Election 2008 Obama vs. McCain | Clinton vs. McCain | Latest 2008 Polls | Latest 2008 News

February 14, 2008

Huckabee, Sharpton on "Hannity & Colmes"

Hannity & Colmes

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome to HANNITY AND COLMES. We're glad you are with us. I'm Sean Hannity. Right to our top story tonight; Governor Mitt Romney endorsed Senator John McCain today, calling the senator a hero. Former Governor Mike Huckabee is now the only man standing between Senator McCain and the Republican nomination. And Governor Huckabee joins us right now.

Governor, always good to see you. Thank you for being with us.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Sean. Great to be back.

HANNITY: You did have an announcement, news released today, talking about Romney's endorsement. He said, this goes to show there is a lot of me too, going on in the party. And I just happen to be the leader of the not-me crowd.

HUCKABEE: Sean, I have always been the guy that looked for the shortest line. You know, if you are going to the bank or you're going to the grocery store, look for the short line. And, you know, there is a short line that I have decided to follow. But it's a line that is based on my deeply held convictions that we are a pro-life party, that we stand for the Human Life Amendment, that we don't support human embryonic stem cell research, that we really do believe that lower taxes are better than higher taxes.

We need a strong national defense. I think I am speaking for a lot of small business owners, who know that the only way we can get small business where they can compete is implementing something like the fair tax. I'm speaking for those folks. They haven't asked me to quit yet.

HANNITY: First of all, governor, I agree with you on the fair tax. Neal Bohrtz (ph) has just written a great follow-up book on that. Let me specifically ask you this, because even as of now, when Governor Romney got out of race, he still has more delegates to you, freeing them up to Senator McCain in this race. It gets down to the question of can you mathematically win?

You are at 242. Governor Romney was close to 300. There you have Senator McCain close to that magic number. What is it, 1191? Mathematically, you would have to win about 90 percent of the delegates that are left. Do you think you could do that?

HUCKABEE: Well, I'm not sure. But I know one thing, if I quit I know I can't. But the other thing is that maybe none of us get to 1191 and it goes to the convention. That's always one path. It's a path that used to be the way that a person got the nomination until we started trying to cook it in advance. But there are a lot of people in states like Texas and where I am right now in Wisconsin. I'm in Green Bay -- and in Ohio and Pennsylvania, they haven't even voted yet.

Why should we tell them, don't even bother going to vote. We are not interested in what you say. I think these folks have a right to have a voice and a choice. That's why I feel like it's important to stay in the election.

HANNITY: Governor, I'm not going to tell what you to do. I think you have got to do what's in your best interest. You have supporters that you have to answer to. Does there come a point where it becomes mathematically impossible and that raises the question, what then is your goal? Is your goal to take this all the way to the convention? Are you in to the end or in to the day that he gets 1191? If you don't win Texas and Ohio and Wisconsin, some of these other states, will you get out, or are you in until he gets 1191?

HUCKABEE: I have said that if he gets 1191, then he is the designee - - the nominee.

HANNITY: Will you pledge not to get out before then?

HUCKABEE: Yes, I have already done that. I have done it about 100,000 times. I get asked this question every day repeatedly. So I want to make sure that people understand that's when the game ends, is when somebody gets 1191. That's when they have enough delegates to declare themselves the nominee. Until that happens, we still have people out in this country that haven't voted and I think that they have a right to be heard from. If they choose to go another way, then so be it; I'll accept that. But I'm not a quitter and I'm not going to quit on the people who got me here.

COLMES: Governor, it's Alan Colmes. I urge you to stay in. I'm glad you are doing it?

HUCKABEE: Thank you.

COLMES: Good to see you once again, governor. You said today upon the sanctioning of the campaign by Mitt Romney of John McCain -- you said, if either he, you that is, or McCain stand on the stage and congratulate the other for winning the nomination, you won't have to take acting lessons to convince people that you like each other. Are you saying Romney is a phony?

HUCKABEE: No. I'm just saying that this is a very new script for Mitt Romney to get on the stage and talk about what a wonderful guy John McCain is. I have been saying nice things about John McCain from the very beginning of our early debates. They are sincere. I like John McCain. I respect him. I do think I would be a better president. I think I'm prepared to be the chief executive, a role that I have played, something no other person running for president has done.

I think that when you are sitting at the Oval Office desk, you need to be able to make the tough decisions, having had the experience of serving in that capacity, and I'm ready to do that.

COLMES: Is Mitt Romney insincere in today's endorsement?

HUCKABEE: I can't judge what's in his heart. I can barely judge what's in mine, much less somebody else's. I'm not going there. I just know what he said today is very different than what he has said in the past about John McCain. Look, I'm glad he is making a decision about supporting somebody. I wish it could have been me, but I didn't expect it. There is no one in the establishment of the Republican party who is jumping all over themselves, breaking legs to run up on the stage with me right now.

But everywhere I'm going in Wisconsin today, we are packing crowds of people in these rallies, still enthusiastic. And they are wanting somebody to be a spokesman for them. I look out there and I don't see the big names, the ones that turn headlines, but I see the people that make America a great country, the homemakers and the truck drivers, and the ordinary folks. That's who the base of our party is.

COLMES: Is there either direct conversations between you and John McCain or back channel talks between the camps in an effort to get to you leave the campaign?

HUCKABEE: No. I have not had any conversations with Senator McCain since Tuesday night, when I called to congratulate him on winning Virginia. I don't think anyone in my campaign is having conversations with people in the McCain camp. John McCain has not asked me to leave. Some of his supporters have. You know, I have no intention of acting according to the supporters of my opponent. That doesn't make any sense.

When my supporters start telling me to quit, I have got to listen to that. But as long as the cheerleaders for my team are still waving their pom-poms, it's hardly time to quit the game and leave the field.

COLMES: The "L.A. Times" has a piece out today saying that you are staying in this game to be regarded as a national leader of evangelicals or maybe a future standard bearer; would that be an accurate assessment of what your intentions are?

HUCKABEE: No, I think the accurate assessment is that I'm still running for president. I have been at this now over 13 months. I have put my heart and soul into it. I have made incredible sacrifices to do this and more importantly, a whole lot of people across America have made major sacrifices for me be here. I owe it to them, to those folks like the truck driver in Michigan named Randy Bishop and the janitor in Birmingham, Alabama named Josh who have given me 20 and 30 dollars and said, hang in there. Don't quit. That's who I look to.

COLMES: Would the vice president be something you would accept?

HUCKABEE: I'm not looking at that. I'm looking to be president. If not, I will support the nominee. I doubt I will be asked to been on ticket. I have stayed longer than some folks want me to.

COLMES: All right, governor. Thank you for coming back on HANNITY AND COLMES. I appreciate it very much.

HUCKABEE: Thank you.

COLMES: Coming up, Ann Coulter told us right here on HANNITY AND COLMES she will support Hillary Clinton if John McCain gets the GOP nod. Well, if things keep going south for the New York senator, will Ann get behind Obama? We're going to ask her coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COULTER: If you are looking at substance rather than whether it's an R or D after his name, manifestly, if he is our candidate, then Hillary is going to be our girl, Sean, because she is more conservative than he is. She would be stronger on the war on terrorism. I absolutely believe that.

HANNITY: That's the one area I disagree with you on.

COLMES: Can I say one thing?

COULTER: Yes, we will sign up together. But let me explain that point on terrorism --

HANNITY: You would vote for Hillary?

COULTER: I will campaign for her if it's McCain.

HANNITY: Is Hillary watching tonight? You just got an endorsement.

COULTER: I was touched when she cried.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Solidarity. Ann Coulter telling the world how she really feels about John McCain. Now that Hillary Clinton's campaign appears to have hit a little bit of a rough patch, will the -- thanks to Ann Coulter, perhaps -- will the conservative columnist throw her support behind Barack Obama? With us now the author of "If Democrats Had Any Brains, They Would be Republicans," A. Heart Coulter. That's what you do to Barack Obama, B. Hussein Obama. What does his middle name have to do?

COULTER: It's really irrelevant because our gal Hillary is doing a fine job now.

COLMES: Why do you keep emphasizing his middle name as if you are trying to associate him with Saddam Hussein.

COULTER: Because I think it's funny.

COLMES: I hear the gales of laughter.

COULTER: She is ahead in Ohio and Texas. Don't count our brave little Hillary out yet.

COLMES: I don't really -- we had a lot of fun when you came on here and you said you would vote for Hillary Clinton if she was the nominee.

COULTER: My in box is full of endorsements of that position.

COLMES: You don't really mean it?

COULTER: No, I do.

COLMES: In the sanctity of a voting booth.

COULTER: Now I'm voting for Huckleberry.

COLMES: What's his name.

COULTER: Because it not only makes him look more ridiculous, but it harms McCain. I think the thing we have to look at at this point, because we are looking at a choice of either George Soros' pick for the Republican party -- he's been funding McCain for many years -- or George Soros --

COLMES: George Soros is funding McCain?

COULTER: He has been. He talked about it on radio today. It's all over the Internet. It's been on news mass.

COLMES: How is he funding McCain?

COULTER: You can look at it on my web page.

COLMES: I'm asking you. How is he funding him?

COULTER: Through --

(CROSS TALK)

COULTER: It's all over the Internet. Through McCain's group called Amnesty Now or something.

COLMES: I need a little more information here.

COULTER: Or Shut Down Guantanamo Now. Or Vote Against Bush's Tax Cuts Now. It was one of those.

COLMES: If it's Barack Obama verses John McCain, what do you do?

COULTER: Look, the election was over on Super Tuesday. The point now is --

COLMES: What do you do if that's the match up?

COULTER: What's the match up again?

COLMES: Barack Obama --

COULTER: They are all Democrats.

COLMES: -- versus John McCain. What do you do?

COULTER: As long as we're going to have a Democrat, I guess I wouldn't mind a young and inexperienced one. That might be what we should look for.

COLMES: You would vote for Barack Obama over John McCain?

COULTER: No, I think the most important thing all conservatives should be fixated on right now is overturning McCain-Feingold, because that's why we ended up with three Democrats running for president.

COLMES: It could very well be Barack Obama versus John McCain.

COULTER: I don't know what he stands for other than hope.

COLMES: What do you do? Do you vote Republican or do you vote Democrat?

COULTER: I have a various mix of positions on various issues. But I'm definitely against hope and I'm against the future.

COLMES: Is there a chance -- I'm against certain people's futures.

COULTER: Hope and the future.

COLMES: Would you vote for Barack Obama if John McCain --

COULTER: I don't know. I don't know why you are obsessed with the answer.

COLMES: Because you said what you would do about Hillary Clinton, but you won't answer about Obama.

COULTER: I know what her positions are. She's better on terrorism, taxes, campaign finance reform and amnesty than John McCain.

HANNITY: Let me bring you in here. When you were on the last time, your phrase was that she, Hillary, is stronger on the war on terrorism.

COULTER: Yes.

HANNITY: That's absurd.

COULTER: No.

HANNITY: Yes, it is.

COULTER: No, Soros is against Hillary. He is for John McCain. He is for B. Hussein Obama.

COLMES: There you go again.

HANNITY: Hillary sent these kids to Iraq and then took credit when we got Saddam Hussein, and then bailed on them and voted to cut off bullets, armor, supplies, et cetera. John McCain, many of your criticism -- wait a minute, many of your criticisms I agree with.

COLMES: Let her talk.

HANNITY: But stronger in the war on terror, John McCain will stay and fight to win in Iraq and prevent al Qaeda and Ahmadinejad from taking over Iraq.

COULTER: This is why I don't think so. What I wrote about in my column this week is, you're looking at what McCain says and what he does when he is seeking the votes either of the voters of Arizona, Goldwater country, or the votes of the Republican party. That's compared to Hillary running -- or seeking the votes from MoveOn.org lunatics and their positions aren't that far apart.

HANNITY: We can go over the criticisms. Now it's becoming like a broken record.

COULTER: No, he hasn't.

HANNITY: On the issue of Iraq, he has not backed down. He has not vacillated.

COULTER: Yes, he did.

HANNITY: The only thing I disagreed with him on was his criticism of Rumsfeld.

COULTER: That was four years. So for four years he attacks the norm, right before he runs for president of the Republicans. He finally joins with the Republicans to say is he for the surge. How about shutting down Guantanamo? How about ending water boarding?

HANNITY: I agree, he's wrong. I disagree with him. Interrogations, Guantanamo --

COULTER: Your campaign on behalf of John McCain is going to be against Hillary Clinton, don't vote for Hillary Clinton, she supported the bills introduced by our candidate.

HANNITY: When you say stronger in the war on terrorism, I can't imagine that we are going to have spent all this time in Iraq and that we are going to elect a president that will get in there in 90 days and pull the plug and hand Iraq over to Ahmadinejad.

COULTER: I wonder if either of the Democrats will do it. All I know about Obama, B. Hussein Obama, is that he is for hope. Hillary has made very clearly --

HANNITY: She absolutely says, I will begin withdrawing in 90 days.

COULTER: Begin. Just last week she said, no we need them.

HANNITY: John McCain says, we will stay until the job is done.

COULTER: Like I say, she is seeking the votes from MoveOn.org. She is seeking the votes of Code Pink. She keeps getting moved down. She will not back down from her vote in Iraq, to go into Iraq. She has not apologized for that. She says we need to leave the troops there for a certain amount of time.

HANNITY: I will not vote for Hillary Clinton under any circumstances. Let me give you another issue.

COULTER: I don't think we are going to have to. I got to tell you, I don't think it's going to be close.

HANNITY: Or Barack Obama. The Gang of 14, put that issue aside, McCain did vote for Alito. He did vote for Roberts. You know and I know, Hillary or Barack Obama are president, you get Ruth Bader Ginsburg II.

COULTER: My objection to this is -- I admit the war on terrorism and the courts isn't the strongest argument -- is that the Republican party treats conservatives the way the Democratic party treats blacks.

HANNITY: That's a separate issue.

COULTER: I'm making my point.

(CROSS TALK)

COLMES: Let her talk. You've got to let Ann talk when she comes on the show.

COULTER: The way the Democrats treat the blacks, they take them for granted, for granted, for granted, when they need our votes. It's for the courts. It's the exact same issue. Where else are you going to go?

HANNITY: But the terror courts, nationalized health care and taxes. I'm just asking.

COULTER: John McCain said he thinks Alito is too conservative.

COLMES: You've done the impossible. You got him to defend John McCain.

COULTER: And he was part of the Gang of 14.

HANNITY: I disagree with him. I'm with you.

COULTER: Get ready for President Hussein. Let's start planning for the next president.

HANNITY: We got to take a break. Ann, we love seeing you.

COULTER: Thank you. Go Hillary.

HANNITY: Can Hillary Clinton catch Barack Obama? The latest polls are out. Not all of them are good news for the former first lady. We are going to cut through the numbers next. She's down by 11 nationally in one. Straight ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Our beloved Ronald Reagan used to say, Congress spends money -- this is Ronald Reagan. I use it all the time. Congress spends money like a drunken sailor, only I never knew a sailor drunk or sober with the imagination of Congress. You know, that's a pretty good line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCOTT RASMUSSEN, RASMUSSEN REPORTS: -- and the demographics there are friendly for her. Senator Clinton always does better with lower income voters. Ohio has been devastated economically. It's a place she should do well.

Texas, we are polling there tonight. I won't know that until tomorrow. We will have some results on our web site at that time.

HANNITY: I don't know why, instinctively, I actually thought that Ohio might be a tougher state for her, but a 21 point lead looks fairly impressive for her. They were of the mind, and actually convinced me, that Texas might be the tougher state based on their experience. Carville is an operative. Do you think he has a good case to make, maybe, off the top of your head, without the numbers.

RASMUSSEN: I think so. Ohio is looking good for her. Texas is going to present some challenges. The other thing we are all ignoring here is Wisconsin. Right now -- and I think, by the way, the Clinton campaign is trying to get us to ignore Wisconsin so they maybe can pull a surprise, beat some expectations. But we show Obama with just a four point lead in Wisconsin. Clinton is going negative with some advertising there. If she makes a good race and is competitive, it's going to change the dynamic.

HANNITY: In looking at your national poll, this is by far the biggest lead that anyone has come out for Barack Obama on a national basis here. Let's just assume that Carville is right and that Ann Coulter is right, you can't count her out, that she is going to come back and she is going to show resiliency that we are not anticipating here. Then we're going to have a mix of delegates, considering Obama won 20 of the 28 most recent contests.

It's a close race. Now we have two factors. We have the super delegate issue, which is going to be a battleground. And then will there be an effort to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates? If there is, people like Al Sharpton and others are saying, no, you can't change the rules in the middle of the game; you can't move the goal post. It's going to be a battle like we have never seen before in the Democratic party.

RASMUSSEN: That's right. That's exactly what you will be hoping for, Sean. If they go to the convention and it comes down to a question of which delegates gets seated or which rules you play by, it's going to be a mess. The last time this happened to the Democrats, in terms of arguing about the rules like this, was 1980. Ted Kennedy tried to get the convention to change the rules so the delegates would be unpledged.

COLMES: Scott, it's Alan. Welcome back to the show. The Democrats are doing everything they can to avoid a floor fight, and that they will try to settle whatever outstanding issues there are before a public convention.

RASMUSSEN: Absolutely. What the Democrats are going to hope for is that somebody, either candidate, goes on a winning streak at the end, pulls a modest lead among the pledged delegates, and can give a reason why they are the clear choice in the Democratic party. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult. The problem that I think the Democrats will have, if that doesn't happen, is, what do you say to either candidate to get them to step aside for the other unless --

COLMES: How fluid is this race in terms of people changing their allegiance within the Democratic party?

RASMUSSEN: Very fluid. Most Democratic voters are very happy with both options. They are willing to change their votes. They are looking at different dynamics. Right now, Hillary Clinton's ratings are falling. People are a little less happy with her than they were before. This is far from a done deal.

COLMES: By the way, I hear that John McCain has a 47 percent unapproval rating. I keep hearing those numbers about Hillary Clinton. He is in that territory too, isn't he.

RASMUSSEN: It's different. Hillary Clinton's opinion is different than either Obama's or McCain's. People have a very firm and fixed opinion of Clinton. It's not going to change. McCain and Obama will be the reason we have campaigns. The country will get to know them. We'll make a decision in November.

COLMES: Thanks Scott. Good to see you once again. Coming up, Al Sharpton turns his back on the NAACP and says the Democratic party is to blame. The Reverend will explain his unlikely breakup coming up next on HANNITY AND COLMES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

COLMES: All right. The controversy surrounding the DNC's decision to strip Florida and Michigan of its delegates continues to heat up. The two wayward states are being punished for moving up their primaries and now will not be represented at the Democratic convention.

The NAACP is urging the party to reinstate these delegates, but in a surprise twist, civil rights activist Al Sharpton sides against them and today released a scathing indictment of its chairman, Julian Bond.

Joining us now is founder of the National Action Network, Reverend Al Sharpton.

Reverend, welcome back to "Hannity & Colmes." Julian Bond is saying those delegates should be counted; voters should not be disenfranchised. Is that not a good argument?

REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: Well, first of all, I talked to Julian Bond today, who said that he doesn't feel the states should be disenfranchised, that he and I are really on the same page, that he did not say these delegates should be seated.

I'm saying unequivocally the DNC cannot announce to the whole country they're not going to recognize these two states. They go forward with the primary vote anyway. People in both states chose, in many cases, not to vote.

Now you're going to come back and say, "We are going to recognize them," which means the people that didn't vote, and felt that they did not have a significance in this, have been disenfranchised. I think that's a violation of their voter rights.

COLMES: I think you've got a very good point there. And I don't want a win to be an ugly win for either candidate on the Democratic side, where there's some contention about whether or not the rules should have been obeyed.

What about the DNC, though, now saying that it will allow each state to hold a different contest, possibly a caucus? Is that a solution?

SHARPTON: Well, it may be. According to how they're doing it, and according to how it rolls out. But I think that my main concern is that you cannot tell voters one thing. They either vote or not vote based on that.

And in Michigan, you've got to remember, Alan, they didn't even have all the candidates' names on the ballot. And then come back and certify these people as winners when it was clearly an announced beauty contest. It meant nothing.

COLMES: Well, what's the solution then? Because you don't want disenfranchised voters. Mary Frances Berry, she's concerned about disenfranchised voters, as well. But if you don't have any ability for these people to vote on delegates or candidates, they are disenfranchised. So what do you do?

SHARPTON: I think the solution is they can come up with some remedy, like a caucus or like primaries. There are still primaries going on and caucuses going on the next two months or more. They can remedy it, but they put themselves in this position, the DNC.

The answer is not to seat the delegates that were selected in what they said would not be a delegate selection process.

COLMES: Why have you not come out for a candidate, either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama?

SHARPTON: Well, there's a classic reason. Because I said I wanted to be free to objectively talk about things like civil and voter rights. So if I was on here tonight as one who had enforced either one, if I had endorsed Senator Obama, you'd be saying I'm doing this for Obama since Hillary won the beauty contest.

Clearly, I'm taking objective views. I think sometimes you have to take that position.

HANNITY: Reverend Al, we've got to go back to this issue, and you even use the term it would be a grave injustice in this particular case. You've threatened that you are opening the door here, that -- for litigation, would open the door for litigation and demonstration. And you said grave injustice. And that the -- that you may, in fact, picket and form picket lines at the Democratic National Committee headquarters. Are you still planning that?

SHARPTON: If, in fact -- if the DNC says that they do not care what anyone says, they're going to seat this, we're not taking it off the table. You've got to remember what they're in effect saying to the people of Michigan and the people of Florida, is that we openly mislead you. And the fact that you didn't use your vote is of no consequence.

HANNITY: But wait a minute.

SHARPTON: I would hope they don't take that position.

HANNITY: But if Alan says -- and I know as this is being discussed here, if they move towards a caucus -- "Wait a minute. They've moved the goal line. They've raised the bar." What about John Edwards, who would have liked to compete there?

Now, they all signed an agreement. For example, Barack Obama and John Edwards, their name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

SHARPTON: That's correct.

HANNITY: But Hillary claims victory. After Florida they'd agreed not to campaign in Florida. The delegates weren't going to be seated. Everybody knew of the rules going in.

SHARPTON: That's correct.

HANNITY: Hillary goes out the night that the Florida numbers came in, claims a big victory to try and create a perception here. Now there's talk she may even sue to get these delegates seated or have surrogates do that. Isn't that cheating? That's cheating, isn't it?

SHARPTON: Well, it's certainly changing the course midstream. If they come up with a remedy, as I said. It's according to what it is that can address all this.

HANNITY: Is that fair to John Edwards? You even -- you even said -- you said, "This smacks of the same stuff we accused the Republicans of in Florida in 2000," changing the rules. If you have a caucus you've changed the rules late in the game. Why would you even that anyway?

SHARPTON: We do not know, as I said, without asking, what the caucus would look like or if John Edwards would come out and say it's fair or not fair. Are you asking me to agree or disagree with something I don't even know what it looks like?

HANNITY: But the point is, anything short of what it is and what they agreed to is a change in the rules, and it's obviously going to be done to benefit somebody. And -- and John Edwards will absolutely be somebody that is -- that is punished for it, because he doesn't get to compete.

SHARPTON: I think I'm the one that raised that it's unfair. And again, John Edwards will have to see, as I and everyone else, what it is they come with and determine at that point if he feels it's unfair. At this point, any change is wrong.

COLMES: Well, thank you very much, Reverend.

SHARPTON: That's correct.

COLMES: Thanks for coming on the program.

About Us | RSS | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy         © RealClearPolitics 2008