clinton over there? You did a lot of vetting of this idea. What were your concerns and how did it come up?

GEN. JONES: Well, it, it actually came up through a private channel, through the communication from the two girls to their families. And evidently, the North Koreans implied that if former President Clinton were to take on this mission, that they would guarantee the release of, of the two girls.

MR. GREGORY: But it had to be Bill Clinton; couldn't be Al Gore, couldn't be somebody else?

GEN. JONES: They specified Bill Clinton. And, and so the president said, well, let's see if former President Clinton'd be willing to do this thing.

MR. GREGORY: So there were no reservations in your mind or the president's mind?

GEN. JONES: I, I think the, the president, from day one, gave us the task of trying to get those girls back. And, and that was, that really was job number one. And we thought that--and, and, and President Clinton, former President Clinton said he would be, he would take this on in a private way, and that's exactly what happened.

MR. GREGORY: But, but you're experienced with this. I mean, the North Koreans say things all the time and they don't live up to their agreements. How did you test that in fact he wouldn't come back empty, empty-handed?

GEN. JONES: Well, you know, ultimately, regardless of all of the, the, the, the backwards and forwards on this--and we did, we did have, we do have channels to talk to the North Koreans. We, we received a personal assurance of the leader that they would grant, in their terms, special amnesty, and that if former President Clinton came to North Korea that he would leave with those two girls. And ultimately, you say OK.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

GEN. JONES: Let's see, let's see which--let's see if they'll live up to their word. And they did.

MR. GREGORY: There's been some criticism of this mission, and it centers around this photograph. This was the picture that experts say Kim Jong Il wanted, and he got it. There is the former president sitting right next to him. Henry Kissinger writes this this morning in op-ed piece in The Washington Post: "A visit by a former president, who is married to the secretary of state, will enable Kim Jong Il to convey to North Koreans, and perhaps to other countries, that his country is being accepted into the international community--precisely the opposite of what Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has defined as the goal of U.S. policy until Pyongyang abandons its nuclear weapons program." Did this president just hand Kim Jong Il a propaganda victory?

GEN. JONES: I, I don't think so. I mean, maybe in Kim Jong Il's mind, and he'll play it out inside of North Korea anyway he wants. But we vetted this, this mission with the South Koreans, with the Japanese, the Chinese, with the Russians, and we have 100 percent support by all these countries. We--the president also--the former president also asked for the release of a South Korean detainee and the, the, the Japanese abductees, which we think would be also a great picture to see the reunification of those families, which we're very concerned about. So no, I don't--I, I, I just think that, you know, we wanted to get those girls out. The North Koreans gave us a, a path to that and the president of the United States said, "Look, we want these families reunified. They shouldn't be held in captivity." And, and by the way, if we hadn't done that, we'd be having a different conversation tonight because--today, because they would have--they would have said, "Well, you had an opportunity just, just to send the, the former president."

MR. GREGORY: All right. Well, to that point, former President Clinton, he goes to Pyongyang, he goes to North Korea, gets this result. If you want a breakthrough with North Korea, a breakthrough that's been so elusive to previous administrations, should President Obama go to North Korea and talk to the North Koreans now?

GEN. JONES: That's a--that, that is the--the future relationship of our two countries wholly dependent upon the ability of the North Koreans to understand where they are in terms of not only just the United States, but, but this big issue of nuclear weapons and...

MR. GREGORY: All right, but would you, would you rule that out as a potential for breakthrough?

GEN. JONES: I, I wouldn't speculate on, on hypotheticals. I--we are doing, we're doing the right thing with a whole family of nations. Proliferation is a big issue. It's a big issue in North Korea, it's a huge issue in Iran, and we are at the, at the center point of this, this, this debate. And it's a global debate, it is not just about bilateral relations. This is a very serious problem.

MR. GREGORY: Let, let me go through a few other hot-button issues in our remaining moments. In Pakistan an important al-Qaeda figure, a Mehsud, who was the head of Pakistan's al-Qaeda leadership, reportedly killed. Are you able to confirm that today?

GEN. JONES: I wish I could, to be honest with you totally. We think so. We, we put it in the 90 percent category, if you want. But Pakistan has confirmed it. We know there are some reports now from the Mehsud tribe that, that he wasn't. But the evidence is pretty conclusive.

MR. GREGORY: What, what does it mean to the United States' security?

GEN. JONES: Well, I think it's a--this is a big deal. And, and it's not only--by the way, it's not only happening in this part of the world, it's happening in other parts of the world as well with some--with a gradual coming together by the family of nations to reject terrorism as something that's acceptable. In terms of the region, it means that the Pakistani armed forces and the Pakistani government are doing quite well in terms of their fight against extremism. This was--Baitullah Mehsud was the public enemy number one in, in, in Pakistan, so it's their, their biggest target. And we've already seen evidence of dissension in the ranks about who's, who's going to follow him. This is--if this is--if this happened, and we think it did, this was a good thing.

MR. GREGORY: Is it still your belief that Osama bin Laden is in Pakistan?

GEN. JONES: That one's a little bit more elusive. We are still very much on the hunt. We think that he's still in that general region. But that's a, that's a tougher nut to crack.

MR. GREGORY: Let me...

GEN. JONES: But this, this was a big deal.

MR. GREGORY: Let me ask you about Afghanistan. General McChrystal, commander on the ground, is doing an assessment of the mission and what he needs to achieve that mission successfully. The question about the endgame, The Washington Post reports today about the long-term cost to America. "As the Obama administration expands U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, military experts are warning that the U.S. is taking on security and political commitments that will last at least a decade and a cost that will probably eclipse that of the Iraq war." What is the endgame in Afghanistan? What kind of time frame should Americans expect?

GEN. JONES: The endgame in Afghanistan is obviously to turn the responsibility for their security and economic prosperity and the governance over to Afghans as quickly as possible. We're doing that three ways. One is in March we announced a comprehensive strategy that wasn't only focused on troop strength and security, although there's a certain minimum there that's required, but also the, the cohesion of security, economic development and good governance and rule of law from local mayors all the way up to Kabul. We've generally done pretty well over time on the security pillar. NATO, the United States and 47 sovereign countries, are on the ground in Afghanistan. The U.N., NATO, the European Union, the World Bank, all, all sorts of nongovernmental organizations, all the instruments are there to turn this thing in the right direction. The question is, how do you work--get them to work more cohesively?

MR. GREGORY: Right.

GEN. JONES: And that's the new strategy. And, and, and if we can get that done--and we will know that fairly quickly. We're--we've published a new set of metrics--or not published, but they're being developed in, in concert with the congressional guidance. We have a, an envoy in--hard at work to frame this whole thing, new commanders, new ambassadors. And we think that it's going to change--it's going move in the right direction. I don't--I, I can't tell you...

MR. GREGORY: At least a decade, though? I mean...

GEN. JONES: No, no, no. No.

MR. GREGORY: ...should Americans really settle--it's less than a decade, you think, in terms of...

GEN. JONES: Yeah, I think, I think, I...

MR. GREGORY: ...our commitment.

GEN. JONES: You can't predict here where the tipping point is, just like we couldn't really predict it in Iraq. But it will--if it's done right and if it's done cohesively, the tipping point will be much, much quicker, much sooner than that. We will know whether this strategy is working in--within, within the--by the, by the end of the next year, and we'll be able to make some prediction--maybe some predictions at that time. But not before.

MR. GREGORY: General McChrystal wants more troops for Afghanistan. Will he get a skeptical response from President Obama?

GEN. JONES: General McChrystal is doing what all good commanders do when you take over a big job, you do an assessment. You--General McChrystal has the overall strategy that's been agreed to and he is making his commander's estimate on how to function within that strategy. And we'll just have to wait and see what he, what he has to say. But it, but it has to be--whatever, whatever we do is with the context of a new--a, a strategy that was agreed upon in March, and very--a very comprehensive one.

MR. GREGORY: Before you go, on Iran, are there new developments this morning about those three American hikers who strayed into Iran?

GEN. JONES: Yes, there are in the sense that the government has officially acknowledged that they have them in their custody.

MR. GREGORY: And that's news. That had not been disclosed before.

GEN. JONES: That, that, that is as of this morning, we do have that, we do have that confirmation.

MR. GREGORY: How does this administration deal with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Is he in a position, you think, with the political fighting, to engage with the West?

GEN. JONES: We certainly hope so. It--he is the figure of authority that we have to deal with. But it's clear that there's major, major problems going on--I won't say major problems, but major events going on inside of Iran that have to do with the election. But we have to deal with the figures of authority that are in position. We have sent strong messages that we would like these three young people released as soon as possible, and also others that they have in, in their custody as well. This is--these, these are innocent people. We want their families reunited, and we want it--we would like to have it done as quickly as possible.

MR. GREGORY: We'll leave it there. General Jones, thank you very much for being here.

GEN. JONES: Thank you very much.

MR. GREGORY: Thanks for being here.

GEN. JONES: My pleasure.

MR. GREGORY: Coming up next, how is the president's economic plan faring across the nation? Two big-city mayors. New York City's Michael Bloomberg and Newark, New Jersey's Cory Booker weight in on what they're seeing. Plus, our political roundtable, only on MEET THE PRESS.

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MR. GREGORY: Mayors Michael Bloomberg of New York City and Cory Booker of Newark, New Jersey, after this brief commercial break.

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MR. GREGORY: We are back now with a look at the economy and the president's stimulus plan and their impact on big cities across the country, and we welcome Mayor Cory Booker of Newark, New Jersey; and welcome back Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York City.

And, Mayor Bloomberg, I just want to again thank you for being here after such a day of tragedy in New York City yesterday, and that midair collision between a tourist helicopter and, and a single-engine plane into the Hudson. This was the image of the impact yesterday and what led to, as you told New Yorkers and around the region, a grim recovery effort as that went forward yesterday. And as we look live here this morning, that recovery effort is ongoing now. What can you tell us is the very latest about what you've learned?

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I): Well, the most important thing at this point is to make sure that our divers don't risk their lives, because this is not a rescue effort, this is a recovery effort. The--both aircraft are in 30 feet of water. We haven't even found one of them yet; visibility's only a couple feet. We do think we found the helicopter, we've recovered a couple of bodies. We'll continue to search until we get everybody out. But the bottom line is it's going to take time and we want to take care.

MR. GREGORY: Nine people killed in total, including a 15-year-old boy, Italian tourists on that tour helicopter as well. It's such a terrible loss of life. And also, questions about unregulated travel in the air in that particular corridor. Are there some changes that should be made about the fact that there can be such unregulated travel there?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Well, the National Transportation Safety Board will do a complete investigation and figure out what happened and see whether measures should be taken. That, in the end, will be up to the FAA. They're the ones that set these rules as to where you can fly. These are very heavily used corridors. Helicopters are very important to the city and used all the time.

MR. GREGORY: For tourism. Yeah.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Tourists seem to love it. And, and for commerce. This is--may have just been an accident, a total tragedy; or maybe, in fact, if we had different procedures you could have prevented it. We've not had very many accidents in the area. The last one that was most noticeable was--notable was the plane putting down in the Hudson River, where everybody survived. In this case, we don't think it was survivable from virtually the instant the crash took place. And it's very tragic, as you point out.

MR. GREGORY: All right, let's talk about the economy now. The jobless rate now is at 9.4 percent nationally; some good news for the administration, that jobs are being lost at a, at a smaller clip than we've seen earlier on in the year. Here's the unemployment rate for your two cities: in New York City, 9.5 percent, pretty close to the national average; Newark, New Jersey, however, 14.3 percent. And it speaks to something that's happening around the country in cities. This is what Reuters reported last week: "U.S. cities...are now vexed by surging unemployment with 18 metropolitan areas recording jobless rates of more than 15 percent in June." That's according to a Labor Department report. "It was the sixth consecutive month that all 372 metro areas in a monthly survey registered increases in the rate. ... A full 144 metropolitan areas reported jobless rates of at least 10 percent in the month, up from 112 in May. A year ago, only six cities had rates that high. More than three-quarters of Americans," of course, "living in cities."

Mayor Booker, are you seeing recovery?

MAYOR CORY BOOKER (D): Well, look, there's--this is an economy and has a tremendous amount of pain. Unemployment is often the last thing that recovers. So we're seeing hope and possibility, most importantly, but we're not seeing the recovery yet. And what is good, though, is happening, is that the Obama administration is giving us a tremendous opportunity to reframe our city and to change the narrative of American cities. So while we're doing the blocking and tackling of trying to help people on unemployment, trying to find ways to expand opportunities of attracting business and the like, what we're also seeing is opportunities to stimulate a new economy within Newark. So one of the best examples is a new green economy. We really believe that if you're going to have the American dream in Newark, it's got to be a green dream. And so we're--attracted three solar companies to our city under my leadership. We've also started training people in weatherization and have people getting good union jobs doing that. We see opportunities to retrofit city buildings and reduce the costs of government and energy. So a lot of the streams of the stimulus money are setting the stage, in my opinion, to change Newark's economy so it's ready for the 21st century.

MR. GREGORY: Mayor Bloomberg, are you seeing recovery? You were here in March, you said there was a crisis of confidence. Do you see any of that changing?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Yeah. But let me first say something about what, what Cory can't say, but it happens to be true. He has one of the most difficult jobs in America. He's taken over a city where you've had many years of underinvestment and lack of foresight and terrible government, and he really is the future of Newark. With him, they have a chance to rectify things. Not going to be easy. He's got a tougher job than I do. In New York City, we do see some green shoots. Businesses are doing slightly better. But remember, we still have people losing their homes, we still have people losing their jobs. I'm encouraged for the future. New York is unique and the country is getting better and the president's programs, I think, are helping. But nevertheless, we can't walk away and say, "Well, all we got to do is sit back and it's going to get better." So we're trying to focus on helping small businesses by reducing their taxes and giving them loan programs, training people for the jobs that are available and not necessarily the jobs they had, making sure that when the other industries come back the people that we need will be there. And I think what you're seeing is we've saved $2 or $3 billion over the last few years because we thought that the good times would end. We're using that now to get through this tough period. But we're also working hard to attract businesses from around the world to come to us, because we have to have a future.

MR. GREGORY: Is the stimulus getting to the cities?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Well, in New York's case, the city's case, we've had a couple of billion dollars in what you'd call budget relief, mainly for education and Medicaid. We've had some stimulus monies, a small--much smaller amount for infrastructure and those kinds of things. I think the main thing that the stimulus program has done so far, however, is given the country hope that there will be more economic activity down the road. because remember, most of the stimulus money hasn't been spent yet.

MR. GREGORY: Hm.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: The infrastructure money we've got, the requirement was shovel-ready projects. We had some, we're actually putting it to work. We're trying to create new jobs, jobs that would not be there otherwise. But we do have a crisis of confidence, and I think this president can look back on six months in office and say, "I've gotten the country a little bit through that, I've given them some hope." We still have a long ways to go. Nobody's going to suggest the--should suggest that this is easy. But I think the--you've seen the worst and now, if you have worked in the past and made investments and diversified your economy, you're going to have a future.

MR. GREGORY: Let me talk about taxes. Mayor Booker, if the president wants to expand government with not just a stimulus program but also a massive healthcare overhaul, can he keep his pledge of not raising taxes on the middle class? Is that the responsible thing to do?

MAYOR BOOKER: Well, look, in our cities we're finding that the more we can create tax incentives, the more we can create tax-free zones, the more you stimulate economy, the more you create opportunity. If we're going to create competitive cities for the future, we've got to continue programs like the one started by Jack Kemp and supported by many Democrats, which was enterprise zones and things like that. So I'm hoping, and my conversations with the Obama administration is that they're looking at ways to create--may create more competitive cities so we can create--compete with the Mumbais, the Dubais, the Shanghais, cities like New York and cities like Newark. But the challenge is, is that when you want to do more and provide more as a government in terms of services, you've got to figure out a way to pay for it.

But let's take the reality of health care, for example. Right now urban hospitals are being crushed under the weight of paying for the uninsured, paying for undocumented immigrants. I've had two hospitals close in my city that sent out tsunamis in terms of waves of people that need help and need support. We've got to find a way to pay for these things because, unfortunately, the cost is getting passed on.

MR. GREGORY: Well--but that, but that's the question, can you do all of that? Can you relieve that crunch and just tax the wealthiest Americans, or do you have to extend that?

MAYOR BOOKER: You, you have to talk about the problem in the totality. If you don't have things like tort reform, if you don't have things like advocating prevention programs, if you start working more aggressively in the totality of the problem, I think you reduce the burden on the taxpayer. And that's why cost control...

MR. GREGORY: Right.

MAYOR BOOKER: ...is one of the most important parts of this conversation.

MR. GREGORY: All right. But I want to, I want to stay on taxes.

Mayor Bloomberg, this is something that you wrote in, in May in Newsweek magazine about sort of the challenges for President Obama. You wrote, "If [Obama] isn't afraid to throw traditional political calculations out the window--and risk seeing his poll numbers plunge into the 20s--he will earn many more long-term victories, and deeper respect and support from voters." Is he living up to that, or is this refusal to think about a middle-class tax hike inconsistent with that admonition?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Well, I think it's two separate questions. I think he is living up to that. My advice to him is there's two important things to do when you take office. One is to build a team, number two is to address the toughest issues right away, because then you have time to take unpopular decisions and win the confidence of the public back when your decisions turn out to be the correct ones. And he has. He can't take on everything, but he's certainly taken on a number of controversial things here. And he's been dealt a tough hand, although it's fair to say that every president coming into office has a tough hand. This is not an easy job. I think he is doing exactly what he should do. He'll have some failures. He won't--and there's no easy answers. Everybody wants more services, nobody wants to pay the--pay for them. You can only get so much money, so much blood out of a stone. You have to share the burden. We have to make sure that we're competitive with countries overseas, as Cory said. We're in an international competition for the best and the brightest and for jobs.

MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: And this country's immigration policy, for example, is driving the industries of the future overseas. If you take a look at where the most innovative medicine is being done, it's being done in India. And an awful lot of the doctors doing it were educated here.

MR. GREGORY: But does the president have to look beyond the rich for taxes?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Oh, yeah. They--there's just--the middle class bears the real burden here. That's why the middle class is getting hurt. And what you, you keep hearing in on--I take the subway in the morning.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: And people, everybody talks about what their complaints are. It's New York. And paying taxes is something nobody likes. Now, they like the services that taxes pay for, but you have to have a--the burden...

MR. GREGORY: Right.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Everybody's going to have to, to sacrifice. Everybody's going to have to reach in their pocket if we're going to have a city and a country of the future.

MR. GREGORY: Right. Does he have to reconsider that promise not to raise taxes on the middle class?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Well, I think we'll see down the road. You know, in the end, the president has to deal with the reality, and some of the things are beyond his control. He's--makes commitments and he tries to live up to them, and I think the courage of being able to say, "Look, the world is different than I anticipated or what it was before, and I'm going to have to face that." It's fine. It does not mean that he's going to have to raise taxes on the middle class.

MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: But we certainly are spending an enormous amount of money that we don't have, and we've got to get our costs under control. We've got to be a lot smarter in defense purchases. We've got to be a lot smarter, as Cory pointed out, in providing medical services. One of the big problems with health care is that we spend a lot more than they do in Western Europe, but they have a longer life expectancy that we do.

MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: There's something wrong. And addressing that issue, are the people in there giving--doing the things that we want? Do we have the right hospitals in the right place? Are we relying on the right tests? Tory mentioned--Cory mentioned tort reform. And unless you do tort reform and immigration reform, you're not going to really fix the problem with health care.

MR. GREGORY: Let me talk to you both about a very important public safety issue, and that's the issue of guns.

Mayor Bloomberg, you have spearheaded an effort called Mayors Against Illegal Guns. You've spent $2.9 million of your own money in that effort. You recently were successful in defeating the NRA. There was a, an amendment in the Senate that would have allowed individuals to carry concealed weapons across state lines. You defeated the NRA, that, that measure failed in the Senate. But even in defeat, the NRA claimed some silver lining. This is how the Las Vegas Sun reported it last Sunday: "[Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid] voted in support [of, this was Senator Thune's Concealed Weapons Amendment], as did 20 of his Democratic colleagues--a sign of the gun lobby's power and the lengths the party has come in supporting the Second Amendment right. Even in defeat, the NRA was pleased. This was the first time the legislation had been brought to a vote in the Senate and it won vast bipartisan support from 58 senators." How can you muster the clout and the power to take on the NRA?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: We have 450 mayors representing 50 or 60 million people. It's the mayors--Cory, myself, John Peyton in Jacksonville, Tom Menino in Boston--mayors who have to go to explain at the hospital, to the loved ones that their sons, daughters, spouses, parents aren't coming home. We see the damage of illegal guns, and I think that we can pull together. You know, the NRA doesn't spend that much money. If you look at what the real numbers are, I think that we can pull together here and raise enough money--and incidentally, in the past I gave some, I did my share, but there are plenty of other people that did as well--we can raise enough money to take on this issue and explain to Congress this is just an outrage. there's a federal law that says criminals can't have guns, and we should enforce that law and get guns off the streets.

MAYOR BOOKER: Mm-hmm.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Nothing wrong with the Second Amendment. Nothing wrong with hunting.

MR. GREGORY: Will you personally put more money in?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Oh, I, I'm going to not only do that myself, I'm going to ask plenty of other people to do it. If you want to beat the NRA, you have to go out and get your message out. And it costs money to do that. And that's all we're trying to do. And I don't think this was a, a victory for me in the NR--in the Thune Amendment defeat, this was a victory of America. This was a victory for all of our police officers across the country who would have been more at risk with their lives if the least--the lowest standards were applied to everybody, which is what the Thune Amendment was about.

MAYOR BOOKER: But we've got to break out of this left-right debate, because this is not an issue of the NRA vs. the liberals. This is an issue that, I mean, both Mayor Bloomberg and I agree, that I'm not concerned about law-abiding citizens having access to guns. Not one shooting in my city last year was by somebody who went, had a background check, bought a gun and shot somebody in my city. Does not happen. What we're concerned with is these myriad of laws that, that create a flow of illegal weapons into our cities that most Americans--in fact, Mayor Bloomberg, again, his extraordinary leadership, polled gun owners, and 80 to 95 percent of gun owners agree that these laws should be changed. Example, how it is that you could be on a no-fly list as a, as a potential terrorist, but you can still go to a gun shop and buy a trunk full of--trunkload of weapons? How is it that you can--have to go to a retail shop and have a background check done on you to buy a gun, which we all accept as reasonable, but you have a loophole at gun shows? Which means, again, a terrorist or somebody with malevolent intentions can go in, again, get a trunk full of weapons. Most gun owners, the overwhelming majority agree that these loopholes should be closed.

MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm. All right...

MAYOR BOOKER: So this is an American issue, it's a left-right issue and another coalition that Mayor Bloomberg has pulled together across party aisles.

MR. GREGORY: Mayor Bloomberg, are you disappointed with President Obama for not leading the charge against assault--this ban on assault weapons?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: No, but I'm certainly going to urge him to do so. I talked to Arne Duncan, for example, the other day. He's the education secretary. And Arne said to me one of his signature issues is guns. He said when he was in Chicago he watched 12 years--12-year-olds get shot by some crazy guy with an illegal gun, and it's just got to stop. And I couldn't agree more. So I'll certainly urge everybody. This isn't a battle where you want to assign blame. And as Cory pointed out, it's north, south, east, west, big city, small city, Republican, Independent, Democratic.

MAYOR BOOKER: Mm-hmm.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Same people say there should be reasonable controls. The Supreme Court has said reasonable controls are constitutional. We--not trying to get rid of guns, we're simply trying to get guns out of the hands of criminals where the federal law says they don't have a right to buy them.

MR. GREGORY: Let me ask you, you talk about education. Swine flu this fall, what impact is it going to have in both of your cities, especially this question of whether schools should be closed as a result?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: We dealt with the swine flu this past spring. We made the decision repeatedly whether to keep a school open or closed, depending on the percentage of kids that reported to the nurse with a fever and cough. The experts basically say if the child appears sick or you appear sick, stay home until the symptoms go away. But closing the schools isn't the right answer in most cases for a variety of reasons. One, the kids probably aren't going to stay home, they're going to go to the park where they're just a likely to catch it. Two, remember, a lot of parents have to work, and missing a day of work to take care of the kid; or worse, leaving the child home unsupervised, puts the child in danger or hurts the family. And number three, there's just no evidence that it really stops the flu. A lot of this is by the time you find out, people are already infected. The good news is this has been a relatively mild version. The bad news is we don't know what's going to happen before. But even the president recommends that we keep the schools open. And the Center for Disease Control, now run by my former commissioner of the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, has said basically evaluate it every time. But closing the schools as a blanket thing is not the right solution.

MR. GREGORY: But, but, but...

MAYOR BOOKER: Let me just add...

MR. GREGORY: Yeah, go head.

MAYOR BOOKER: ...to that again, because again, we have to do the basic blocking attack that's going to protect our children, especially, from this challenge. But I don't want to lose something that Mayor Bloomberg has been a national leader on. We can't allow the challenges of today distract us from the opportunities of tomorrow. The real health crisis going on in our schools right now--and again, we need to give full attention to swine flu. But the real health challenges in our schools today is the overwhelming obesity problem amongst our kids, type 2 diabetes appearing and childhood diabetes. And these are the kind of things that we have to have a comprehensive health initiative, education initiative so not only parents know what to do if their kids have the sniffles, but I also want parents to know what to do to prepare their kids to be nutritionally fit to learn. And we as Americans have a comeuppance, because the long-term health problems that are facing our kids today that we could address are going to have an effect on our GDP in the, the level of billions.

MR. GREGORY: Before you both go, I want to talk politics.

Mayor Bloomberg, you're up for re-election for a, for a third term, and here's the headline recently about the poll. Polls suggest the mayor may be losing some ground. You were up in June by 22 percent--22 points, rather, over William Thompson, your, your rival. Now that's narrowed to 10 points. Why do you see the race tightening?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Well, number one, the polls don't matter other than the one that's taken on November 3rd, Election Day.

MR. GREGORY: I've heard that before.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Right. Number two, I think of--some of these things are how you ask the question. But number three, I can't worry about that. I got elected twice because people wanted me to listen to them and then do what I think is right and stand up to the--even if it's not good politically, but just focus on not giving away the store, making sure the government is efficient and delivers the kinds of services people want for the least cost. And I'm going to continue to do that. That will resonate with some people, and others say, "No, no, no. I want to have a political environment where I can get my friend appointed, or I don't want to change something because it's worked and I'm comfortable with it." And I happen to think there are new things you can do all the time, and if you don't you won't have a future. And I'm just going to do what I think is right.

MR. GREGORY: As you know, Mayor Booker's very politically astute, and on Twitter he recently offered some sage advice. This is what he wrote: "My advice for Bloomberg re-election: Fenty"--talking about the mayor of Washington D.C.--"and I both have liberated scalps. If Mike shaves his head, young, hip vote is his, victory assured." So, Mayor, you can make news here. Will you shave your head for re-election?

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: Let me equivocate on that and, and duck the issue. But I think--my hair is falling out at sufficient rate that I won't have to shave it. It's going to be gone.

MAYOR BOOKER: It's for a pre-emptive strike. It's time for a pre-emptive strike.

MAYOR BLOOMBERG: I know you're going to say that.

MAYOR BOOKER: Let me, let me just tell you something. I've--I have endorsed Mayor Bloomberg. He's a Republican. We cast our country too simplistically in left-right debates. He's been a leader in bringing America together around gun issues that are sensible for all Americans. He's brought people together around lowering carbon footprints in cities, the left-right coalition. This is the way we need to move forward. We have issues in this country that unite people. I have the right-leaning Manhattan Institute working with me ex-offender re-entry programs because it's a huge drag on our economy to spend billions of dollars warehousing people and miss the opportunities if we can help them to get into work where they'll produce tax receipts and benefits for society as a whole. I'm proud to sit here with a Republican, because that's the only way our city's going to--our nation's going to move forward is left and right working together.

MR. GREGORY: Your name has been mentioned, actually, with the potential to get into the race for, for governor of New Jersey. Governor Corzine has sort of doubled down on that financially. He's staying in the race. He's vulnerable, as you well know. What will this race for governor of New Jersey say about actually the president's performance?

MAYOR BOOKER: Well, I think the--this is two separate issues. Governor Jon Corzine has been a governor that has been extraordinarily successful. Murder in our state has gone down 24 percent. He's had to cut the state budget $4 billion, but yet he's increasing investments in education in over a billion dollars. The problem with Jon Corzine right now is most of the state of New Jersey does not realize the tough cards he was dealt and the great decisions he's made under difficult, difficult circumstances.

And as far as Obama, look, we have two races nationally right now, Virginia and New Jersey. Many people want to use them as a litmus test against the incumbent president. But understand this. We're in a down economy, we're facing incredible challenges; every incumbent in America is going to face very difficult times in their re-election. This has nothing to do with the president. We are in a national crisis; hopefully we'll be coming together to be dealing with this.

MR. GREGORY: All right.

MAYOR BOOKER: And it shouldn't be about, you know, watching the stock market, the daily uptick or downtick of polls. It should be about solving problems.

MR. GREGORY: We're going to leave it there. Mayors, Mayors Booker and Bloomberg, we got to run. Thank you both for being here today.