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July 15, 2008

Interviews with Sen. Graham & Gov. Richardson

Hannity & Colmes

HANNITY: And welcome to HANNITY & COLMES. We'll get right to our "Top Story" tonight.

Senator Barack Obama gave what was billed as a, quote, "major foreign policy address" today on the issue of Iraq.

Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: For weeks now Senator McCain has argued that the gains of the surge mean that I should change my commitment to end the war. But this argument misconstrues what is necessary to succeed in Iraq and stubbornly ignores the facts of the broader strategic picture that we face.

In the 18 months since the surge began, the strain on our military has increased, our troops and their families have borne an enormous burden, and American taxpayers have spent another $200 billion in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: But Obama is shifting positions on troop withdrawal and the success of the surge are earning him the feared label of flip-flopper.

Now take a look at what his critics are talking all about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Now I had no doubt and I said at the time when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform if we place 30,000 more troops in there then we would see an improvement in the security situation in which we would see a reduction in the violence.

We can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops. I don't know any expert on the region or any military officer that I've spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.

I've always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed, and when I go to Iraq and I have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I'm sure I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policy.

I intend to end this war. I have seen no information that contradicts the notion that we can bring our troops out safely at a pace of one to two brigades per month, and, again, that pace translates into having our combat troops out in 16 months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Now to further prove this point, the "Associated Press" is reporting tonight that Obama aides have removed references to Obama opposing the surge in Iraq from the candidate's own Web site.

According to the campaign, well, it is to reflect changing conditions on the ground. Translation? Because he was wrong?

We get reaction from an Obama supporter in a couple of minutes, but we start tonight with South Carolina Republican senator and McCain supporter, Lindsey Graham.

Are you laughing at the tape or laughing because I introduced you?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), MCCAIN SUPPORTER: No, I just -- really you all do a very good job.

HANNITY: Well.

GRAHAM: It was a compelling case you just made.

HANNITY: Well, let's talk about that because he's changed on FISA, he's changed on public financing, he's changed on meeting with Ahmadinejad, on Iraq. I mean we go down on the list. Forget the flip-flop label.

GRAHAM: Right.

HANNITY: Where is this man's political beliefs? Where is his core values that guide him considering that the job of a president is to make hard decisions?

GRAHAM: Well, what I hope people will look at is his judgment. You know, in 2006 when he went to Iraq over 900 days ago, clearly we were losing, and his solution, Sean, was to withdraw troops.

John McCain's solution was to add more troops, and since the surge has began until now we've had stunning success.

Barack Obama in January of 2007 said that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq would not provide security, it would make things worse. He's been wrong about the surge. Now he's declaring before he goes to Iraq unilaterally to withdraw troops within 16 months, he's never sat down with General Petraeus and said is that a good idea?

He's never sat down with the Maliki government and talked with them about what they think, so he's all over the board. He was wrong about the surge and he's wrong about the future.

HANNITY: And he once talked about air-raiding villages and hurting civilians in Afghanistan and these sorts of things.

GRAHAM: Yes.

HANNITY: But more importantly I'm looking at a candidate, Senator, 46 years old, community organizer. I don't see that he has the experience nor does he have the -- it seems like everybody around him, they tell him to wear a flag pin, now he wears a flag pin.

GRAHAM: Right.

HANNITY: You know his wife has got a new speech writer, a new chief of staff, they're creating a new image for both of them.

Do we know who the real Barack Obama is?

GRAHAM: Well, we know he's ill-prepared to be commander in chief, and let me tell you, the best evidence of that statement that I just made is that he said today that Iraq is not a central battle in the greater war on terror, and it never has been.

Well, General Petraeus has a different view, Lee Hamilton has a different view, Admiral Mullen has a different view, Osama bin Laden has a different view.

If you can't understand that losing in Iraq would hurt us in the overall global war on terror, then you're not ready for the job.

HANNITY: All right. But let me ask you this. He said he was going to go to Iraq, and remember, this was tied to the issue of he'd meet with Ahmadinejad without preconditions.

GRAHAM: Right. Right.

HANNITY: .Iran is a tiny country, they don't pose a serious threat were his words.

GRAHAM: Right. Right.

HANNITY: But he is willing to meet with him, but he -- as you point out, he has not met with General Petraeus. He's not been to Iraq in over 900 days. He said he would refine his position.

GRAHAM: Right.

HANNITY: And then he pulled back from that, and he's back -- sort of back to the 16-month plan, although, you know, all the stuff that's taken off the Web site, I don't really know where he stands on this today.

GRAHAM: Well, he ran into a left headwind. He's trying to get to the middle. He's trying to look reasonable.

To go to Iraq now and say that the surge hasn't worked is just defying reality, and to say this is not part of a global struggle would be news to the troops who are fighting this war.

Clearly al Qaeda understands what happens if Iraq is a success story. Bin Laden's worst nightmare is a country in the heart of the Arab world where Sunni, Shia and Kurds live together and a woman can have a say about her children.

Iran's biggest nightmare, Sean, is a representative government on their border. So if we'd lost in Iraq al Qaeda and Iran would be the biggest winner. The dividend of winning is going to al Qaeda diminished by Muslims in Iraq taking up arms against bin Laden.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Senator, welcome back to our show.

Last.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

COLMES: Senator, the "Christian Science Monitor" last week reported that John McCain has resisted calls for more troops in Afghanistan. Now today John McCain is following Barack Obama's lead and calling -- saying he's going to send two or three brigades to Afghanistan.

First, he said it would come from Iraq. Then he said it would be NATO. So I'm confused. Why is John McCain changed what he's going to do in Afghanistan now following Barack Obama's lead?

GRAHAM: I don't think that Senator McCain has followed Barack Obama's. Thank God the country didn't follow Barack Obama's lead when it came to Iraq. If we'd have listened to Obama and withdrawn our troops, Iraq would be chaos, a failed state.

When it comes to Afghanistan, I think we do need to add more combat power, but Afghanistan is very much like Iraq, it is broken, and John McCain knows how to fix it broken wars.

COLMES: But John McCain said he wouldn't add more combat troops until today. He flip-flopped.

GRAHAM: I don't.

COLMES: .like he did last week. And now he's doing what Obama has said all along he would do.

GRAHAM: I disagree with you, my friend. I've never heard John McCain rule out adding more troops into Afghanistan. He will listen to the commanders, and if the commanders say we need more troops, we'll provide them. But John understands war, and he understands you don't end wars, Alan.

You win them or you lose them. And Barack Obama doesn't understand the consequences of losing in Iraq, he never has, he's tried to build a career around us losing in Iraq.

COLMES: Senator, we would have to disagree about that.

GRAHAM: OK.

COLMES: By the way, McCain did say last week he would not send more troops to Afghanistan.

GRAHAM: OK.

COLLINS: The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mike Mullen, said our commitment in Iraq is hindering our ability to meet our threats of national security in places like Afghanistan.

Does the chairman of the Joint Chiefs know what he's talking about?

GRAHAM: Yes, he does, and he said we had to win in Iraq, and we are winning in Iraq, and we had two fronts in World War II. Losing in Iraq doesn't help us in Afghanistan. Winning in Iraq helps us across the region and across the world against (INAUDIBLE) of terrorism.

COLMES: He said it's hurting our ability to fight in Afghanistan.

GRAHAM: Winning in Iraq helps us every where. Muslims turned on al Qaeda that's a good.

COLMES: I'm telling you what Mike Mullen said.

GRAHAM: That's what happened in Iraq.

COLMES: All right, Senator.

GRAHAM: Muslims defeated al Qaeda in Iraq. That's good news for us.

COLMES: Thank you for being with us. Good to see you.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

COLMES: Coming up, more on Obama and what some critics like Sean are calling a flip-flop on his Iraq war stance.

New Mexico governor Bill Richardson will be here, and still to come, a new report suggesting some Capitol Hill Democrats are less than happy with their main guy, Barack Obama.

What does this say about party unity for Democrats? And, of course, Republicans and McCain, we'll take a look.

Plus it's an interview you will see only tonight here on HANNITY & COLMES. Madonna's brother opening up about life with the "Material Girl," revealing details of his new tell-all book right here coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: Now for more on Barack Obama, what his critics are calling flip-flops on the Iraq war, we're joined by Obama supporter, New Mexico governor, Bill Richardson.

Governor, welcome back, good to see you.

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D-NM), OBAMA SUPPORTER: Thank you. Nice to be with you again.

COLMES: How's the vetting process coming along?

RICHARDSON: I'm not going to talk about that. You know I see myself on some list, on other lists. I'm just -- I'm in Las Cruses, New Mexico loving being governor.

COLMES: OK.

RICHARDSON: I don't need all of you guys all the time. Don't worry.

COLMES: We need you, though, so we'd led you here.

Look, you know, I love the way that the right loves to go after Barack Obama for flip-flopping and question his judgment.

Here's John McCain in 2002 who said, I believe that we can win an overwhelming victory in a very short time. In 2003 he echoed Bush's rosy prediction, saying the end was very much in sight in Iraq. In 2005, again, backing Bush saying another year would prove stay the course is working.

So where's his judgment on this thing?

RICHARDSON: Well, Senator McCain, despite his great war record and his national security experience, has been wrong on the major issues. He's been wrong on the war in Iraq, he's been wrong by not -- just today calling for more troops in Afghanistan, two more combat brigades which.

COLMES: Right.

RICHARDSON: . Obama has done, and, you know, I think what happened today is Obama gave a speech that a future president concerned with national security would do, focus on the Taliban and al Qaeda, focus on terrorism, do something about nuclear proliferation and loose nuclear weapons, deal with North Koreas, the Pakistans, that are responsible for this problem, end the war honorably.

You know this is a national security speech that every American could be proud of what should be our goals.

Senator McCain -- you know, despite a lot of experience and a great war record.

COLMES: Yes.

RICHARDSON: . has been wrong on the major foreign policy issues.

COLMES: He also talked about walking through Baghdad, how safe it was to walk through an open market, when there were apache helicopters ahead of him and all kinds of security and there was violence there shortly thereafter.

So, again, I mean, I don't question his great resume and war record, but on this particular issue, the war in Iraq, it seems like Obama was right all along and John McCain hasn't been.

RICHARDSON: Well -- and Obama can do something that no other American politician can do. And that is bring the American people together, deal with a Congress in a bipartisan way to end this war, but bring our troops back as safely and securely as possible. Focus on diplomacy in the region, deal with the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

Be tough on terrorists. Recognize that -- look at what Obama is saying. We need more men and women in the army and the Marines. We need to focus more on the Taliban, on al Qaeda and Pakistan, two more combat brigades, work closer with NATO.

HANNITY: Hey, Governor.

RICHARDSON: Yes, Sean. I'm sure you don't agree with me.

HANNITY: No, not a word.

RICHARDSON: Go ahead.

HANNITY: But that's, you know, par for the course.

Anyway, good to see you, Governor. Thank you for being with us. Appreciate it.

I want to ask you about this, because he had up on his Web site the surge is not working. He said the surge wouldn't work, and then he came out and said now, I've said all along that if we added all those troops it would work, in fact, but the reality is McCain was right on the surge, and Barack Obama was wrong.

Why not just admit that he was wrong?

RICHARDSON: Well, because he wasn't wrong.

HANNITY: He was wrong on the surge.

RICHARDSON: You know you can certainly have to -- you have to update the Web site. What Obama said is this -- is the surge working in bringing political reconciliation in Iraq, increasing the Iraqis taking over their security? The answer is no.

Has the surge, in some cases, reduced some violence? Yes. But the reality is that the surge is an instrument of a policy that isn't working, a policy of staying there forever, a policy of not using diplomacy.

HANNITY: Governor, with all due respect, and by every objective discerning measure, every analyst I know says it's working, he says he's willing to refine his position when he goes there, but then he has to pull back again and sort of, you know, appease his extreme left-wing support, and then pull back from refining his position to quote his words.

RICHARDSON: Well, you know, Sean, everybody has said the president of the United States -- he said the objective of the surge is also to bring political reconciliation.

HANNITY: That's happening.

RICHARDSON: That hasn't happened between the three groups.

HANNITY: Well, it's happening now.

RICHARDSON: It hasn't brought any kind of sharing of oil revenues. It hasn't brought a diplomatic effort in the region that is going to reduce the violence in the entire country.

HANNITY: I'll give you the last word.

RICHARDSON: It hasn't advanced our objectives.

HANNITY: All right, Governor. Good to see you.

RICHARDSON: Well, it's always good to be on your show.

HANNITY: Will you admit you're being vetted?

RICHARDSON: I'm not admitting anything.

HANNITY: Come on. Did they ask for tax returns?

RICHARDSON: I'm happy being governor. No, no.

COLMES: Leave the governor alone.

HANNITY: They asked for something, right?

COLMES: Leave the man alone.

HANNITY: All right, Governor, thanks. Good to see you.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

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