MA6TTHEWS: But first, U.S. Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas, who was shouted down at his own town hall meeting in Austin, Texas. Austin is apparently, from what I've always been told, the most sophisticated political town in Texas, sir. Why the zaniness over the weekend at your town hall meeting? Let's, by the way, look at the pictures while you speak of what was going on there.

REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D), TEXAS: Well, Chris, what better slogan for the party of no, no way, never, than "Just say no"? One of the reasons is because many of these people were summoned in by the local Republican and Libertarian parties. They didn't even live in the neighborhood. They were there not just to be heard but to ensure other people weren't heard on this. A real desperation tactic.

MATTHEWS: What are they up to? Why do they want to shut down any talk of reform in health care?

DOGGETT: I think these folks are really desperate to stop health reform. They see that for the first time in 60 years, we really have, with President Obama and a Democratic Congress, a chance to enact meaningful reform and deal with these policies of health insurance giants that hurt small business, that deny choice to so many people, and deny them coverage at a time they need it the most.

So "Just say no," a mob scene, is just one way of trying to intimidate members into weakening their position. In my case, it really just reaffirmed my resolve to go back and get a strong public plan, force more competition, provide more choice to people, get the reform I know my constituents want.

MATTHEWS: Well, let's go through some of their attacks. One of them lately is this cultural front, where they're saying that the new reform bill coming out of Energy and Commerce in the House would be a requirement that health practitioners come to older people and tell them, Well, you better make plans now for living wills, et cetera, you're going to die some day and you're going to be in bad health, so you better make some decisions now. Is that the case? Is that in the bill?

DOGGETT: Yes, that was one of the cries of this Republican mob Saturday that also was nice enough to have a beautiful marble picture-a beautiful picture of a marble tombstone with my name on it. But they did express this concern about euthanasia. That's a real slur about this bill.

I worked with my colleagues on that section of the bill. All that it does is to provide that a physician under Medicare can be paid for talking with a senior who wants to talk with the physician. If they want to express the desire to be tied to a machine indefinitely, or as in my case, they want to sign a living will to provide some instructions instead of letting someone else decide for them, they have that right.

This has nothing to do with euthanasia, which is outlawed in this country, and we do not deal with euthanasia whatsoever in this bill.

MATTHEWS: Well, Mr. Doggett, as one of the people writing the bill, just to clear it up as you just did, make it clear-no one will be approached to have to make end-of-life decisions. That would be entirely up to the patient, the citizen, to bring up the topic, right?

DOGGETT: It's up to the patient to take it up with their doctor, if they so choose to, and euthanasia is not one of the options.

MATTHEWS: OK. OK, let me ask you about your state. You've got a half a dozen members of Congress, all Republicans, out there talking up this "birther" thing. There is absolutely no evidence the president was born anywhere but the United States. We've got a birth certificate. We've got an announcement of his birth at the time, all kinds of contemporary information, including the testimony of his mother, his grandparents, everybody who knew him, the governor of the state, who's a Republican, all the department heads, all the information anybody could want that he was born in America. They knew it at the time. We know it now. What is it in the water down in Texas that leads your Republican colleagues to join the "birther" movement?

DOGGETT: Well, Chris, I'm not sure it's the water. I think it's just a certain fanaticism that they cannot accept the fact that Barack Obama is our president, that he's working for change. It's the same fanaticism I saw on Saturday of people talking about a government takeover in health care, when all the independent studies have shown that 96 percent of the people that would turn to an insurance exchange would go into a private plan with new standards and 4 percent would choose something like Medicare.

MATTHEWS: Wow. And you also have a governor that was talking up secession lately. What's that about? I thought you guys joined the union back in the 19th century and were quite happy here.

DOGGETT: Yes, Chris, that's like this crowd on Saturday, too, holding up the 10th Amendment and saying that the 10th Amendment prevents our getting health care bill through. And when I asked them about that-because all your video shows is the end of the meeting, not the hour that I spent with them responding to their taunts and questions-they admitted that they're not only against health care reform, but they'd like to see the repeal of Medicare and Social Security. This is about whether our country goes backwards or provides the coverage people so much want.

MATTHEWS: Go forward with Austin, sir. Thank you. U.S. Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas. Thank you.

DOGGETT: Thanks, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Well, let's watch this video from yesterday in Philadelphia, just to show you this thing is going all around the country, where another rowdy crowd shouted down U.S. Senator Arlen Specter and also health secretary Kathleen Sebelius. They got shouted down, too. Watch this (INAUDIBLE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: I have never seen members of Congress work harder on it. It is unacceptable to me for somebody that...

(BOOS)

SEBELIUS: Hours and hours and hours and hours have been spent. If people say that they haven't read the legislation, then tell them to go back and read it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do!

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D), PENNSYLVANIA: My practice, when you have a bill, and we have a lot of them that are a thousand pages, is to take my top staff, and we divide up the bill. We have to make judgments very fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, who's behind this? Joining us right now is U.S. Republican Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee. Senator, who's behind these raging crowds of anti-health reform folks?

SEN. BOB CORKER ®, TENNESSEE: I have no idea, Chris. I'm going to have town hall meetings throughout the state of Tennessee this next month, and I'm sure we'll have large crowds. And my guess is there may be some folks on the other side of the issue there, but I have no idea.

MATTHEWS: What do you make of this debate over end of life, this argument from some on the right that the Obama health care plan is going to confront old people with decisions about, Well, you're costing the government a lot of money and your relatives a lot of money, maybe we should pull the plug? This is out there. Is it fair, that shot at this bill?

CORKER: Well, you know, first of all, I'm focused on the Senate bill, and right now the Finance Committee is really the place where the action is in the Senate, OK? But I think certainly calling for Medpac (ph), a body that's outside the-you know, the Congress, to be able to make decisions probably does give concern to people about rationing.

I think most of us know-you know this, and I think most of us that have been involved in this issue-that most of the dollars that we spend in our lifetime on health care is at the end. And so I think when people start hearing about folks that are not elected being able to make decisions about those kinds of things, it probably gives them concern.

And certainly hearing that-and you're hearing that, I'm certainly hearing that myself-anything that gets done-and by the way, I want to see us have appropriate health care reform. I really do. And I think there's so much that we could agree upon and actually do this in a way that actually doesn't create all of this concern, in some cases rightful concern by citizens, and I hope that when we get back in September, after people on both sides of the aisle have attended many, many town halls, we'll be able to do that.

MATTHEWS: You know, when one party is out of power and you're in the minority, as your party is now, sir, there's often the call, Well, we have an alternative to what the majority party wants. And I always like to think, and this goes for both parties, Why didn't you push your alternatives when you were in power? If you had a big health care reform plan, why didn't you push it when you had George Bush and the House and the Senate? You had the whole shebang. Why didn't you do it then?

CORKER: Well, you know, I've been here two-and-a-half years and actually did write a bill that is very much centered on the kind of things I espouse today, and that is, look, I think we should limit the exclusion, the employer exclusion, so that Cadillac health care plans are taxed. I think you read the other day where-I'm not picking on them, but it's the case Goldman Sachs, their executives get a $40,000, $41,000-a-year plan. Tax those above $17,000 and use those monies-use the money generated to actually allow people that cannot afford health care today to be able to buy it.

And that's something that I think, Chris, we could get a large bipartisan support for. It would actually go way down the road to solving this problem.

MATTHEWS: Yes. I think you're right. Isn't that what people like Ron Wyden want to do, and his Republican colleague?

CORKER: Yes, it is. And Chris, I met with the president two weeks ago. And I appreciate it. I have been to meetings that-you can't imagine the number of meetings I've been to on health care. I do not understand why the president will not sit down with leadership and focus on this very sensible solution.

The other piece, Chris, is taking $400 billion out of Medicare, which is, we all know, insolvent. The trustees have told us it's going to be insolvent in 2017 -- taking money away from Medicare, not doing the doc (ph) fix-you see us each year squiring, figuring out ways to pay providers so they won't be cut by 21 percent-not even dealing with that, but using that money to leverage an entire new program-to me, it's just not sensible.

And to me, there are extremes that are being discussed on both sides. I think we could come together and do something in September that makes a lot of sense and does not create budget deficits. I really do.

MATTHEWS: Are you one of those that wants to see a health care bill passed this year?

CORKER: I do. I campaigned on it. I was the commissioner of finance in a state that had lots of people without health care, and I have wanted to see that happen. There's a way to do it that's market-based. This government plan and the issue of using Medicare dollars to me are two non-starters. The fact is, if you look at Medicare Part D, I mean, there are probably 40 pharmaceutical companies or plans vying for seniors' help (ph) in this-in health care. I don't know why we don't use those kinds of models to solve this plan, and that's what Wyden and Bennett does. I have some problems with that bill, but if it can be corrected, it's the kind of thing I think a lot of us could get behind.

MATTHEWS: Senator, you said you're going to have a town meeting. If the issue of this "birthing" thing comes up-because it's been coming up at all these meetings-what will you say, if somebody stands up, like they did to mike Castle, a moderate Republican over in Delaware-he got hit with it. What would you do if you got hit with somebody saying, I don't believe the president was born in this country?

CORKER: First of all, I'm going to have lots of town hall meetings, and from what I've seen over the last week and in times past, Chris, it appears to me that our president is a citizen. Sometimes citizens groups enlighten us, and certainly, people have the freedom in this country to try to do that, but from my standpoint, it's a settled issue.

MATTHEWS: So do you think it's legitimate to raise questions about whether he's a native-born American or not? Is that a legitimate point?

CORKER: Well, look, you know, that's-here-you know, in this country, that is what's great about it, people have the ability to raise anything they wish. They have the ability to go to court and try to pursue it. I think that's great.

From my standpoint, again, it's settled. I mean, it looks to me like he's a citizen. There's newspaper documents or writings about congratulating him when he was birthed. But the fact is that sometimes people educate us, and certainly, if that's what people wish to do, let them do it. I'm sure that I will see them. We've received lots of letters in our office from "birthers." They're heart-felt. I happen to feel differently about the issue, but I'm glad we live in a country where people can raise issues that concern them like that.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you very much, Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee.

CORKER: Yes, sir.