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January 01, 2008

Huckabee On "Hannity & Colmes"

Hannity & Colmes

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome to HANNITY AND COLMES. We get right to our top story tonight. We are less than 48 hours out of the Iowa caucus and all eyes are on the candidates. Every move is being scrutinized. Mike Huckabee, well, he has had much of the attention focused his way, from his war of words with Mitt Romney to yesterday's cancellation of an attack ad.

Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee joins us from Iowa tonight. Well, there is some good news, governor, and that is that you're up by six points, according to the Register.

HUCKABEE: It's a great headline to wake up to this morning, a six- point lead in the "Des Moines Register" poll, maybe the last big poll to come out before the caucus. And we were very encouraged by it. I think it's proving that staying positive is the right thing, and, most of all, our message is getting out there to Iowa caucus voters. A lot of the people I saw today, Sean, said they're first-time caucus-goers. This is their first time. Some of them are in their 50's and 60's. They're going out to caucus for me. That's exactly what we want to hear as we enter these last hours.

HANNITY: Let's go to the controversy of the hour, which is this ad, this news conference that you had, where you ran this ad, and then you said, but I'm not going to run the ad. And there were even snickers among the press. Let's roll the ad to remind our audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Romney's record, over 700 million in new taxes, left office with a deficit, no executions, supported gun control, and Romney's government mandated health plan provided a 50 dollar copay for abortion.

HUCKABEE: If a man's dishonest to obtain a job, he'll be dishonest on the job. Iowans deserve better.

(END VIDEO CLIP

HANNITY: Governor, you know what they're saying, that you had the benefit of running an attack ad, but seemingly seeming like you're taking the high road by saying, I'm not going to run the ad, and then you ran it.

HUCKABEE: Well, we didn't run the ad, Sean. We pulled it. I knew that if we said we had made one and didn't reveal that it existed, there would have been this cynicism of the reporters that said oh, you really didn't have one. But we did. And I don't know how you obtained that copy because we didn't give it to anybody.

We had a box of CDs of them. We gave them to no one. We showed it in that room for those reporters, and the only way they could have gotten it would have be to tape it off a camera from the screen. But the fact is we pulled it. It was my decision. It was the right decision. I understand people are going to be cynical. But you know what? At the end of the day, what matters is the decision that we made to stay positive and not to go nuclear, not to engage in the same level of politics that has been relentlessly used against us and used against John McCain in New Hampshire.

We just need to change the course of the discussion.

HANNITY: But it's a fair question. If you really felt that way about it, why would you run the ad while you're saying you're pulling the ad?

HUCKABEE: Well, for the reason that I said just a moment ago, because if we didn't show the ad to the reporters, I think we thought, well they would have said we didn't have one. So we didn't give them a copy of a big thick folder of material that we had --

HANNITY: But you played it.

HUCKABEE: We played it only for the room of those people. We did not give them the copies that we had. But Sean, more importantly is the fact that I think people have given me the position that I'm in in Iowa because it has been a positive campaign. No doubt that a lot of the negative attacks -- mailboxes have been full, phone calls every night, people have been inundated with television commercials. It's been very nasty, very negative. Not just with me; John McCain in New Hampshire is getting the same thing.

We decided that, you know, if you talk about Ronald Reagan's legacy and his whole understanding of the leadership of the Republican party -- you can't be Reaganesque if you violate the 11th commandment of Ronald Reagan.

HANNITY: You say about Governor Romney in this ad -- these are very hard words -- and you said about him, if a man's this dishonest to obtain the job, he'll be dishonest on the job. Governor Romney responded. Let's roll that tape and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think Governor Huckabee was able to fool the media with his press conference. I don't think he'll fool the people of Iowa. It's a little like going up and saying, I'm not going to call my opponent any names. But if I were going to call him some names, here are the names I would call him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Do you really believe he's dishonest?

HUCKABEE: If you tell things about somebody that aren't true, if you tell people that I cut Meth sentences when I didn't, if you tell them that I spent money and created this huge budget, which I did not -- and the "New York Times" verified that those figures were wrong -- if you tell people things that even may have a sense of half truth but aren't the whole truth, they become the untruth.

The question I had was, do I counter-attack. I finally decided, I can't fix in 30 seconds the damage that was done to a 10 1/2 year record I had as the longest consistent executive running a government in this presidential race.

But here's what I think people are looking. They're for somebody who has consistency. And I had to ask this question, do I want someone to elect me because I've done a better job of disabling my opponent than he has done of disabling me? And I finally decided that's not what people are looking for.

COLMES: It's Alan Colmes, welcome back to our show. Is Mitt Romney too dishonest to be president of the United States?

HUCKABEE: I think that Mitt Romney has every reason to run for president. The voters are going to decide in Iowa and the rest of America who's consistent on issues like abortion and gun control, which one of us - -

COLMES: I want to know if you stand by the word -- do you stand by the --

HUCKABEE: I never retracted the words, but I pulled the ad because I felt like it is the tone and the spirit of the ad -- that's not what we need. And I just want to believe that Americans really are looking for a different kind of approach.

COLMES: The point is, governor, you do stand by what that ad says, you're not disavowing that statement?

HUCKABEE: Alan, I made it very clear that when you say things about an opponent's record that aren't true or say things about your own record which aren't true, I don't know else how you call that but dishonest. If I make up things about my own resume, if I say I have endorsements that I don't have, the question is, do people want a president who has not been completely straight forward about endorsements, about positions, about events that have happened in his or her life? Those are serious questions that voters have to ask.

COLMES: Are you going negative now by saying the very things you're say now about Romney?

HUCKABEE: No, I'm not going out there specific. You asked me a question. I'm trying to answer it, and I don't know how to answer it without being specific. So I'm trying to do that, but within the context of not simply going out there and making a bunch of statements that I think would be unnecessary and perhaps harsh. Let me get this ear piece working again.

COLMES: Can you hear me OK?

HUCKABEE: I hear you fine. Maybe I should pull it out.

COLMES: If you get the nomination, Mitt Romney would not be your running mate?

HUCKABEE: I'm going to support the nominee of our party. I'm certainly not at a point where I get to pick the running mate yet. You know what I do think? I think I'm going to be in a position to pick a running mate. I think the people of Iowa are responding to not just this one decision; I think they're responding to all the decisions that I've made in my life and career, of having consistency when it comes to being pro-life, being a portion who has cut taxes, a person who has run a government, fixed roads, improved education, things that matter to people sitting around their dinner table talking and trying to figure out how they're going to get through next week and build small businesses and the middle class.

We've got a lot of people in this country who feel like the Republican party has forgotten them, people who are in the middle class, small business owners, from which 80 percent of our jobs come. My strength in this campaign is not just coming from evangelicals, although certainly they're with me. I think it's coming from a lot of small business owners. It's coming from middle class people and working class people who want the Republican party to reach out to them.

COLMES: We're going to pick it up right there in just a moment with Mike Huckabee on the other side of this break. And then as the candidates make their last-minute push, new polls show both races are still too close to call. Dick Morris will be here with reaction coming up on HANNITY AND COLMES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: We continue with Mike Huckabee. We're talking strategy here. Governor, are you making a strategic error leaving Iowa to go to Hollywood and do Jay Leno in the middle of the caucus?

HUCKABEE: No, not at tall. In Fact, I'm going to be campaigning in Iowa from 5:30 in the morning for our first event, until about 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon. I make a quick trip to California. I fly right back, and will be back late tomorrow night. I'll be up early Thursday.

My main goal right now in these next 48 hours is to talk to as many people in Iowa as I can. And, quite frankly, I'll be speaking to a lot of them in person, and I have a feeling I'll be talking to a lot of them on "The Tonight Show." I'm not missing any events. I'm just getting a chance to talk to them.

COLMES: You accused by your detractors of being too much on my side. They say you are too liberal. Are there areas where you think you are liberal?

HUCKABEE: Not liberal. I think I'm a person who understands that Republicans ought to be talking about the environment. We ought to be talking about hunger and disease and poverty. That doesn't make me liberal, it makes me an American. It makes me an American concerned about those folks out there who are often forgotten. Our Republican party needs to be sure that every position we have on our platform empowers, emboldens, and gives everybody in this country a chance to reach the American dream.

I didn't start out rich. I started out a kid with a father who never graduated high school, a mother who came from dirt floors and outdoor toilets. You know what, I'm excited the fact that a kid like me could run for president. I represent a lot of people out there in America who want to believe that American dream is alive for them.

COLMES: Mitt Romney says he's disappointed that you attacked the president by suggesting that he was not well-versed enough in foreign policy. He said it's not a time to be mocking our president. It was in bad taste. We should come together and recognize the great work that President Bush has done. Is that a fair evaluation of your position on President Bush? And can that hurt you with Republicans?

HUCKABEE: It's ridiculous. I never said that. In fact, I was the one who supported the Bush tax cuts in '02 when Mitt Romney didn't. I was the one who supported Ronald Reagan and his father George Bush when Mitt Romney was on national television saying that I'm not part of that Bush/Reagan thing; I'm an independent. I never supported Paul Tsongas for president.

And Mitt Romney was the one who earlier this year on "60 Minutes" made the statement that the president had left the war in a mess. I'm not running for Bush's third term. I love the president. I've been with him on the war. I've been with him on the surge when Mitt Romney wasn't. So it's absurd to say that I'm against the president. I think I've probably been one of his staunchest defenders.

At the same time, if I think there are areas with which I disagree, then I express that. As far as this allegation of mocking him, that's nonsense. I haven't mocked the president. I have great respect for him and have known him a long time. I was a co-governor with him, and campaigned all over America for him in about 35 states. So if I didn't like him, I wouldn't have worked that hard for him to be president.

COLMES: Given what you just said about supporting the president, will you continue the Bush Iraq war policy if you're president of the United States?

HUCKABEE: I'm going to make sure we win in Iraq. I believe --

COLMES: What does that mean?

HUCKABEE: -- we have to do in order, not only for the perseverance of our nation, but the perseverance in the Middle East. It means that the Iraqis can self-govern. It means that our military can come home with victory and with honor. Nothing less than that is acceptable.

I think in the future, if we engage in conflicts like this, we will go in with an attitude that we will do whatever the generals give us indication is necessary to win early. He told us we needed 400,000 troops. We only went in with 180,000. Now we're going in with a surge, and it's working and it's working masterfully, and a lot of credit goes to I think not only General Petraeus, but Secretary Gates, who has given us good leadership at the Defense Department.

HANNITY: Governor, I mentioned earlier that you're up in the "Des Moines Register" poll by six points right now. How important is it for you to win Iowa at this point?

HUCKABEE: If we win, it's a seismic moment on the political Richter Scale.

HANNITY: Is that the Huck-a-boom?

HUCKABEE: I really would be, Sean. I guess it would be, Sean. The fact is, we've been outspent 20 to one here. Think about that. If we win -- nothing like that's happened in American politics that anyone can remember. I think as long as we can come in in one of the first or second positions, we're still on our feet. But if we come in first and win this thing, it proves that money can't buy elections anymore, and that message matters more than money.

HANNITY: You have been under fire -- as we've been watching the rise in the polls, the scrutiny has increased dramatically. "Time Magazine" has a piece out, Huckabee's growing pains. But everything you say now comes under greater scrutiny. When you used the term the president's arrogant bunker mentality, when you talked about things about immigration in your book -- that has come under scrutiny -- the tax ad that came out against you.

I thought it was really pushing things to say -- it was clear what you meant when you said apologies to the Pakistani people. It was clear in my mind you meant sympathy.

HUCKABEE: I said sympathy as soon as I said the other word. It was one of those slips of the tongue.

HANNITY: I'm a talk show host, I understand that very well, believe me. Do you think some of this is unfair? Do you think this is people just afraid of the growing popularity you now have?

HUCKABEE: You know, all is fair in love and war. Do I like it? No, but this is politics. This is a big boy game. If you can't handle the fastballs, don't step up to the plate. I haven't seen anything thrown at me that I hadn't seen before. Arkansas is a wonderful preparation ground, because I want to tell you, being a Republican in a state where 90 percent of the elected officials were Democrat, I promise you I faced heat before.

All the things that are being thrown at me, they've been throw before. It's pure politics. It's the way it works. The reason that I'm weathering it is because this isn't my first rodeo.

HANNITY: Does it bother you at all? Do you get upset? Are you getting tired at this point? Are you glad that the first quarter is about to begin?

HUCKABEE: Nobody likes to have his record just put out there in dishonest ways. Nobody likes to be attacked. Nobody likes every word to be taken out of context and then somebody jump on it. But on the other hand, if you want to be the leader of the free world, you've got to be able to face a lot of pressure and intensity of opposition. If you're going to be president, you know that on any given day maybe half or more than half of the country is mad at you. That's what being a governor helps you understand.

I was a governor 10 and a half years. I said, every day I've got to make ten new friends, because I made seven people mad at me for something I did or said. That's part of the way it works. I put it this way -- I say it in my book that if you can't stand the sight of your own blood, buy a ticket and watch this from the stands, because you're going to come out of this game with some wounds and some scars.

HANNITY: Same thing for talk show hosts, except we're not in the same power game. Just Google Colmes or Hannity, and it's not often pretty.

COLMES: Better yet, don't do that.

HANNITY: We'll see you in Iowa. We're getting on a plane. We'll see you in Iowa tomorrow. Thank you for being with us, and all the best, good luck to you up there.

HUCKABEE: Make sure that Alan sits on the left side of the airplane. Don't let him sit on the right.

COLMES: He gets all the peanuts.

HANNITY: Coming up, new polls show that the Iowa front runners, Mike Huckabee and Barack Obama, have competition hot on their heels. So will the duo prevail in Iowa? Dick Morris coming up next with analysis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: The Iowa caucus is rapidly approaching and two new polls out of the Hawkeye State show some races tightening. On the Republican side, Mike Huckabee continues to lead the pack with 32 percent of the vote. Mitt Romney is lurking with 26 percent. And John McCain still dwindling at about 13 percent.

And things are getting quite interesting for the Democrats. Barack Obama maintains his lead at 32 percent. Hillary Clinton currently at 25 percent, with a surging John Edwards up to 24 percent of the vote. Joining us now, former Clinton adviser Dick Morris.

By the keep up to date on the presidential race. You can subscribe for free to Dick's columns and news letters at DickMorris.com. Is it possible Hillary comes in third in Iowa?

DICK MORRIS, FORMER CLINTON ADVISER: Yes, I think that's really possible, Sean. I think that Edwards is moving up. And the thing to remember is that two-thirds -- or three-quarters I think it is -- of Edwards' supporters have been to caucuses before. Most of them voted in the 2004 caucuses. And those caucuses are complex and somewhat daunting. And therefore he's got a big advantage there, because he's got his people much more likely to come out, whereas only half of Hillary's have been.

HANNITY: We just had Governor Huckabee on, Dick. And he's now under fire in the final moments of this campaign. And history is going to judge this as a brilliant move or one that perhaps lost him the caucus here, and that is that he holds this press conference. He shows the ad that he says he's not going to run because he doesn't want to go negative. Do you think there's a chance of a back-lack or does this help him?

MORRIS: Well, I think it was a stupid move. If you're going to have a negative ad, have it. If you're not going to have it, don't. It's like being a little bit pregnant. But I think the news media is missing the basic point, which is that he accuses Romney in that advertisement of supporting taxpayer funded abortions when Romney passed that whole health care proposal in Massachusetts. He said a 50 dollar copay you can have an elective abortion. And I think that's going to drive the right wing crazy. That's a brand new thing and I think that's going to drive the right wing berserk. It's one thing to have been pro-choice. It's another to have tax-payer funding.

HANNITY: Is it old news, in as much as he has discussed at length that he changed his position on abortion? I mean, how many different ways does one have to explain it? Or do you think this is one of these issues that just resonates so much in a primary that he's not going to be able to overcome it?

MORRIS: I think this takes it to the next level. In other words, you have about 30 or 40 senators that are pro-life, that want to repeal Roe v Wade. But you have 70 that feel taxpayer money should not be used to fund abortions. Medicaid money nationally cannot be used to pay for abortions. If any state covers it on Medicaid, they have to pick up the whole tab.

So this position is sort of the ultimate left wing position on abortion. And I think the national media is missing the point. This is the 500 point gorilla in this race.

COLMES: Dick, welcome to the show. You worked with Mike Huckabee. You know him a little bit. Getting back to the news conference, as Sean was talking about, was he being sly, knowing full well everybody's going to see the ad, I'm not going to have to pay for it? Or did he sincerely believe you know what, all of the sudden I don't want to have to show a negative ad?

MORRIS: You know, it was probably the later, but it sure looks like the former. Queen Victoria once sent a guy to negotiate with the Egyptians over the canal, and they said, he's too honest. He's too naive. And she said he's the only one I can send. He's so honest the rogues will think I'm a rogue, and he's so truthful they will swear he's lying.

COLMES: We're to believe he took a day off, spent 30,000 dollars making ads, and then at the last minute decides I'm not going to run them. But I'm going to hold a news conference and show them?

MORRIS: Yes. Look, I think it was ridiculous, and I think that it's -- but, again, I think that that's a minor footnote. The important thing here is what that ad says.

Let's put this in perspective. Hillary can afford to lose on Tuesday. She can even afford to come in third. But what she can't afford is for someone else to really have a decisive win. And if Obama wins this race by seven or eight points, and clearly establishes himself as her opponent, then I think Obama wins New Hampshire, I think Obama may win South Carolina, may win Nevada. She'll win Michigan because she's alone on the ballot. But it means that Obama will then have the momentum to take her on in Florida and Super Tuesday.

COLMES: But she could still win Iowa. And, in fact, Edwards could even win Iowa. What is that scenario going to be like if that happens?

MORRIS: Well, the problem with Edwards for Obama is he's got to establish himself as the opponent of Hillary, because he can't perpetually divide the anti-Hillary vote. So he needs for Edwards to finish down in the pack. Who knows if that's going to happen.

The other interesting thing is to watch McCain, because if McCain finishes ahead of Giuliani, I think -- and Romney loses Iowa, then I think McCain can win New Hampshire, which basically hurts Romney badly and hurts Rudy Giuliani badly. There's an identity of interest between Huckabee and McCain that's kind of interesting. They both want to get rid of Romney.

COLMES: I want to talk about McCain for a second. Is this a case of people seeing who the Republican wannabes are and then coming home to a well-known, more established candidate in John McCain, because they don't like who they're seeing, in terms of the newer faces?

MORRIS: No, I don't think it's that at all. I think what it is is advertising. He has ads running that absolutely reduce you to tears, like the Christmas ad where he talks about his captors drawing a cross in the ground, and to indicate his secret identity with the Christianity of McCain. There's a level of emotional communication. The guy who's doing his ads used to work with me, and he's very good. And I think those ads are breaking through. And it's going to be a tough fight for Rudy.

COLMES: Thank you very much. Thanks so much for being with us. Coming up, Rudy Giuliani is the one candidate not campaigning in Iowa in the last days before the caucus. Will the strategy help or hurt the former mayor? That reaction is coming up next on HANNITY AND COLMES.

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