Election 2008 Obama vs. McCain | Clinton vs. McCain | Latest 2008 Polls | Latest 2008 News

January 15, 2008

Rep. Clyburn on "Charlie Rose"

Charlie Rose

CHARLIE ROSE: We begin this evening with the man that everybody wants to talk to, Congressman James Clyburn from South Carolina. He is the third ranking Democrat. He`s a powerful force in South Carolina politics and national politics and the Democratic Party.

Congressman Clyburn, thank you for doing this.

JAMES CLYBURN: Well, thank you so much for having me.

CHARLIE ROSE: You`ve been away out of the country and now you`re back, and while you`ve gone, some waters have been stirred. You have spoken from a distance about it. Tell me what you make of all the things that have happened.

JAMES CLYBURN: Well, I think it`s very, very unfortunate that this campaign, that I thought was being conducted on a very high plain by all the candidates, I was very proud of that field of candidates that we have. I`m very proud of the three that are still left. I`m very hopeful now that this little episode will get behind us very soon, and we can go back to talking about which one of these three people will best represent the interests of the Democratic Party as we go into the general elections. I am hopeful that that will take place very soon.

CHARLIE ROSE: Which one do you think will best represent the interests of the Democratic Party?

JAMES CLYBURN: Well, all three of these people are outstanding people. I`ve known all of them for a very, very long time. I`m very proud of them. I think that they represent what we were looking for when we asked the South Carolina General Assembly to take over the primaries in South Carolina and to help us put our state on the map, help us try to further our number-one industry, which is tourism.

And I think to have these three people at this point in history -- the first realistic chance to elect a woman to the presidency; a very realistic chance to elect an African-American; a Southern white gentleman who was born in South Carolina -- to have these three people contesting in South Carolina at this particular juncture in our state`s history is just a very, very proud moment for us. And any one of them will make an outstanding president.

CHARLIE ROSE: What do the latest polls show?

JAMES CLYBURN: I don`t know. As you know, I just returned to the country this morning. I have not seen any new polling in South Carolina yet. I understand, though, that the national polls have tightened considerably between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama. And ...

CHARLIE ROSE: That means that Senator Obama has gained on Senator Clinton, because she was leading the national polls.

JAMES CLYBURN: Yes, and she`s still leading the national polls, but they`ve tightened significantly, according to what I saw in, I think, "The Washington Post" this morning.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right. And what about in South Carolina, though? I mean, has any of this controversy over who said what and whether it was an insult to African-Americans, even if it was misinterpreted, made a difference?

JAMES CLYBURN: I don`t know. I have not gone home. I`ve spoken with some of my friends down there. I saw some interviews earlier with I.S. Johnson (ph), and I saw some snippets of the Bob Johnson comments. Bob and I.S. are both very good friends, they have both names of Johnson, and so I suspect that just because they`ve got similar names won`t necessarily mean they will see things the same, and they see it a little bit differently. I think one is for Mrs. Clinton; the other is for Mr. Obama.

CHARLIE ROSE: So, what did you make of what Bob Johnson said? I mean, he`s a very prominent African-American businessman, a billionaire who created BET.

JAMES CLYBURN: Yes.

CHARLIE ROSE: Go ahead.

JAMES CLYBURN: And a very close friend of mine. I`ve known Bob since he was a press secretary on the Hill working for Walter Fauntroy.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.

JAMES CLYBURN: That`s when we first met. And I think that he`s a businessman much more than a politician. And sometimes business people who don`t practice politics daily will say things in a very unartful way. And he said that was the case here. And it`s not all that unusual.

When I was serving on a bank board before I came to Congress, I remember a lot of the businessmen around there would take lessons in public speaking in order to better present themselves on television. So, these kinds of things sometimes happen when people get outside of their element.

CHARLIE ROSE: But it is said that you reacted negatively and were -- and said so about some of the things that you had heard said that came from within -- either from Senator Clinton or from President Clinton, that you articulated how this could be felt deeply by African-Americans.

JAMES CLYBURN: Sure. I don`t think I was being negative. I think I was trying to say to the candidates to be very, very careful how you address certain issues. For instance, Dr. King and his period in our history is something that we all hold dear. And I know that Senator Clinton does also. She met Dr. King, I think she says as a 14-year-old. I was a little bit older when I first met him. And he is to be revered, and I think you have to be very careful how you talk about these kinds of things and particularly that particular era, because so many of us who are serving in the Congress today -- John Lewis, Bennie Thompson, myself and many, many others -- came out of that era.

We -- we credit our being in Congress to the success of that particular period in history. And so, we have to be very careful about how we attribute those contributions when we talk about them.

CHARLIE ROSE: And you accept exactly her explanation of what she meant.

JAMES CLYBURN: Oh, yeah, I do. And I hope we will move on beyond this.

You know, South Carolina is going to give us a tremendous opportunity to do some things that I don`t think people have focused on yet. When I made the appeal to the Democratic National Committee to allow South Carolina to go in this preprimary window, I talked about our state being a laboratory. Four distinct different cultures in a pretty, relatively small state that gives us an opportunity to see -- create a real political laboratory.

You can look at the PD (ph) of South Carolina, which is a culture, that`s agricultural, largely rural and high in African-American vote. You go to the Piedmont, where it`s manufacturing -- that`s where BMW and other big manufacturing plants are -- the people are different up there.

These candidates can come into our state as they have come. They can go to the Midlands, where our seat of government is and educational facilities are, go down in the Lowcountry, down around Charleston, where our tourism trade is, and get a tremendous cross-section of what America is all about.

And so, I think that when the primary is over, we`ll be able to look back and see just how well our candidates acquitted themselves among various segments of the population, the voting population.

So I am very proud of the fact that South Carolina is providing that opportunity to all the candidates on both sides of the aisle.

CHARLIE ROSE: Will you endorse somebody?

JAMES CLYBURN: I have no plans to make an endorsement. I do believe that I endorse bringing the primary to the state. I have brought now -- I`ve had a hand in bringing three different debates, one at South Carolina State, my alma mother, which is history making in and of itself.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right.

JAMES CLYBURN: One at the Citadel, when people said the Democratic Party having something at the Citadel? That`s in my district as well. And then the Congressional Black Caucus will be coming to Myrtle Beach on the 21st, Dr. King`s birthday celebration day.

These are historic things. And what has happened from that, Charlie, for the first time in the history Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, will be celebrating Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.`s birthday, and I`m going to be speaking at the celebration this Sunday evening before this debate.

This debate created the atmosphere within which that could happen. And so, I`m very proud of what we`ve done with this, and I think for me to get in and start playing partisan politics by endorsing at this particular juncture could very well have adverse impact on my party in South Carolina and my state that I love very dearly.

CHARLIE ROSE: It`s unfair to Senator Edwards to leave him out of this conversation, but in -- but most of it, the dialogue now is about Senator Obama and Senator Clinton.

I assume you have talked even this day to both of them. Have you?

JAMES CLYBURN: Yes, I have.

CHARLIE ROSE: Imagine my surprise.

JAMES CLYBURN: In fact, I had a very long talk with President Clinton about the -- right around about an hour after I got off the plane today.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what did he say?

JAMES CLYBURN: Well, we talked about the unfortunate circumstances that we find ourselves in. And I promised him, as I have all the other candidates, I will do my level best to help get us beyond this, because this campaign is about change. This campaign is about reordering our priorities on an international stage, about redirecting our resources here domestically.

We have an economy that seems to be tanking. We`ve got a health care system that is broken. We`ve got an educational system that needs a lot of work. We`ve got people whose dreams and aspirations seem to be falling on deaf ears. And so, we are going to try and bring about change in this country. And one of these three people, I think, will get us there.

CHARLIE ROSE: All right. Tell me this: What did Senator Clinton say to you, or President Clinton about their case and how they feel about what has transpired in the last week while you were away?

JAMES CLYBURN: I think they both -- I`ve spoken to both of them. I think they are both very remorseful about this. I`ve spoken with Senator Obama.

CHARLIE ROSE: What did he say?

JAMES CLYBURN: Senator Obama would love for this to get behind us. This -- this gentleman has a resume that all of us worked hard back in the `60s to bring about. We were working so that the Obamas, who by the way, is the same age, or just a few months of difference between him and my daughter Mignon. We will ...

CHARLIE ROSE: My friend.

JAMES CLYBURN: Your friend. Absolutely. To make sure that Mignon and Barack would not have to go through the things that we went through. And so, I`m very proud of both of them. And so, we ought not really have this campaign being bogged done with race or gender.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK. Let me ask you this, then, do you think it`s necessary for Senator Clinton and Senator Obama to step forward and say anybody who works for me who says anything to stir either gender or racial feelings as an incitement to vote one way or the other ought to be dismissed from the campaign and pledge to do that?

JAMES CLYBURN: No, I don`t think so. I really believe that when these kinds of missteps are taken, people who make them owe it to the American public to explain what they are saying and what they meant. I don`t believe, having been a candidate very often myself, that we ought to just be so insanely politically correct about everything that happens in a campaign.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right. Right.

JAMES CLYBURN: We ought to accept it as people making mistakes, and move on.

CHARLIE ROSE: As the remarks so far about -- about fairy tales and about Martin Luther King and Lyndon Johnson and others.

JAMES CLYBURN: Yes. I think it`s time for us to move on for that. Both -- all of these people have explained what they meant.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK.

JAMES CLYBURN: And I think that we ought to just move from that, or just go back to talking about health care and whether or not we can get all of our people with health care and educational opportunities, et cetera.

CHARLIE ROSE: You were scheduled to be on my program tomorrow night, and we wanted to do it this evening because my -- the day that you get back. My impression is that you felt like it was urgent to speak out now?

JAMES CLYBURN: Yes, I did. I really felt so remorseful about this. And as I mentioned to you earlier, about an hour after I got off the plane, I heard from President Clinton. About 15 minutes later, I got an e-mail from my daughter, Mignon. My wife has been saying to me, somebody needs to rise up and get this thing behind us so that the American people can have a very good, fruitful discussion about what ails us.

CHARLIE ROSE: I`m asking you, not suggesting they do or don`t, all of them want to do that and all of them have reached out to you to help do that so that this will be about the vision and the experience and the sense of what is the best person at this moment to lead the Democratic Party and perhaps to lead the country?

JAMES CLYBURN: Yes, I think so. I`ve also heard from my pastor, who is an adviser of mine, and he has asked me to do the same thing. And that`s why I`m doing this, because I feel very strongly that this country of ours is moving in the wrong direction. We must get it back on track. I feel very strongly that the candidates on both sides are offering discussions. I just feel that these three Democrats are outstanding public servants, who ought to be allowed to get their messages out without having to filter through anything like race and gender questions.

None of us asked to come here by sex or by race. None of us asked to come here at all. But all of us are responsible for doing something with ourselves once we`re here.

These three Democratic candidates have done remarkable things with their lives. They ought to be able to share those experiences with the American people in such a way that the American people can be futuristic when they go to the polls and vote about them -- vote on them -- and don`t have to worry about what may or may not be things in the past that none of us have much control over.

CHARLIE ROSE: What impact has this -- this discussion, in its best and its worst -- and obviously you think it reached a certain level of being its worst, because you are speaking out as you are now, with a certain urgency, to move beyond it. What impact is it having on the ground in South Carolina among people who will be voting in the primary?

JAMES CLYBURN: Well, it`s not having a good impact right now.

CHARLIE ROSE: What does that mean, though, not having a good impact?

JAMES CLYBURN: I think that people are talking about race versus gender, when we ought to be talking about Democrats versus Republicans, when we ought to be talking about health care, comparing health care programs, when we ought to be talking about a shared vision, contrasting these candidates` visions.

We cannot get to that if we keep plowing old ground and dealing with those issues that are divisive. We ought to be talking about what unites us as a country and how we can unite around an agenda. But we don`t -- would not know what agenda to unite around if we don`t allow these candidates to get out and talk the agenda.

CHARLIE ROSE: Let me ask you this: Is Senator Obama experienced and prepared sufficiently to be president, a question that has been raised about him earlier?

JAMES CLYBURN: I think so. I think he has a tremendous resume.

You know, I talk all the time about people being what their experiences allow them to be. I think Senator Clinton is very prepared. I think Senator Edwards is very well prepared. So, I think that all of us have different resumes, you know, no matter who we are. No two people in this country has had -- have had the same set of experiences. All of us have had different experiences, even if you are brothers and sisters growing up in the same household.

So we ought to look at these candidates and look at their experiences, look at what they bring to the discussion, and judge them based upon that. And I do believe that good experiences and bad experiences can be lived. Just look at these people and see whether or not their good outweigh what may not be as good.

CHARLIE ROSE: So you`re saying there`s no one sure certain experience to have, that lots of experiences create a human being that makes them in preparation for whatever the next challenge might be.

JAMES CLYBURN: Absolutely.

CHARLIE ROSE: And on the Senator Clinton`s side, you stepped forward also to say, I assume, that she is as much an apostle of change as anyone else, and a symbol of change, and the fact this she served in the administration in the `90s and has been part of the conversation of America for a longer time does not mean that she`s not every bit as forward-looking and an agent of change as Senator Obama?

JAMES CLYBURN: But that`s quite true. That`s quite true. The thing is, it`s almost like (inaudible). We want -- we -- these people are applying for a job, they are submitting us their resume. And we may look at these people and say, you know, this person would be stronger in this area than this person, then the other person may be stronger in another area than that person. And we look at this and see what it is that we want to take chances on.

And there are people who will say, I want to see change, but I want to go towards a change that Senator Clinton is advocating. Others will say, I want to go towards the change Senator Edwards or Senator Obama are advocating.

All three of them are advocating a change in direction. Some of them, they`ve all submitted, say, their health care programs. They are not the same things. They are different. So we ought to take a look at this and say which one of these health care programs I want to see put in place? And which one of these people I want to see occupy the office.

We can`t do that if we keep talking about their race and their gender. All of that took place a long time ago. We don`t have anything to do with that.

CHARLIE ROSE: You are also saying that women shouldn`t necessarily vote for Hillary Clinton because she`s a woman, and African-Americans shouldn`t necessarily vote for Barack Obama because he`s an African-American.

JAMES CLYBURN: And I`m also saying you shouldn`t vote against her because she`s a woman, nor against him because he is an African-American.

I do believe, though, that there are some people who will make decisions based upon that. But I don`t think that they would be the ones who will control the outcome of this election. I think the thinking people of South Carolina will be voting on the 26th and making their decision. The thinking people of the United States of America will select the next president, not those the knee-jerk reactors who are going to be there no matter what we do.

CHARLIE ROSE: Congressman Clyburn, it`s always great to have you on this program. I hope we can do this again soon. I thank you for coming here to, in a sense, say some things that you thought were very important to say, because you worried that the debate and the conversation was getting out of -- was going down the wrong road.

JAMES CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me, Charlie.

CHARLIE ROSE: Congressman James Clyburn, third-ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives. The man who is often said to be the most powerful voice in South Carolina politics.

About Us | RSS | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy         © RealClearPolitics 2008