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January 11, 2008

Luntz On What's Next; Clintons' Race Problems

Hannity & Colmes

ALAN COLMES: Welcome to HANNITY AND COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes. Get right to our top story tonight; the Michigan primary is now just four days away. And the Republican primary in South Carolina and the Democratic caucuses in Nevada are just eight days from now. Joining us now with more on what comes next and how last night's debate, right here one Fox, is already impacting the race, our very own Frank Luntz.

First question is, for whom is it now do or die coming up?

FRANK LUNTZ, FRANKLUNTZ.COM: Clearly Romney has to win Michigan. You cannot lose the first three races having put so much money, and so much effort, and so much time into it, and then come in second all of these races.

COLMES: He's gone after Michigan if he doesn't win?

LUNTZ: Look, when you have that much money, you can always hang in there. But Mitt Romney has to prove he's a winner. He can't wait any longer.

COLMES: Giuliani's got to win Florida?

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: He won Wyoming.

LUNTZ: But no one paid attention to it.

COLMES: You have interesting some focus stuff on John McCain.

LUNTZ: Yes, because it got left behind yesterday, and it's very interesting. John McCain is a brand-new candidate, the Mac attack or the Mac is back. And it is relevant. And we used some of our patented Fox News dial -- they're starting to call it the Luntz-O-Meter now, which I appreciate.

COLMES: That's branding, isn't it?

LUNTZ: It's good for my speech fees. But John McCain is incredible when talks about economic issues, taxes and the budget. Watch how high the lines climb, that's the favorability, when John McCain talks about ending wasteful Washington spending and making the tax cuts permanent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that one of the first things that we have to do that I forgot to mention is make these tax cuts permanent because we've got to give some certainty to families and businesses all over America that these tax cuts will not expire and then give them the effect of a tax increase.

So I believe they stimulate the economy. But, Chris, you've got to cut spending. I'm proud to have been a foot soldier of the Reagan Revolution, a foot soldier. We cut taxes, but Ronald Reagan knew we had to cut spending at the same time. And that was our great failure as a party. We cut taxes, and then we let spending get out of control, and, frankly, it cost us a great deal.

If we would have adopted the tax cut package that I have, which entails spending cuts, then we would be talking about more tax cuts today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: He's got to make that point, because among conservatives they accuse him of not wanting tax cuts and being against Bush's tax cuts. But he had his own plan that involved spending cuts, which he felt were necessary to off-set the tax cuts.

LUNTZ: In all the studies that we've done, Republicans and independents and Democrats as well would rather end wasteful Washington spending than add more tax cuts. In McCain's approach --

COLMES: It still hurts him with hard-core conservatives, who are saying he's not on board with tax cuts.

LUNTZ: On economic issues, John McCain is dead on with conservatives. There's another issue where he weakens, and that is --

HANNITY: I want to get to that in a second.

COLMES: You have a piece on -- you went to the Citadel. That's where you did your focus groups. And you asked some kids about what they want in politics.

LUNTZ: The Citadel cadets are incredible people. If you think that - -

COLMES: They're Cadets, not kids.

LUNTZ: But they're 18, 19, 20 years old, and they're bright. They're articulate. They're smart. And they care about this country. And they're not all Republican. We had the opportunity to listen to what they had to say about America, where this country is headed, and, in particular, where their politics are headed.

Let's listen to the cadets from the Citadel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm looking for a candidate more who has family values and integrity and morality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd really like to see the Bush tax cuts repealed, and I'd like to see us fix our health care system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The war in Iraq is important to everybody in the American public, and I think it's important. I think what's also important to me is the way that they would like the rest of the world to see us and their opinion on foreign policy and their plan in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to hear a discussion -- they know they've already made a plan for something. And I want to hear someone who's going to be dynamic and lead this country and be here for us vocally and lead us to success.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to hear how -- as I said, I want to hear that they want to fix the economy, because right now we're failing. The dollar's going down against -- China has bought a lot of our value, and it's hurting us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Smart kids. That's pretty impressive.

LUNTZ: They sound like their parents. It's the next generation. But they're so clean cut, and two of those people there are going to be going to Iraq. And what's interesting for them is we all talk about Iraq policy --

HANNITY: They're going.

LUNTZ: They're going.

HANNITY: Let me go back to -- first of all, I do have a slight disagreement with you about Mitt Romney and having to win Michigan. I think I can lay out a scenario that people would believe about any Republican candidate right now having an ability to win based on events that we don't even -- we can't foresee right now. I'm not so sure, Michigan, I agree with you about that.

I want to go to Senator McCain, who now is the front-runner in South Carolina. Senator McCain does have a problem. It with conservatives. This showed up on the question of immigration when you reminded your focus group last night. Why don't we throw to that tape.

LUNTZ: What's fascinating about this is that his overall position on immigration has both pluses and minuses. When he talks about securing the borders, you get a positive reaction, but anything that even hints of amnesty is a killer. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: I will secure the borders first, and I will have the border state governors certify that those borders are secured. And we can do it with UAVs, with vehicle barriers, with walls, and with high tech and cameras. The remaining 12 million -- obviously two million of them who have committed crimes have to be deported immediately. They cannot stay in our society. And we must then, in my view, address it in as humane and compassionate way as possible.

The three GI's who were missing last year in action. One of them, who was still missing in action, his wife was about to be deported from this country. I'm not going to deport the wife of a fighting serviceman who's missing in action. I'm going to handle it in a humane and compassionate fashion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: That's fascinating here. Here's the question I have; he's not in an independent state like New Hampshire, and he has problems with conservatives on taxes, McCain/Feingold, McCain/Kennedy, Gang of 14, Marriage Amendment, how does he win these primaries when people go after his more liberal record on these social issues?

LUNTZ: It's his personality, and I compared both rMDNM_McCain and Romney. Romney has the right policies, but the way he presents himself is very cold and stiff. John McCain has that kind of kick butt mentality. Very positive among these kinds of voters. And his own personal story still plays. The problem is, his policies don't sell as well.

HANNITY: We've had this ebb and flow. People had discounted any possibility he could win. But now he's there.

LUNTZ: Sean, this is "Survivor." Every candidate gets voted off the island after each primary, and John McCain may end up being the one left standing, because he's everybody's second choice.

HANNITY: All right, we'll see. Frank Luntz, always good to see you.

Coming up, Hillary may feel like she's got the winner's momentum, but comments made by her, Bill, and her supporters about Barack Obama have spurred racial tensions between the to two candidates. We're going to play you some of those comments tonight and you decide. That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am running for president not to put band-aids on our problems, but to solve our problems, and so I will solve it. Thank you all very, very much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: It has been said that he was America's first black president, but tonight the Clintons have some race problems. Now, it all stems from these comments that Bill made in New Hampshire that some African-American leaders consider offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution. You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you're now running on off your website in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since.

Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tail I've ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Now, earlier today, Clinton appeared on Al Sharpton's radio show to try and make amends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: That doesn't have anything to do with my respect for him as a person or as a political figure in this campaign. He's put together a great campaign. It's clearly not a fairy tail. It's real. And I have gone out of my way not to express any personal disrespect for him or his campaign, even when they've been fairly critical of me and Hillary.

REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: So you're saying that the claim that he was always against the war was a fairy tail?

CLINTON: Yes, but there's nothing fairy tail about his campaign. It's real, strong, and he might win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: In South Carolina, Congressman James Clyburn is reportedly upset with Clinton's comments and is considering throwing out his neutrality in the race in favor of Barack Obama. He's also said to be upset with these comments that Hillary Clinton made to Major Garrett earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, when he was able to get through Congress something that President Kennedy was hopeful to do; the president before had not even tried. But it took a president to get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Apparently, Clyburn thinks that those comments minimize Dr. King and, taken in conjunction with the, quote, fairy tail remark, that means trouble for Bill and Hillary Clinton. Joining us now from National Public Radio is Fox News contributor Juan Williams; from the Claire Boothe Lece Policy Institute Kate Obenshain is with us; and the author of "Meet the Next President, What You Don't Know About the Candidates," Fox News contributor bill Sammon is with us.

Juan, let me begin with you in all this. I have said this for years, and it is frustrating to me because 90 percent of the African-American that vote in this country goes to the Democratic party in most elections, but yet Bill Clinton says his political mentor was J. William Fullbright, who was a known segregationist. Al Gore's father was not there for the 1964 Civil Rights Act of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

Lyndon Johnson was depending on Republicans to get those votes passed. I have Roger Clinton on tape using the N word multiple times. During the Clinton years, you have a former klansman who used the N word on Fox News Sunday, Robert Byrd, and somehow the Democrats gave the Clintons a pass. He didn't appoint African-Americans to the highest positions of power. How did he get this reputation in the first place?

JUAN WILLIAMS, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Well, he did appoint African- Americans to his cabinet.

HANNITY: Not many, not in high positions.

WILLIAMS: In all fairness, not as many as President Bush. If you wanted to have a point of comparison, it would favor your argument. But I think the argument has more historical bearing, Sean. I mean, if you think back to that 1964 period with the Civil Rights Act, you've got to remember Barry Goldwater, and Barry Goldwater was opposed to the Civil Rights Act.

Clearly, that was the beginning of a southern strategy that has captured the south pretty much for white conservatives and made the south more Republican, done away with the Dixie-crats, and posited whites, as opposed to blacks, as being in the Republican party, and sometimes those are people who align with the confederate flag and those ideas, that black people feel as if they're being excluded from the club.

HANNITY: I can only say this, that it was George W. Bush, Kate, who appointed more African-Americans to higher positions of power than any president in history; and there's this phenomenon, Hillary Clinton did this, Al Gore did this, they get before predominantly African-American audiences, their speaking style changes in some instances. I think there's a pattern here that has emerged where Democrats get a pass, they get to be around Robert Byrd, Roger Clinton gets to say that word, but if Republicans said or did these things, I think they'd be in a lot of trouble.

KATE OBENSHAIN, CLAIRE BOOTHE LECE POLICY INSTITUTE: Sean, there are quite a few examples of good, decent, honorable Republicans who have been destroyed by the media, people who would never denigrate someone based the color of their skin, who because of a mistake or something that they just said off-hand have virtually been destroyed.

Now, I'm not sure whether these are mistakes on the Clintons part. You look at -- the Clintons have created their empire by carefully planning and plotting every word they say and every tear they shed. It's hard to imagine that this was just a slip. But I think it's coming as a great surprise to them, the backlash.

COLMES: Bill Clinton as president of the United States created more jobs for African-American youth, for Hispanic youth -- he wasn't called the first black president for nothing. He put his office in Harlem when he was done. Al Gore Sr. was a progressive on civil rights, considered quite progressive at the time. You have to look at it in context of the time.

And Kate Obenshain, as a woman, let me show you the way Hillary Clinton gets treated on the campaign trail. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: Bring about change by --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iron my shirt! Iron my shirt.

H. CLINTON: Could we turn the lights on? It's awfully dark here for everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iron my shirt! Iron my shirt.

H. CLINTON: Oh, the remnants of sexism alive and well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: I know that was a radio stunt, but if that's what you've got to do to do a radio stunt, to denounce her, iron my shirt, you think that's funny -- so the Clintons, if anything --

OBENSHAIN: I don't think that's funny. I think it's stupid.

COLMES: -- gender discrimination, to sexism, certainly the Clintons have been there.

OBENSHAIN: Alan, I'm not really sure what your question is here, because that has -- Iron my shirt has nothing to do with what the Clintons are being --

COLMES: We're talking about the level of discrimination.

OBENSHAIN: Discrimination? It was a ploy. It was -- Conservatives and I certainly would not condone such a ploy.

COLMES: Good to hear that.

OBENSHAIN: Nor do I condone what the Clintons have said and the sort of -- you know what, it's just fascinating to see the shoe on the other foot right now. They're experiencing what Republicans have been experiencing.

COLMES: Let me get Bill Sammon in here. You've got Stephanie Tubbs Jones, African American congresswoman, says it's ridiculous to say these are a series of racist comments coming out of the Clinton camp. Look, I think certain words could have been chosen better, but you've got to look at intent. Do you honestly think that the Clintons are looking to make a racial divide in the Democratic party and use that against Barack Obama?

HANNITY: Yes.

BILL SAMMON, "MEET THE NEXT PRESIDENT": I don't think they are doing that. I do think that Republicans are looking at this with just a delicious sense of irony to watch Democrats savage each other over the race card. I mean, to have the guy who loves to be called the first black president crawling to that great racial arbiter of our times, Reverend Al Sharpton, who gave us --

(CROSS TALK)

SAMMON: -- like he's some kind of Don Imus to go seek absolution from this guy. It's unbelievable what a spectacle this is.

COLMES: I see. Thank you for making it one. But we thank you all for being with us.

SAMMON: I'm just telling you what happened.

COLMES: We'll continue with our guests because coming up a 527 ad is targeting presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, and some are saying it could lead to the end of his run. We'll have that ad for you coming up. First some sound from the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Please vote! Please get out the vote. Please tell your friends. Remember the words of the late Mayor Daily (ph) from Chicago who said vote early and vote often. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Lois Davidson (ph). My daughter was raped and murdered by Wayne Dumond.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carol Sue Shield (ph) was brutally murdered by Wayne Dumond. Dumond was in an Arkansas prison for raping a 17-year-old high school cheerleader until Governor Mike Huckabee helped him get out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: That was an ad by a 527 group targeting presidential candidate Mike Huckabee for freeing convicted rapist Wayne Dumond. Dumond was paroled in 1999, less than a year later was found guilty of murder. The attack is reminiscent of the Willie Horton ad that some say led to Michael Dukakis' defeat in 1988. Like Dumond, Horton was a convicted criminal that Dukakis pushed to have released. Horton also committed murder while out on parole.

Huckabee has fought back against these hits for weeks now. But it seems critics are not satisfied with his explanation. We now continue with our panel. Juan Williams, is Mike Huckabee Mike Dukakis?

WILLIAMS: No way, not close, and I think there was a racial element that obviously we don't have here. So what you're seeing, I think, is an attempt to play on the crime issue, and make him out to be, as we heard last night from Fred Thompson, no Ronald Reagan when it comes to crime, when it comes to taxes, when it comes to illegal immigration. But it invites the idea -- you know, I heard today from some people, saying, Ronald Reagan, Jesus Christ would be a hard-line conservative, would not have compassion. I don't think anybody's going to buy that. But that's the appeal from a desperate campaign.

COLMES: Jean Lions (ph), a reporter for the "Arkansas Democrat Gazette" has been very critical of Mike Huckabee. He says he's got what he's calling a smoking gun. He's got a letter -- a Dear Wayne letter which Huckabee wrote to Wayne Dumond stressing his desire, quote, that you be released from prison. They're calling it the proverbial smoking gun and that he was pushing the parole board to do exactly what they did. Is that difficult, detrimental to the campaign of Mike Huckabee?

OBENSHAIN: It's certainly not great, but it wasn't Mike Huckabee who released this fellow. It was the Parole Board.

COLMES: But he supported it.

OBENSHAIN: Who was appointed by Bill Clinton and Jim Guy Tucker.

COLMES: Get those Democrats in there.

OBENSHAIN: The comparison with the Mike Dukakis thing is rather ridiculous. Actually, Willie Horton was released on a furlough program. He's a first degree murderer. This is a program that Dukakis endorsed. He loved it. He refused to veto it, where they actually let first degree murderers out for a weekend and expected them to waltz back into jail.

COLMES: He wrote a letter urging the release of this guy, wrote a letter to this guy saying that he should hope that he would be released, and you would not give him a pass if his name were Michael Dukakis.

OBENSHAIN: You know what, Alan, I despise parole. I think we should abolish it in 50 states, just like Virginia did in the 1990's. I don't believe that rapists should be paroled. However, Mike Huckabee has been very up front about this. He has explained it. He has said that it was not his decision. It was a parole board's decision.

And he said, if I could turn the clock back, I would. If we had any idea what this man would do, we would turn the clock back. There's a big difference between a first degree murderer --

COLMES: Bill Sammon, Mike Huckabee did urge his release. He wanted his release, and he congratulated the release.

SAMMON: Yes, I've asked Mike Huckabee about this. I've interviewed him about it. I think it's fair ad. I think it's a fair criticism and a question about whether Huckabee is soft on crime, just like I thought the Willie Horton ad was a fair ad against Michael Dukakis. Remember, the furlough program that Dukakis advocated was first brought up by Al Gore and used against him in a Democratic debate. Only later did the Republicans pick it up.

So, I think, It's fair on both sides. And I don't think there's a racial element to it.

HANNITY: I agree, the problem is even bigger, though, for him, because it's a thousand pardons that he gave out, 12 murderers included in this. And, in that sense, you could make 12 separate ads, couldn't you?

SAMMON: I think it's a legitimate -- I watched the entire ad that came out from this 527. I think it's very devastating, but it's also fair. There's nothing in there that's untrue. They quote Huckabee's letter. They show the case. He didn't free the guy, but he advocated his release, and that's damaging politically.

HANNITY: Let me ask you all about -- we're going back a little bit to the race issue we were dealing with in the last segment here. In this case, we have the Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York talking about Hillary's New Hampshire victory, using the phrase, you can't shuck and jive at a press conference. What if a Republican said that, Kate?

OBENSHAIN: They'd be done. They'd be finished, completely out of it. You know, whether this was a slip of the tongue -- maybe he meant to say bob and weave and that would have gone over a lot better. But if it were a slip of the tongue, this is really an example of a Democrat getting bitten by the political correctness system which liberals created.

HANNITY: Juan, let me ask you, when you compare that, also, Shaheen suggesting that drug use of Barack Obama; you have Bob Kerrey, another Hillary supporter, Barack Hussein Obama, the issue of the Madrassa, the investigation into Kindergarten. Do you see a pattern here?

WILLIAMS: I sure do. I don't think there's any question about it. I think this is racially loaded language, and it's explosive. I think that's the difference when we go back to think about the Dukakis/Willie Horton thing; I think race -- let's just be frank with each other here -- that has an additional power in these political campaigns.

When you're talking about Democrats doing it, I think the reason that Jim Clyburn down in South Carolina says that he's thinking of not being neutral anymore is to send a clear message to Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, back off, stop playing the racial games. This is not Sister Solja. This is --

HANNITY: You agree, the Clintons, between Bob Kerrey, between the governor's husband in New Hampshire, between Andrew Cuomo; they're using surrogates to play the race card. Is that a fair statement?

WILLIAMS: I think it's a fair statement. I think Republicans have used the fair card. And I think what we're seeing here is the campaign that felt like they were on the edge of the cliff was deciding if they were going to send some subtle racial messages, and it's time they stop it.

HANNITY: All right, thank you all for being with us. Appreciate it. You all have a great weekend.

Coming up, he's fresh of a great performance at last night's Republican debate, former Senator Fred Thompson takes us inside his strategy for capturing the GOP crown straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: He had a very strong showing yesterday in his debate, but prior to getting on the stage, Senator Fred Thompson and his wife, Jeri, stopped by my radio show. They took questions during an hour-long special that we called "Ask Fred." Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: I think one of the great debate moments in this entire process is when the woman was asking a question, show of hands. You said, "Well, I'm not doing that today."

FRED THOMPSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

HANNITY: And then you said, "Would you like me to answer the question." And you said, "Well, I'm not going to answer it," because in a sense, these are real important consequential issues we're talking about...

F. THOMPSON: Yes.

HANNITY: ... and you can't break it down into a 10-second answer or a yes-or-no answer.

F. THOMPSON: Yes. These are, with no due respect to everybody concerned, these are exchanges of sound bites, for the most part. There is no forum in this entire process for a sit-down discussion, a Lincoln- Douglas type thing, where you sit down and discuss and go back and forth and probe the details of an issue and the level of a person's thinking. And that's -- that's unfortunate.

But out in Iowa, you know, there's more symbolism there, I guess, than meets the eye. There comes a point when a person's got to decide whether or not there should be some things beneath the dignity of even a presidential candidate. And you know, it cuts you to a minute. It cuts you to 30 seconds, and then even that's too long.

They say, "We're going to throw some things at you," you know, the future of civilization, you know, and a show of hands.

And I said, "I ain't doing it."

And they were like, "What? What do you mean? You can't not do that."

I said, "I'm not doing that." I said, "Will you give me a minute to answer that.

HANNITY: It's an important issue.

F. THOMPSON: "It's an important issue."

"Oh, no, I can't do that."

And I said, "Well, then I'm not answering that." And you know, when I did that, the other guys took their hands down. You know? They lined up - - they lined up with me, and nobody has asked anybody to raise their hands since.

HANNITY: Yes. All right. We start in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

CALLER: How do you plan on recapturing the popularity from the -- and the focus from the media and the public that you had when you first announced that you were running?

F. THOMPSON: Well, I appreciate that question. That's a legitimate question. I think, first of all, with regard to the last knew days, all the attention has been in New Hampshire, and I wasn't really competing in New Hampshire. So that was pretty much of an afterthought there, except for those debates.

And even the debate questions were oriented toward those guys who were competing the strongest in New Hampshire in terms of time and that sort of thing is concerned.

Going back a little bit, you know, we kind of went from zero to a good third-place finish in Iowa. I was looking at all the experts a couple of nights before in Iowa, and the only one that I saw -- I mean, the only program that I saw had several experts all giving their opinion as to who was going to come in third. And of course half of them got it wrong as to who would be first and second anyway, but they all picked John McCain.

And then, of course, when that didn't work out that way and I beat John by a bit, you know, it was kind of an afterthought.

So everybody thinks, I guess, they get unfair treatment. We all go through a process, I think, that builds you up to take you down and that sort of thing. But a lot of people have had to go through this process.

Rudy was the inevitable one, you know, and now he's kind of an afterthought, in some respects, and struggling to make his case for a later strategy. You know, Mitt was going to take the first two primaries, the primary and caucus, and of course, he didn't. And he's lost out a little bit, you know.

McCain was given up for dead. Now he's the comeback kid, you know. You know, it's a different story every day. You've got to maintain yourself and your integrity through a process like this.

I ran because of what I believe and my concern about the future of the country and the kind of world my kids and grandkids are going to grow up in.

I have been a strong, consistent conservative all my career. I've stood strong for those positions. I feel like I have some integrity in the eyes of the American people. And I speak directly and truthfully, even sometimes when the truth is not to be very well-received in terms of having to do things about our entitlement programs which are bankrupting our nation and need to be reformed.

And, you know, if you're bobbing and weaving and trying to change your strategy all the time and your message all the time, and even your positions all the time, like so many of these guys have, you lose yourself.

And that's no way to become president. I mean, you've got to be who you are and what you are and have faith in the American people. I still feel that that not only is the right thing to do, but is the best strategy.

HANNITY: So another question for Jeri Thompson on "The Sean Hannity Show." Brad, how are you?

CALLER: Sean, you're a righteous American, brother.

HANNITY: Thank you, my friend. Welcome aboard.

CALLER: Thank you. Senator Thompson, I think you're a stud and a true gentleman. And my question is actually for your wife, Mrs. Thompson.

JERI THOMPSON, WIFE OF FRED THOMPSON: Yes, sir.

CALLER: Yes, ma'am. I was just curious if the senator is as calm and reserved as I see him on TV at the home front, the house.

J. THOMPSON: Yes. He actually is. He's actually very introverted. I think some folks think that a lot of politicians are kind of slap you on the back kind of guys. Fred really isn't.

In fact, he fights most time to try to get away so he can have some time to think and to read. And he's very calm. He's very deliberative. He wears no man's collar, and sometimes that irritates some folks in the media. And he wanted to do this his way, because he thought it was the right way. And what you see is what you get, and he's an amazing man, and I love him.

HANNITY: Wow, I think -- we better stop right there.

F. THOMPSON: And we quit? Can we quit right there?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLMES: There you go. Good place to stop.

We check in now with Greta Van Susteren, telling us what's coming up right after "Hannity & Colmes."

Good evening, Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "ON THE RECORD": Good evening, Alan.

We're learning that there's breaking news out of Jacksonville, North Carolina, in the missing pregnant Marine case. There have been some burned remains found. We have all the details.

Plus, O.J. Simpson right now is probably walking into jail in Vegas. We'll have all the latest on that, as well. He's probably not going home tonight.

Back to you, Alan.

COLMES: All right. Thank you very much, Greta.

Coming up next, Bill Richardson breaks his silence about his former Democratic rivals and what his plans are, now that he is no longer running.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama took to -- look to be the front-runners for the Democratic nomination, but there's still some major contests to be won.

Our next guest has bowed out of the race but has yet to throw his support behind either of the junior senators as they approach Super Tuesday.

With us now, the former presidential candidate, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson.

How do you like that word "former" before the words "presidential candidate"?

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D-NM), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, that's fine. I'm getting ready for my legislature in New Mexico. I'm going to be riding my horse more. I'm going to do my international missions. But I kind of miss the good old days of 20 day -- 20 hours a day.

COLMES: What about throwing your support to either Obama or Hillary? Is that going to happen at some point, and which way are you leaning?

RICHARDSON: Well, probably at some point. Right now I'm not leaning towards anybody. I'm decompressing. I've talked to both camps. I've talked to President Clinton. Very good conversations.

But I'm not going to try to get involved before the February 5 primaries, including my state of New Mexico and Nevada. I was hoping to be heading into those primaries myself, but you know, I ran out of funds, and so I'm just going to stay loose.

I want both candidates to contest for the Hispanic vote, the western vote, unfettered without an endorsement from me. And plus, I don't think endorsements by politicians mean that much.

COLMES: Well, yours might.

How do you assess the field as you look at the candidates? John Edwards is still someone you can't totally count out. As you look at the candidates who have a chance of winning the nomination, how do you assess them?

RICHARDSON: It's -- right now, I would say Clinton, Obama dead even, especially in the west. I'd say John Edwards, you can never count him out either because of the heavy union representation in Nevada, even though they've endorsed Senator Obama.

You know, when you have 20 states on February 5, you can't discount anything happening. Again, it's very volatile, I would say Clinton, Obama are competing right now for the Hispanic vote, for the union vote that are key in all of those states.

But in Nevada, you know, I campaigned there extensively. My people are going both ways. And I have said to all my supporters, "Don't just go with one candidate. Go, play the field. Do what you think is best." I'm trying very hard not to influence anything.

COLMES: Between Clinton and Obama which one do you think is more sympathetic to the union vote or to the Hispanic vote?

RICHARDSON: Alan, I know you're trying to pin me down. Look, they're both great -- they're both real good candidates. I've had recent good conversations with them. You know, I wish I'd felt the same way while we were all running against each other.

I still like them then, and right now I'm decompressing. I'm trying to get my -- my life together here in New Mexico as a governor. I've got a legislative session coming up. So I'll just wait a little bit, Alan.

But, you know, you guys have been good to me. Maybe I'll tell you what I'm going to do when I...

COLMES: When you're ready to announce, this is the perfect venue for you.

What have you learned as a politician this time around being on the campaign trail?

RICHARDSON: What I've learned is, first, that this is a great country, that voters are a lot smarter than a lot of the pundits give them credit for.

Secondly, that what we need is public financing in these races. You know, I can't compete with candidates that can raise ten times the amount that I can.

Third, we've got to get a hold of this primary schedule, and that means having a more effective system of primaries, where states don't try to get in front of each other.

I feel good, Alan, because I think I moved the Democratic candidates towards my position: getting the troops out of Iraq, finding strong greenhouse gas emissions targets, education.

HANNITY: Governor -- hi, Governor. Sean Hannity.

RICHARDSON: Go ahead.

HANNITY: You mean, you didn't get my donation? What happened? That would have put you over the top.

Look, by the way, you've been very generous with your time, and some of your colleagues have not, and I applaud you for that, Governor. The willingness to answer questions, even from somebody like me that you know we're going to have some disagreements with.

Let me ask you. If either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton get the nomination and they make a phone call to you, and they say, "Governor Richardson, we need you. Will you be my vice-president," would you do it?

RICHARDSON: Well, I -- you know, I just don't want to speculate, because I love doing what I'm doing.

You came here, Sean, to New Mexico. You know how lovely it is. You know how much I love my state and my people and my issues.

HANNITY: I know, but...

RICHARDSON: I don't have to go back to Washington.

HANNITY: I know, but...

RICHARDSON: I don't have to go back.

HANNITY: But that would -- but that's a hard call. If the person that wants you to run with them, if either one of those people called you, would you say yes?

RICHARDSON: Well, I don't know what I'd say. I'm very happy where -- I'm not seeking anything. I -- you know, I just got out of the race. I'm trying to get my -- I'm trying to decompress.

HANNITY: All right.

RICHARDSON: I don't know what I'd say.

HANNITY: All right. Well, let me ask you this. Because you do have -- we have our disagreements. You mentioned a couple. The war in Iraq. I think global warming is hype and hysteria, and there's a lot of misinformation out there.

But we agree on tax cuts. You're a Democratic tax-cutting governor in your state, and it's had a dramatic impact, positive impact, on the economy.

When the presidential candidates on the Democratic side rejected the Democratic Leadership Conference and went to the Daily Kos convention, is that a sign that the Democratic Party's going too hard to the left, in your view?

RICHARDSON: Well, there's no question the bloggers and the Daily Kos people have a lot of influence. I'm not...

HANNITY: Too much?

RICHARDSON: ... denying that. Well, no, I'm not sure. I think it's good, because there's so many of them. They're so active. They're new, energized voters. No, I think it's healthy.

I do -- I am concerned that the DLC has taken some hits. There's no question about it. I wish I'd have attended their convention. I couldn't. It was a real scheduling problem. But if I really had wanted to, I would have done it.

HANNITY: Yes.

RICHARDSON: They're a valid group in the party. They're moderates. You're right. We need to have no litmus test in our party.

HANNITY: I will say this, and I want you -- I want -- I can now tell this story. I met you at -- you were gracious enough to come to a book signing that I had in New Mexico. And I asked you a question, if you were going to run for president, and you asked me to keep it just between us, and for the record I did. You told me then that you probably would.

Do you remember that conversation?

RICHARDSON: Yes, I remember. You -- you were mobbed there in Albuquerque at that bookstore. I think it was Borders. Your book was selling off the hook.

HANNITY: Well, Governor, look, we appreciate having you on.

One last question. Hillary Clinton, can she win with 50 percent unfavorable rating if she got the nomination?

RICHARDSON: Yes, I believe so. I just think, Sean, the trends are Democratic. The country wants a change. Yes, I think she can.

HANNITY: All right, Governor, always good to see you. Best of luck to you. I know we'll be talking in the weeks and months to come.

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