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March 10, 2008

Karl Rove on "Hannity & Colmes"

Hannity & Colmes

HANNITY: Barack Obama is hoping that his victory in Wyoming over the weekend will translate into wining more delegates in tomorrow's Mississippi primary. But the fierce fight for the nomination still looks far from over. Joining us now with more, Fox News contributor -- we call him the Architect; Karl Rove is back.

Sir, this is the first time in the history of the world you have brought Sean Hannity and the "New York Times" together. Did you read the report by David Carr, analyzing the coverage on Super Tuesday II. And he goes on to say, and is it just me; Karl Rove, one of the best things on television right now, graceful, careful, generous. He leaves the viewer better informed and wondering what has he done with the real Karl Rove? You know they had to take a little shot.

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: What am I doing wrong to get applause from the "New York Times?" I mean, please. Think of the damage it's going to do to my reputation.

HANNITY: I think you're doing good TV, is what you're doing.

ROVE: Thanks.

HANNITY: Before we move on to anything else here, I wanted to get your take on the situation with Governor Spitzer. What do you think is going to happen and should happen?

ROVE: Well, it's very sad. I think Jeanine was right. It strikes me that these are very dangerous things that he's dealing with. I read part of the -- went online and read part of the documents today, and it strikes me that he's probably doing exactly what she said, keeping the governorship as a negotiating tool with the prosecutors. Very sad, very, very sad.

HANNITY: If we go back to 2006, and the issue of Congressman Foley, look at all the press coverage as it related to David Vitter and Larry Craig. Do you think when it comes to these moral issues that there a double standard, Karl?

ROVE: You know, I think a little bit, but that's not what this is about tonight. Tonight is a -- they caught him in a federal -- a criminal investigation of a prostitution ring with potentially very dangerous ramifications. He had no alternative but to come out and say that he was going to be caught up in this. I, frankly, thought it was a little disingenuous when he said this was a private matter.

You know, hiring a prostitute and getting her to go from New York to Washington to meet you in room 871 at the Mayflower Hotel is not a private matter if you're the governor of the state of New York.

HANNITY: It certainly raises the issue -- I brought this up during the David Vitter case -- of being compromised and potentially black-mailed. I want to ask you -- one of the amazing things, if we look at Barack Obama's 12 delegate wins in Wyoming over the weekend, what didn't get a lot of coverage was, with all the talk about Ohio and Rhode Island and Vermont and Texas, that Barack Obama actually won as many if not more, if we get the final tally, delegates than Hillary Clinton had won on the Super Tuesday II.

What do you make of the math where we stand now?

ROVE: Well, funny you should mention that. I've been scribbling all afternoon. There are -- today there are 1,579 for Obama, 1,476 for Clinton, according to the A.P. That's a 103-vote margin. There are 598 delegates from here forward who are going to be elected, 33 tomorrow night in Mississippi.

By my calculation, there are 336 super delegates who have yet to pledge, and there are 11 delegates still unapportioned from Ohio and Texas, nine in Texas and two in Ohio. They're still trying to figure out five days later who won them. Going in to tomorrow night, she needs to take just over 58 percent of the remaining delegates in order to win. Now, I --

COLMES: Go ahead.

ROVE: I'm looking at the polls, too, for tomorrow night, and there have been three polls in Mississippi, not a lot of polling being done there, but they would suggest -- the three polls would indicate that assuming the undecideds here in the last several days are breaking even, they would suggest that Obama would win with between 58 and 63 percent of the vote, which given the 33 delegates, means that he would pick up between five and nine additional delegates on the 103 that he now leads her by.

COLMES: Karl, I want to get just a second. I want to ask you, for a moment here, about Eliot Spitzer. Sean mentioned a double standard. This is a tragic thing to happen. Larry Craig kept his seat, and so did David Vitter. And David Vitter got applause in a private Republican luncheon after his stuff came out. Is there a double standard under those circumstances?

ROVE: Well, look, again, I want to be very careful about this. I think the double standard here is that we had a man who made his reputation as a prosecutor, particularly made his reputation in some high profile prosecution of prostitution rings. He's the governor of the state of New York, and he has apparently not a simple, but on-going relationship as governor with a prostitution ring. This is a problem.

And it puts him in a very dangerous position, susceptible to all kinds of pressure, and violating state and federal laws, if the complaint is to be believed and if he is truly client number nine.

COLMES: We're going to pick it up right there with Karl Rove. More analysis as we talk about the upcoming primaries when we get back in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: We now continue more with Karl Rove. When a federal official or a local official on any level breaks the law, shouldn't that person resign, whether it's David Vitter who goes and sees a prostitute, or whether it's the governor of New York and breaks the law that way?

ROVE: Yes, look, I'm trying not to get into commenting on what people should or should not do. This is really -- Personally, Alan, I believe that Larry Craig should be out of the United States Senate. He broke the law and pleaded guilty. He shouldn't be in the United States Senate. He promised his colleagues he would leave, and he didn't. And that's wrong.

My point about Spitzer is that Spitzer made his reputation in part by prosecuting these prostitution rings. He condemned them in very strong language, and now it turns out that he's been tied up with one for apparently a significant period of time, and in a way that, as Jeanine mentioned, places him in particular vulnerability, which is he moved-- he went from New York to Washington, D.C. and had the prostitute cross state lines. And that's not just a state law, that's a federal law as well.

COLMES: Let's talk more now about the upcoming primaries.

ROVE: Let's do.

COLMES: You couldn't wait for that. The idea that we have -- some people who will say, you know, Barack Obama's got to win this because if Hillary does this, she'll have done it by cheating. That's the only way she can do it. Do you concur with that? Or is this anybody's to have? No one has won it yet.

ROVE: No one's won it yet. He's got a lead. I think it's a pretty substantial lead, given the nature of proportionality. Remember, the thing that allows him to stay ahead is also the thing that makes it difficult for her to pick up a lot on him, and that is the delegates are split on the basis of proportionality. There are no winner takes all contests that give you a chance to get a big bump up.

Neither one has won it. Both of them have to win it the same way. Both of them have to win a majority of the -- in her case a substantial majority, him a plurality of the delegates who are left up for grabs.

COLMES: Let's talk about the super delegates. I just want to understand the role of the super delegate, because, again, one of the arguments is they've got to do with the will of the majority of the voters. But if that were the case, why would you need super delegates in the first place, if it's just going to be based on the popular vote?

ROVE: You're absolutely right. If you go back and look at the legislative history of this, since the Democrats put together the rules, it is clear that there were several impulses coming into play in the creation of the super delegates. One was like what James Madison called the saucer, the Senate would cool the passions of the House. This was clearly a device to sort of cool the passions of the delegates who were elected in primaries and caucuses.

Part of it is also to ensure a voice for people who didn't want to busy themselves with running for delegate, whether they were interest group leaders, party activists, people who played a role in campaigns, like Harold Ickes or others, or elected officials. And part of it was to guarantee that elected officials would have a seat at the convention without having to face the voters in a primary.

And all of those things have ended up putting them in a place where some of them are going to feel obligated to exercise the -- to respect the will of the voters, and some of them are just going to exercise their own free will.

HANNITY: Karl, I'm going to be interviewing Governor Mitt Romney tomorrow and Senator McCain on Thursday. You talked about an M and M ticket. Are you still there?

ROVE: Yes. Look, I'm just reporting what I'm hearing from a lot of people out there, is that, as they go through there, there seems to be a growing enthusiasm out there for an M and M ticket, particularly on the part of conservatives.

HANNITY: How do you think Barack Obama is holding up under the Clinton assault? You had Hillary Clinton suggesting that they may team up. Bill Clinton made a similar suggestion. And Barack Obama responded today, saying don't assume I'll take the VP spot, and if I'm not ready to be president, why do you think I'd be such a great vice-president? I thought that was a pretty good line. Do you think he's handling it well?

ROVE: It was a good line, but from the wrong person. That line should have been delivered by a campaign surrogate. He made a mistake today in personally responding to what Hillary and Bill said. They look generous. They look sort of -- look, the young man can have an opportunity. It would be great for our party. And he should not have responded.

And when he did respond with a snappy line, he looked arrogant and harsh. That should have been -- the dismissive statement should have been issued by a press spokesman or an advocate or a surrogate that would have been a good contrast. He should not have gotten self-drawn in. He had a chance to have a message today, the day before the Mississippi primary, and the message that America saw was an angry and I think a little bit arrogant Barack Obama being so dismissive.

HANNITY: Great advice, the architect, Karl Rove, thanks for being with us.

ROVE: You bet. Thank you.

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