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February 11, 2008

Frank Luntz Focus Group; Colmes Interviews Hannity

Hannity & Colmes

FRANK LUNTZ, FRAKNLUNTZ.COM: -- reaction to tape that we showed of the two candidates, Mr. Obama and Senator Clinton. The blue line represents moderates, the yellow line represents liberals. We wanted to see what language particularly played among our Democratic caucus and Democratic in this case primary voters. Watch how long the lines climb when Barack Obama takes a decidedly non-partisan approach to the Republican party. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're up against decades of bitter partisanship that cause politicians to demonize their opponents, instead of coming together to make college affordable or energy cleaner. It's the kind of partisanship where you're not even allowed to say that a Republican had an idea, even if it's one you never agreed with. That's the kind of politics that is bad for our party. It is bad for our country. And this is our chance to end it once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LUNTZ: Fantastic. He's talking about ending partisanship, and yet you're all Democrats. What was so appealing about that message?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This Hatfield and McCoy thing is just old now, and we need to do something together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's basically that nothing gets done unless people are totally together. If you have differences of opinion, you can argue until you're dead to the face, but nothing's ever going to get done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obama looks like he can be the great uniter of the country.

LUNTZ: And yet you support Hillary Clinton?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And yet my heart and my mind go with Hillary because I think she's the stronger candidate.

LUNTZ: How many of you find Obama inspirational? Raise your hands. Everybody. But how many of you who find him inspirational are supporting Hillary Clinton? So what is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that Hillary can win. I think that Obama is very inspirational. He's really invigorating to the youngsters in the country. But I think Hillary is a stronger candidate and she has more backbone.

LUNTZ: You reacted favorably to Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think with Congress at its lowest approval rating ever, you have to elect a candidate who believes in change and gets people to believe in his kind of change. He's the person I think that's going to turn things around.

LUNTZ: Sean, you've got a question for our group.

HANNITY: I do, Frank. In large part, it's a follow-up to a question we asked the last time because we got so much reaction on it. There's only nuance differences on positions between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. The big issue, as you just showed this audience, is about personality. For the Obama supporters, specifically, can they cite, beyond his personality, any specific Obama accomplishment?

LUNTZ: Here we go again. First, how many of you think there's a significant policy difference between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama? Raise your hands? Not one of you. Not one of you. Then here we go. Name me a Barack Obama accomplishment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That he served in the Senate.

LUNTZ: So he got elected? That's an accomplishment? Name me one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He voted in the Senate for child --

LUNTZ: He votes as a senator. That's an accomplishment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He gave a great speech to not go to war in Iraq.

LUNTZ: Giving a speech is not an accomplishment. Tina?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pass.

LUNTZ: You pass? On national television you pass. Does anyone have an accomplishment? Name one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's the only African-American senator.

LUNTZ: Because of his color, that's what you call it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an accomplishment because there aren't any other African-American minorities.

LUNTZ: Alan, you've got a question.

COLMES: Yes, the fact is that issue by issue they really do agree substantially. So for the Obama supporters and for the Hillary supporters, what specifically is swaying the vote in either direction?

LUNTZ: Good question. How many of you changed your minds in terms of Obama and Hillary within the last eight weeks? Raise your hands. A fair number of you. What caused you to change your mind?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Health care.

LUNTZ: And what about health care?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary's health care plan seemed more like a forced health care plan, where Obama's health care plan was more optional. You can buy into it if you wanted to.

LUNTZ: You changed your mind?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I think Obama's health care plan is definitely going to increase quality health care, and I think Hillary's plan may decrease the quality of health care, because of it being mandated per see.

LUNTZ: What specifically is the difference between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Hillary Clinton has some plans, where as if you take a look at the Obama speeches, you don't get the substance. You only get froth and apologies.

LUNTZ: Quick answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Substance. Hillary has more -- they're both inspirational candidates, but Hillary has more substance.

LUNTZ: Alan, Sean, we'll be back later on with more from our Democratic focus group. And we're going to be focusing on Hillary Clinton.

COLMES: We'll see you in a few minutes. Thank you very much, Frank. Coming up, our own Sean Hannity graces the cover of "Newsweek." How did that happen? We'll give you the inside story. We have him as a guest coming up. It was a tough booking. Hope you like our green room snacks. Sean Hannity joins us in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

COLMES: Our very own Sean Hannity is featured -- there it is -- on the cover of this week's "Newsweek" for the alleged feud...

HANNITY: That's me.

COLMES: ... conservatives have -- can I get on with the interview?

HANNITY: Go ahead.

COLMES: With Republican presidential candidate John McCain. Here to set the record straight about the article, our own Sean Hannity. Look...

HANNITY: By the way, in all the years we've been on since 1997, this is the first time...

COLMES: No, it's not.

HANNITY: ... in the history...

COLMES: No, it's not. Excuse me, I'm going to do the interview. Don't pretend (ph) you're leading.

HANNITY: Hang on a second.

COLMES: Excuse me. I'll conduct the interview.

HANNITY: You interrupt every other guest.

COLMES: You never let a guest speak. Now you're going to know what it's like. So you taking a stand against John McCain. George Bush calls him a conservative. Gary Bauer today endorses him. Tell me the back story on this.

HANNITY: The back story is, look, it's amazing how this is being played to the media because they're saying we're saying all these horrible things. There will be blood, it says here. It's not a matter of blood.

Senator McCain, and I was trying to tell Geraldo this the other night. He has his Straight Talk Express. I've been on the air for radio for 20 years. We've been on FOX since 1996. I've taken positions on immigration, on freedom of speech, on ANWR, on Gitmo, on interrogations, all the list that we have gone through here, judges and everything else. There are serious substantive disagreements.

On measure, those that are trying to convince us or morph Senator McCain into Ronald Reagan, I don't believe it. Is he a better candidate than Hillary Clinton? Yes. Is he a better candidate than Barack Obama? Absolutely.

What conservatives are concerned about, Alan, and what they're wanting out of Senator McCain, you know, he says he's a maverick. He'll reach over and do a deal with Ted Kennedy. He'll do a deal with Russ Feingold.

COLMES: ... together with the other party.

HANNITY: Hang on a second. Conservatives are saying reach over to us. We want to know that you won't go back to McCain-Feingold. We want to know that you'll put judges like Thomas and Alito and Scalia and Roberts on the bench. We want specific promises. You didn't vote for the tax cuts. We want to know you'll make them permanent. And earmarks and some of the other things.

So he has an opportunity here, in my mind, to reach out to conservatives.

COLMES: Seventy-six percent of Republican voters in this very same "Newsweek" article, 69 percent of self-described conservatives say they're satisfied with McCain as the nominee.

Is the people on the cover -- are the people on the cover and the cabal of conservative talk show hosts who disagree with John McCain out of touch with either mainstream America or even your own Republican Party?

HANNITY: Look, I will tell you this. Look at this weekend. I would argue that one of the reasons -- I think a lot of conservatives weren't paying attention to Senator McCain is because early on he was, after McCain-Kennedy people said his campaign was over. They didn't think he was going to go very far.

Now, secondly, when it was Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee still in the race, I would argue that they were probably splitting some of the conservative vote. But one -- there's one exit poll phenomenon you cannot deny. And that is, in almost every case -- we saw this in the exit polls over the weekend when he was losing to Mike Huckabee. And that is conservatives, overwhelming, are voting against him, and this is the base of the party.

He finds himself, Alan, in a unique position. Most people when they, quote, "sew up the nomination," they reach -- they move to the center. In his case, if he doesn't move to the right...

COLMES: You're not answering my question.

HANNITY: I am answering your question.

COLMES: The question is, are you out of touch with the mainstream America in mainstream America that is favoring John McCain overwhelmingly, contrary to what conservatives...

HANNITY: Let me say it slowly so you get it.

COLMES: I'm not that bright. Write it in big doodles. I'd really appreciate it.

HANNITY: In all seriousness, here, if you look at the exit polls, he even this weekend, a head to head match-up, he's not winning the conservative vote in his own party. Now, what does this mean? I thought Senator McCain had a great start at CPAC in terms of healing this rift. And here's what he did. He said there's a problem. And you can't solve a problem unless you acknowledge it.

The second thing he did, he said I can't win without conservatives. He laid out where he is conservative, in the earmarks. Certainly, he's been great on the war. I don't think anybody's going to deny that. On -- mostly on abortion issues, not 100 percent but mostly.

So the next step here is I think, like he would reach out to Kennedy and Feingold, I would urge him -- he doesn't have to listen to me, but I would usual him to reach out to conservatives and shore up...

COLMES: He already has though, hasn't he, by going to CPAC? Has his campaign reached out to you?

HANNITY: I -- I have invited Senator McCain on this program...

COLMES: Right.

HANNITY: ... to sit down and do a one-hour, one-on-one interview with me. You do your one-on-one interviews, I do mine. And just go over all these issues of concern that conservatives have.

COLMES: Let me ask you this. Ronald Reagan, who's often heralded as the great conservative, the standard by which every other conservative is judged. Here's a guy was a union leader, till he busted a union. He was an FDR Democrat. He got into office. He gave amnesty to immigrants. He cut and ran from Lebanon. He did so many of the things that, in today's conservative world, would never be acceptable. And yet, he's held up as this great conservative icon.

HANNITY: Michael -- Michael Reagan would tell you that...

COLMES: He would not be able to survive in today's conservative...

HANNITY: I study Reagan. Reagan is my model.

COLMES: I just mentioned all the things he did.

HANNITY: I have read every single book that's ever been written on Reagan, and "Reagan in His Own Hand is probably the best book, because it's Reagan...

COLMES: What about the things I just said?

HANNITY: ... as a great ideological conservative thinker that he was.

Reagan had strong values and principles, Alan. Cutting taxes, I doubt President Reagan would have voted against the Bush tax cuts and would have used the class warfare rhetoric that John McCain did.

I bet Ronald Reagan would be for energy independence in ANWR. I bet he'd be for Gitmo. I bet he'd be for stronger interrogations. I think he would have no problem talking about originalists -- originalist justices on the bench.

COLMES: He appointed Kennedy. He appointed Kennedy. He appointed O'Connor. They weren't originalists.

HANNITY: So there is no perfect person, Alan, but clearly on issues of dropping the top marginal rates from 70 to 28 percent and showing you can double revenues to the government, followed by standing up to the Soviet Union and building up your nation's military, Reagan defines modern conservatism.

What's fascinating about this, here it is. He was elected in 1980. Look at how Reagan has been a major factor, not only on the Republican side, but on the Democratic side, as well.

COLMES: On the issues I just mentioned. Supreme Court justices. Look who he appointed. These were not strict constructionists in the mold of Alito. This guy, he appointed Kennedy, and he appointed Sandra Day O'Connor.

HANNITY: He also had for most of his presidency, if you recall, he was dealing with Tip O'Neill in the House.

COLMES: And guess who the next president's going to deal with? Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

HANNITY: I would bet with their approval rating...

COLMES: I don't think so, because the Democrats are probably going to win the presidency.

HANNITY: I take that back.

COLMES: Anyway, thanks for coming on "Hannity & Colmes."

HANNITY: I'm very glad to be here.

COLMES: I hope you enjoyed your experience.

HANNITY: Neal Boortz is coming up next.

COLMES: I hope we can get you back on the program sometime.

HANNITY: Maybe. We'll see.

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