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January 25, 2008

Giuliani on "Hannity & Colmes"

Hannity & Colmes

COLMES: Welcome to HANNITY AND COLMES. We get right to our top story tonight, the big news on the campaign trail involved the Democrats and Tony Rezko, who has been indicted on federal corruption charges. On Monday night, Senator Clinton slammed Senator Obama for his past association with Rezko.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I was fighting against those ideas when you were practicing law and representing your contributor, Rezko, in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago.

OBAMA: No, no, no, no, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Earlier today, this updated photograph surfaced showing Senator Clinton and then President Clinton posing with Rezko.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Sorry.

COLMES: Excuse me. May I get through the reading? Can we talk about it in just a moment? The campaign insists that neither Clinton ever accepted money from Rezko and that they take thousands of photographs with people. Is that the whole story?

Joining us now is former Clinton advisor Dick Morris. For his latest columns and newsletter, you can sign up for free at DickMorris.com. Dick, do you know how many pictures -- you obviously do, you've been around presidents. They take pictures all the time with people. They looked at the official records. There were no donations to either Clinton campaign ever by this guy. You don't know everybody you ever had a photograph with, right?

DICK MORRIS, DICKMORRIS.COM: She deserves the chutzpah. For the benefit of your Christian viewers, that means gall for that accusation. Here is a woman who spent 10 years representing a fraudulent savings and loan association, and then lied to a Grand Jury about it and narrowly escaped indictment for perjury, and has financed her campaign with over 800,000 dollars from Norman Hsu, who is currently in jail for swindling the money out of a variety of people.

The reason she wasn't indicted -- I'm so happy you asked me that question -- is that she was asked, did you ever do work for Castle Grande? She said no. In fact, she did work for the same project under the name the Arkansas Development Authority. She claimed that she didn't know that they were synonyms, which is nonsense. I knew they were synonyms in the mid 1980s when I worked for them. That's how she escaped indictment for perjury.

COLMES: If she lied under oath, as you said, why wouldn't she have been indicted? You are claiming she lied under oath. You are saying she broke the law.

MORRIS: Because the special prosecutor's report on two occasions -- that's one and Travel Gate was the other -- wrote that they couldn't indict her because they couldn't prove that she knew they were synonyms. And on the Travel Gate, she said -- they said, did you order the firings and she said no. They proved that she did order the firings, but she claimed she didn't know that her order would be obeyed. And, therefore, they couldn't indict her.

COLMES: I don't understand that.

MORRIS: For somebody like that, with that kind of practice, who then hid the billing records for a year and a half, to criticize poor Barack Obama for his legal representation and his contributions absolutely leaves you stunned.

COLMES: By the way, Dick, for years -- during the Clinton years, I kept hearing conservatives say rule of law, rule of law about Bill Clinton. You just said some things about Hillary Clinton that apparently did not rise to the level of indictment by the law. So it seems like the rule of law, that phrase, only applies to conservatives when they want to go against Clinton, when they actually think they can get him on something.

MORRIS: They rose to the level. Both Clintons have gotten away with a lot of perjury. They rose to the level but they couldn't make a provable air tight case.

COLMES: That's the way the law works.

MORRIS: I know. But there is a whole big difference between innocence and not guilty. Hillary lives in that space.

COLMES: The law has not decided that. But let's get back to the issue at hand here. There is no evidence -- first of all, investigations show no money was ever given by Rezko to either Clinton. And it is true that presidents pose with lots of people and you don't know everybody you pose with. This was a fund raiser for Carol Mosely Brahn, this picture we're looking at right now. He gave to her, but not to the Clintons?

MORRIS: Alan, I want to talk about what I think is fundamentally going on here. You are supposed to be the liberal on the show, so you will like half of what I'm saying and disagree with half of it. The Clintons are setting up Obama by deliberately merchandising the race issue. The way they are doing it is that Bill is going into South Carolina and campaigning hard for the black vote, door to door in the black community. He knows he is not going to win the black vote.

He knows Hillary is going to lose South Carolina to Obama. That's why Hillary isn't campaigning there herself. And the reason that he is there is that he wants to draw attention to the fact that the blacks are voting for Obama, so that the racial backlash causes the whites to vote for Hillary and she wins Florida on Super Tuesday. By making this the black primary, like Washington, D.C., she encourages racial polarization.

HANNITY: Dick, you are basically saying that as a strategy they are playing the race card?

MORRIS: True.

HANNITY: There's no other way to describe it.

MORRIS: Precisely. The way they are doing it is by getting the blacks to block vote publicly and openly for Obama, that then triggers a white backlash.

HANNITY: When you consider the state of race relations in this country and you consider that as a tactic, does it get any lower than that.

MORRIS: It doesn't get any lower. Particularly not when this guy Obama, who I think would make a much better president than Hillary --

HANNITY: Yes.

MORRIS: -- has done everything he could not to play the race card. It's not a Rainbow Coalition. He is not playing the victimization role. He is rising above race and they are dragging him back down into it.

HANNITY: He is not going to win, is he?

MORRIS: I don't think so. I think their racism will succeed.

HANNITY: I think you are right. What did you make when Bill Clinton suggested that blacks in South Carolina will be voting for Barack Obama because is he black. I just imagine if a Republican had made a similar statement that there would be a backlash. He seems to be getting a pass on every one of these statements and the tactics that are being used. Why do they get a pass?

MORRIS: The other thing that he is doing, Sean, is that he is being a lightning rod for Hillary. Everybody is talking about Bill and nobody is talking about Hillary. So his job now is to go out and attract all the negative coverage he can get, so there is no space left over to attack her. Precisely like we are doing on this show right now.

HANNITY: Well, it's interesting you say that, because I have a copy the "New York Times" in front of me; "Clinton's campaign sees value in keeping former president in the attack mode." But you have gotten all the Democrats now are lining up, even John Kerry and Pat Leahy and James Clyburn and a lot of others now, are basically saying the Clintons are deceitful and taking cheap shots.

Now, I stand back, as somebody who has studied the Clintons for all these years, these are the same people that defended the smearing and besmirching and attacking of any Clinton critic in years past. Now all of a sudden, as long as the tactics are used against Republicans it's acceptable, but when they use it against fellow Democrats, boy, those Clintons have really crossed the line. I find the whole darn thing amusing.

MORRIS: But I do feel that Obama is getting a very raw deal from the Clintons. I think that they are making this election about race. And, incidentally, I particularly want to comment on Charlie Rangel and David Dinkens (ph), black politicians in New York who are endorsing Hillary Clinton. That is as rank opportunistic as you can get.

HANNITY: Well, Charlie Rangel made some controversial remarks down in South Carolina. We'll get to that. More with Dick Morris coming up right after the break.

Plus, Rudy Giuliani's Florida gamble, will it pay off with a win for the former New York City mayor? He will be here. He will join us. That's all coming up straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: We are back with former Clinton advisor -- Dick Morris is with us. All right, so John Kerry's words about Bill Clinton were the following, Dick; it's that Bill Clinton is abusing the truth. James Clyburn says, you are hurting the Democrats chances in the general election.

On the other hand, you have got Hillary saying, Bill went too far with the Barack Obama attacks, and then "the New York Times" reports Clinton advocates suggesting that this is a good strategy here. So I guess it's -- we can only conclude that this is an orchestrated attack and a strategy, no?

MORRIS: Sure it is. Let me just explain it. First I told you the first theory, which is that he becomes the lightning rod. At the '92 Republican National Convention, our strategy was to put Hillary out there and have Bush attack Hillary. And speaker after speaker did. Nobody mentioned Bill. At the end of the convention I called him and I said, we fooled them. They attacked the cape instead of the matador.

Now the Clintons are playing it the other way, attack Bill instead of Hillary. Secondly, he knows that by making outrageous comments, he dominates the media. Neither Hillary nor Obama can get a word in edgewise, which is fine with him, because she is sitting on 20 point lead in Florida and she doesn't need to make news. If he can wipe out the news coverage by monopolizing, so much the better.

And thirdly, what he is trying to do is attract attention to the black vote in South Carolina in the hopes of triggering a white backlash against the block black vote. For example, I don't care that Romney is a Mormon. But when I hear that 95 percent of the Mormons in Nevada voted for him, I kind of say, wait a minute, what's going on here. That is 10 times larger for the racial issue.

HANNITY: Let's look down the line here. Let's assume for the moment, for the sake of discussion, that Hillary gets the nomination for the Democrats. We have watched these tactics and these techniques, the Clintons get their back against the wall. She cries. He attacks. They play the race card. All of this stuff goes on. What will the Republican nominee have to expect? And what tactics do you think they will employ then? And how do you handle it, which is the more important question?

MORRIS: Sean, it depends on who the Republican candidate is. I believe Rudy is going to finish a distant third and I think it's going to come down McCain against Romney on Super Tuesday. McCain is now 12 points ahead of Hillary. Romney is tied with Hillary in the Real Clear Politics polling average.

I think that Hillary will have a hard time finding stuff to attack in McCain. And he will go after her on the war. And then he can come back and say, hey, Hillary, I know something about the military and you don't. We would have more casualties if we were pulling out than with the surge that's keeping our troops safe. And it's really hard for her to go after him.

Romney, she will have a field day. She will go through every one of those venture capital firms, pick them apart, learn all the bad things that they did, every worker they laid off. Hedge fund people basically go in and take companies and turn them around. When you turn them around, you have to fire people. You learn all about that.

COLMES: The Clintons aren't playing racial politics. It's the people who want to act as if they are and using that against them are the ones injecting race in this. Ronald Reagan going into Philadelphia, Mississippi to give his first speech of his campaign, that's racial politics. The Clintons are aren't playing racial politics. Jesse Helms, for whom you once worked, having a commercial against Harvey Gant (ph), where a black guy takes a white guy's job, that's racial politics.

The Clintons are not doing it. But the people who want to blame the Clintons are the ones injecting race into.

MORRIS: Alan, you are amazing.

COLMES: Thank you very much.

MORRIS: I thought you would actually like Barack Obama and defend him.

COLMES: I do like Barack Obama.

MORRIS: Before Iowa and New Hampshire, there was never the word race mentioned in this election. Afterwards, it's all over the election. The reason it's all over the election is that the Clintons aren't playing it in a callous, stupid way, like he did with Sister Soldja in 1992. They are playing it in a very deft way.

What they are doing is they are doing it by indirection. Why are they campaigning so hard for the black vote in South Carolina? They know they are going to lose it. They know they are going to lose South Carolina by 20 points. The reason they are doing it is so that the rejection by the black community will kindle a backlash of the white community. It's very simple. It is indirect and maybe it's too subtle for you, Alan.

COLMES: You're amazing. This is the craziest scheme I have ever heard in my life. You say -- you wrote in your piece, the Clintons want to lose South Carolina, as you just articulated here, so the blacks will vote Obama and the whites will vote for Clinton and polarize the country. Bill Clinton is campaigning in there for his wife hoping she loses.

MORRIS: You got it exactly right.

COLMES: That the is craziest thing I have ever heard in my life.

MORRIS: That's why I'm a pro and you are not.

COLMES: At what?

MORRIS: Politics.

COLMES: I'm not a professional campaign manager. I don't advise. I'm a broadcaster.

MORRIS: I'm telling you what he is doing.

COLMES: You know what's inside their head? And they're racially motivated? And they're willing to manipulate people by race because they don't care about blacks at all? They did nothing for blacks as president the last time. All they want to do is win and the hell with everybody else.

MORRIS: I don't agree that they don't want anything about blacks and I don't agree that they're personally racist. But they know the only way to win this election is to inject racial polarization. Right now, Obama is winning the black vote 67 to 17. Hillary is winning the white vote 42-14 - - 42 to 24.

And they understand that if they can expand that white plurality with three quarters of the vote being white, they are going to win. That's what they are doing.

COLMES: Dick, I don't think you are going to be an advisor in the next Clinton White House. I hate to tell you this.

MORRIS: I don't think so.

COLMES: I don't think that gigs available to you. Thank you for being with us. Coming up, will the Rudy Giuliani strategy work? Can he pull off a win in Florida next Tuesday and breathe life back into his campaign? We will ask him about that and much more coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: On Tuesday, the voters go to the polls in Florida. We will finally find out if the Giuliani strategy worked. Joining us now, presidential candidate and former mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, welcome back to HANNITY AND COLMES.

RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Alan.

COLMES: Mason Dixon has Romney 30, McCain 26, you at 18, Huck at 13. You were at 36, doubling everybody else, in mid-November. Rasmussen has Romney 27, McCain 23, you 20. Also you have lost your lead in New York state, narrowing in New Jersey. What's happening here?

GIULIANI: Well, we are campaigning and we are going to turn thing around in Florida. I'm absolutely sure of it. I just finished a speech here in Sarasota and I talked to them about the kind of candidate that we need coming out of Florida. It has to be someone who can handle both national security and economic security.

When I listen to Mitt and John criticizing each other, one is saying that the other one is short on national security. The other one is saying the other one is short on economic security. I believe I'm the candidate that has been tested and proven in both of those areas. And it seems to me the people of Florida understand that message.

COLMES: I'm sorry, why do you think the numbers have narrowed and reversed themselves from where they were?

GIULIANI: This is a very competitive race. I think the impact of the various primaries that took place in the early part of January -- so we have to make up for some lost ground there, but I think we are doing that. I think we are very competitive and I think we are going to win this. We have a great organization here. And I think the message that this is an election in which we have got to campaign in all 50 states. We have to have a candidate who can contest in all 50 states. I think it's going to resonate in Florida.

COLMES: If you had to put a percentage on your chance of winning, would it be 100 percent? What would you say it is?

GIULIANI: I'm very confident that we are going to win.

COLMES: The "New York Times," as you know, hometown newspaper, never a great fan of yours, admittedly, to begin with. I know you said you never governed by what the "New York Times" said or you wouldn't have been successful. Nevertheless, not only did they endorse John McCain, what they said about you -- they called you a narrow, obsessively secretive, vindictive man. That's got to sting.

GIULIANI: Well, there were a lot of disputes with the "New York Times" and a lot of disputes over ideology and a lot of other things, so I didn't expect anything different than that. And I think that may actually help me with a lot of conservative and Republican voters.

COLMES: The International Association of Firefighters put out circulars saying that you made them use radios that you knew were faulty. Uniformed Firefighters Association, not exactly a Democratic group, also planning to work against you. Why would firefighters, who knew you and worked with you on 9/11, why are they not supporting you.

GIULIANI: I think the overwhelming number of firefighters support me. We've got tremendous firefighter support all over the country. There were union disputes, other disputes that went on New York City. You sort of carry that along with you along with the successes that you have. We have tremendous support from firefighters and police officers all over the country, including here in Florida.

HANNITY: Mr. Mayor, I think if you got the "New York Times" endorsement, I would view that that you are really, really doing something radically wrong in your life. They have been at war with you every single step of the way when you were mayor of New York City. This shouldn't surprise anybody, right?

GIULIANI: Didn't surprise me at all. The reality is there are some very basic differences about -- even just as basic as taxes. The tax program that I put out, which would be the largest tax reduction in American history, is something the "New York Times" thinks is a very big mistake. I believe it's absolutely critical to stimulate our economy.

HANNITY: It's also been clear that the firefighters unions, not the rank and file, have been basically -- one or two of the leaders have been in the Hillary camp for a long time and they have been putting out periodic attacks on you.

Let me ask you this; some will question, I guess, the strategy based on the success of Florida. If you win Florida, you are going to be viewed as a genius. Others will question if you don't do as well in Florida. Why did you choose this strategy, which was a little bit different?

GIULIANI: It seemed like the strategy that would work for us. My candidacy is unconventional candidacy in many ways when you look at my positions and where you have strength and weakness. And the reality is Florida looked like the best place for us to be able to play out our campaign, the things that are important to us. The tax cut we announced here in Florida; people in Florida are very interested in lower taxes. They understand what it means to stimulate an economy.

The National Catastrophic Fund is something that I have come to really learn and understand and that plays out here in Florida, and people not being able to get insurance for their homes. They are not being able to afford it. They really do need that kind of help.

So, the campaign here in Florida seemed to be the place that we could prove ourselves, might be the best way to describe it.

HANNITY: Regardless of the result on Tuesday, you are in through Super Tuesday?

GIULIANI: We are in to win this and we are going to win it. And I'm very, very confident of it. We are focusing right now on Florida. We have endless number of events left, and a lot of people undecided. This is going to go right down to the wire.

HANNITY: Your chief rival in Florida right now -- or one of the two, Senator McCain, has been battling it out with conservatives on a significant number of issues. Do you think he is conservative enough to get the base of the party to rally around him?

GIULIANI: I think I'm the best answer. I think -- in the case of Senator McCain, Senator McCain points out that Mitt Romney has not had national security experience. In the case of Mitt Romney, he is pointing out that John McCain doesn't seem to have as much experience with the economy.

In both areas, I have a great deal of experience. I took an economy in New York that was in terrible shape, as you know, and turned it around. That's the 17th largest economy in the world. So I have a lot of experience doing that. And I had to deal with safety and security of millions of people and have a great deal of experience than that. I just told this group of Republicans here in Sarasota that I'm really the candidate they are looking for. I combine both.

HANNITY: All right, early voting may play a big part in the vote counting come Tuesday night. How important do you think that's going to be for you and will that benefit you?

GIULIANI: We think it will. We have been campaigning here all during that early voting period, trying to get people out to vote. We know there has been very heavy early voting. We think that will benefit us. We think that was part of the reason why we put so much focus on Florida.

HANNITY: Mr. Mayor, we will see you on Tuesday night. Good luck on Tuesday. Thank you, as always, for being with us. We appreciate it.

GIULIANI: Thank you, Sean. Thank you, Alan.

COLMES: Thank you.

HANNITY: Former presidential candidate John Kerry has some surprising words for former President Bill Clinton. The fastest two segments in politics; that's coming up straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Abuse of the truth is what happened. I think, I mean, being an ex-president does not give you license to abuse the truth. And I think that over the last days it's been over the top. Things have been said about Barack Obama's positions that are just plain untrue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Some very harsh words from former presidential candidate John Kerry about President Clinton's actions on the campaign trail.

Joining us now for the fastest two segments in politics from the Claire Boothe Luce Policy Institute, Kate Obenshain is with us, Democratic strategist Rich Masters and NPR political editor Ken Rudin is with us.

Guys, welcome back.

You know, Kate, I mean, it is pretty interesting that John Kerry and a lot of Democrats basically are saying to Bill Clinton stop lying and smearing and hurting the Democratic Party. But he's out there. This is now -- the New York Times is telling us this is their strategy. Why -- why would he (ph)?

KATE OBENSHAIN, CLAIRE BOOTH LUCE POLICY INSTITUTE: It's an amazing thing for us conservatives to watch as liberals take off these rose-colored glasses and recognize what we've known for a long time and that is that their hero has difficulty with the truth.

And it is -- it's a problem, but you know, it's a strategy that Mrs. Clinton is working hand-in-hand with him on. And the problem is that long- time Clintonites are stepping back, and they're saying, "Hold on a minute here."

Because when Clinton attacks -- when Mr. Clinton attacks, he is mean.

HANNITY: Yes.

OBENSHAIN: I mean, he's not the nice, warm, fuzzy Bill Clinton everybody loves.

HANNITY: You know, Ken Rudin, I -- for all the years I've said it's selective moral outrage. All the Democrats that are now outraged and shocked and horrified and surprised at Bill Clinton's attacks against Barack Obama, it was perfectly acceptable if it was Monica Lewinski or Gennifer Flowers or Kathleen Wiley or Ken Starr.

Now all of a sudden, they've crossed the line. He can lie about anybody, as long as they're a Republican.

KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, of course it was acceptable now because then it was a vast right-wing conspiracy. But John Kerry, Pat Leahy, Jim Clyburn of South Carolina and certainly, Barack Obama, they're not part of the right-wing conspiracy.

They're all saying what a lot of people have said about Bill Clinton for the longest time: the Clintons will do anything they can to win and, unfortunately, it's somebody on their own side who is feeling the worst of it.

HANNITY: All right. Bill Clinton was asked earlier today on the campaign trail how his wife, Hillary, could unite the country when it's so split politically and racially and why she -- as a polarizing figure, how she could pull this off. Here's his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They have systematically polarized the country. The right-wing Republican faction has. They first took over the Republican Party. And then they performed reverse plastic surgery on all the Democrats.

The only reason I survived it is I know those people. I grew up with them. And so do I think it would be nice if nobody were mad at anybody? Sure I do. But that -- that strategy will be abandoned when the American people stop rewarding it.

Now, if you look at the Republican Party, it looks like they're not going to reward that anymore. It looks like they're trying to reach out and come toward us. Not because we're Democrats but because we're all people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: You know, Rich, there's a vast right-wing conspiracy, a vast left-wing conspiracy. He also went on to talk about he and his wife and John McCain. They get along so well together.

Why do the Clintons always feel they're being persecuted?

(IMPERSONATING BILL CLINTON) "The right-wingers, they're coming out. They're like those bullies."

COLMES: Please stop. Please.

RICH MASTERS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, listen. I mean, Sean, I mean, you're right in one aspect. I mean, obviously, Bill Clinton's presidency was marred by the fact that there was a concerted effort to smear him from the time he took to the Oval Office.

HANNITY: Oh, stop it.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no.

MASTERS: Let me finish what I'm saying.

HANNITY: It sounds paranoid conspiracy here.

MASTERS: Let me finish what I'm saying.

COLMES: Let's move forward here. You know, all the Republicans can do is talk about Hillary Clinton. Who are the Clintons? That's all they can talk about for president.

MASTERS: She is running for president.

COLMES: Look at some of the sound from last night's debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we do what Senator Clinton said that she wanted to do the night before last, and that's wave the right flag of surrender and set a date for withdrawal. Then we will have expenses, my friends.

RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When the polls were six and seven out of 10 Americans thinking it was a good idea Hillary Clinton was in favor of the war. And now, when the polls are six out of ten are against, Hillary Clinton is against the war.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She is exactly what's wrong in Washington. I said before Washington is broken. She is Washington to the core.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Kate, if you guys end up running against Barack Obama, you're not going to have a strategy because all you ever do is knock the Clintons.

OBENSHAIN: Well, the way that Senator and Mr. Clinton are treating Barack Obama, I think it's unlikely that we're going to be running against him. And it's a shame that he's not getting a fair shot.

But of course, we want to run against Senator Clinton. I mean, you look at what she stands for.

COLMES: Then you ought to praise her.

OBENSHAIN: Universal health care. Taking away profits for the good of people. Basing her foreign policy on the polls instead of national security interest. You bet.

COLMES: It's only going to help them, because people don't want to hear...

OBENSHAIN: Alan, the Clintons are so out of step with the American people.

COLMES: I'm shocked to hear you say that. Let's...

OBENSHAIN: I know you are.

COLMES: Let's look up to -- let's move on to our next segment -- our next element here and see Barack Obama on the Letterman show last night. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": Top 10 Barack Obama campaign promises. Here we go. Number 10.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To keep the budget balanced, I'll rent the situation room for sweet 16s.

LETTERMAN: That's a nice idea. No. 9.

OBAMA: I will double your tax money at the craps table.

LETTERMAN: Good idea. No. 8.

OBAMA: Appoint Mitt Romney Secretary of Looking Good.

LETTERMAN: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Hey, Ken Rudin, pretty smart of these candidates to actually go on and be seen in this kind of venue, isn't it?

RUDIN: It is. You'd never know that Barack Obama was a nice guy, because if you listen to the Clintons he's a terrible -- you know, he's...

COLMES: Let's blame up the Clintons. Let's bring up the Clintons once again and blame the Clintons. You can't even say hello without the word "Clinton" being the response.

HANNITY: You can't stop defending them.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: They're not saints, for crying out loud.

COLMES: What's happened to you people? Enough already with the Clintons. We're not even talking about Barack Obama and Letterman.

RUDIN: I feel like -- I feel like I'm sitting with George Costanza's parents. I mean, out of control (ph). But the thing is, watch what they're saying on the campaign trail. That's all you have to do.

COLMES: All right. I'm going to say, "How's the weather?"

You'll say, "The Clintons," when we get back.

First, we'll check with Greta Van Susteren, here to tell us what's coming up right after "Hannity & Colmes" at 10 Eastern.

Good evening, Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "ON THE RECORD": Good evening, Alan.

It remains a huge mystery tonight what was going on in Heath Ledger's apartment in the minutes and hours before he was found dead in his apartment. We'll have the latest on that investigation.

Plus, his family is now speaking out. What is the family saying? We'll have that, as well.

Back to you.

COLMES: Thank you very much.

And coming up next, Mitt Romney calls out Hillary Clinton on health care. But was the former Massachusetts governor off the Mark with some of his words? The fastest two segments in politics continues, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Her health care plan, quite simply, is one which says, look, we're going to give health insurance to everybody by the government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: That was Mitt Romney from last night's Republican debate, questioning Hillary Clinton's national health-care proposal.

The Associated Press took issue with Romney's words and released the following statement: "Clinton's plan does not propose that the government give everyone health insurance. Most people and companies would pay for it, like now. The New York senator proposes that the government help those who can't afford the insurance to buy it, so that everyone can be covered, and use tax credits to small businesses and other spending to try to make that possible. Existing health insurance plans would be preserved for those who want it, while people could choose to join other programs she proposes to create."

We now continue with Kate Obenshain, Rich Masters, and Ken Rudin.

Rich Masters, they want to misrepresent the Clintons, as much as the Clintons are accused of misrepresenting others. They've misrepresented, Mitt did, her health-care plan.

MASTERS: Yes. Really shocking. I mean, you know -- I mean, basically Mitt Romney proposed exactly in Massachusetts some of those exact same things that Hillary Clinton is proposing now. And now all of a sudden, you know, he's flip-flopped, which shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean, this guy is clearly the biggest flip-flopper that we have seen run for national office, probably in American political history.

COLMES: He'd be an easier candidate to beat than John McCain, probably.

But you know, McCain and Romney going at it on the right. People want to look at Clinton and Obama going at it. But let's look at McCain and Romney. Let's take a look at this McCain ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Massachusetts governor, Romney refused to take a position on the Bush tax cut and then increased taxes by $700 million but tried to call them fees. Where does Mitt Romney stand? Whichever way the wind blows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Pretty clever, Ken Rudin. They tried to paint Kerry as a flip flopper, about which that ad is based. But now look at Mitt Romney and the different positions he's taken and election-year conversions he's had. I think McCain puts out a good ad there. What do you say?

RUDIN: He does. Unfortunately, I think all the Republicans are flawed with that, because McCain has flip-flopped on the Bush tax cut. But clearly, if you're talking about abortion, stem cell research, you know, same-sex marriage, Mitt Romney has had several positions: one when he was running against Ted Kennedy for the Senate, one when he was running as governor of Massachusetts and of course, one when running for the Republican presidential nomination.

COLMES: One other quick thing here before we move on. Last night, I guess Mike Huckabee tells us where the WMDs are. He said this in the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, everybody can look back and say, "Oh, well, we didn't find the weapons." It doesn't mean they weren't there. Just because you didn't find every Easter egg didn't mean that it wasn't planted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Kate Obenshain, comparing the WMDs to Easter eggs?

OBENSHAIN: Yes, I wouldn't have recommended doing that. I think it - - it highlights the seriousness of candidates like Romney and McCain on national security issues. And I certain wouldn't have suggested using that verbiage for Huckabee.

COLMES: And he said they're in Jordan. Any evidence of that?

OBENSHAIN: Yes, I'm not -- I'm not going to be defending Huckabee on this one, Alan. I -- I don't have much to say on the Easter egg analogy.

COLMES: Ken, you want to defend him?

RUDIN: I think he meant Vernon Jordan. I think Vernon Jordan has those weapons of mass destruction.

HANNITY: All right, guys, let me -- let me -- first of all, does anyone flop-flopper (ph)? When Hillary Clinton took...

OBENSHAIN: Yes, I...

HANNITY: ... five separate positions on driver's licenses for illegal immigrants...

MASTER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

HANNITY: There will be no better ad in this campaign than her, if you have a little clock and her changing her position over a 36-hour period of time.

You add that to the flipping and flopping and flamming on Iraq, I think she won't have a case to make against anybody, except to the Clinton Kool-Aid people which will defend the Clintons over anything.

Kate, it seems that it doesn't matter what the Clintons do: you have them on video robbing a bank with a gun, they will make an excuse for these people. What is that? Explain that phenomenon.

OBENSHAIN: Explain why the Democrats will make excuses for them?

HANNITY: Yes, I want to know -- I want to explain the phenomenon of Clinton Kool-Aid drinkers. Those what will...

OBENSHAIN: I think it's power. I think it's just that, you know, they know this conversation among Democrats should be based on policies instead of bringing -- injecting race and gender. And, you know, the Clintons are just being vicious and mean.

But the interesting thing is, Sean, I do think some of the Kool-Aid drinkers are stepping back, maybe taking a break from the Kool-Aid and saying, "Wait a minute."

HANNITY: Well, that's because they attacked -- the used their tactics, for once, against a Democrat. All right. What are we going to make...

OBENSHAIN: ... exactly right.

HANNITY: What are we going to make of this, Rich Masters? And this is Senator McCain's 95-year-old mother saying that her son does not have a lot of support within his own party.

MASTERS: Well, I think she's...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much support do you think he has among the base of the Republican Party?

ROBERTA MCCAIN, SENATOR MCCAIN'S MOTHER: I don't think he has any.

I don't know what the base of the -- maybe I don't know enough about it, but I've not seen any help whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So can he then go on and become the nominee of his party?

R. MCCAIN: Yes, I think holding the nose, they're going to have to take him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Oh, man. That's rough.

MASTERS: Listen, Sean. Well, listen, I think there should be a prohibition, Republican or Democrat, against interviewing anyone's grandmother at 95. For Miss Lillian on down the road, I mean, you know, these -- these folks are not in the spotlight.

And I absolutely agree with her. I think she's got some -- I think Senator McCain has some real serious problems, and we're looking forward to running against him.

HANNITY: Kate, what about that, the problems that he has with conservatives? Does he get to overcome that, now that we head into states that you don't have an independent factor?

OBENSHAIN: He has got an uphill battle with conservatives. There's no question about that. And you know, I think Mitt -- I think Romney really highlighted some of those issues last night.

But it's been a tough 24 hours for McCain on the conservative issues. The debate last night was a little bit tough on the global warming stuff. And then the endorsement by the "New York Times" was just a big body-slam today. So, he's got some comeback work to do.

HANNITY: All right, guys. Good to see you and have a great weekend.

Coming up next, Super Tuesday, less than two weeks away. We're going to explore talk radio's role in how America will choose the candidates next. Straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: Well, here we are, less than two weeks from Super Tuesday, and the presidential race remains right open and so does talk radio, well, for that matter. It seems that several high-profile hosts are still undecided about who they want to back.

So how will this all play out and what role will talk radio have in shaping which candidates are left standing?

Joining us now, the editor of Talkers magazine, Michael Harrison, and the author of "Great Failures of the Extremely Successful, L.A. Daily News columnist Steve Young is with us.

Michael, Steve, welcome back to the both of you.

STEVE YOUNG, L.A. DAILY NEWS COLUMNIST: Thank you.

HANNITY: Michael, let me start with you. First of all, it's driving me nuts. It's like people are -- "You know, talk radio has lost its influence. It's playing no role in this campaign."

Your magazine is -- is the defining magazine in the industry that is the only one that doesn't have a conflict of interest and studies the real numbers of real hosts. The ratings are rising through the roof for people like Rush and Levine and Boortz and my show.

MICHAEL HARRISON, EDITOR, TALKERS MAGAZINE: Because it's -- the rating business is not measured in any terms of reality by whether it gets people elected or not. It's measured by how many people are listening and how much revenue it generates.

And it's not about a political campaign. It's about a forum upon which politics is discussed. And they're very different things.

HANNITY: And do you -- I know that you were the only one that actually looks at the ratings. There are people out there that have, like, a conflict of interest or an agenda or special deals they have with hosts. But yours is the only magazine that actually looks at the ratings to come up with estimates for the audience size of the hosts.

Are you beginning to see the trends, in an election year, predictably going up, as we put on the screen?

HARRISON: There's no question, when there's great material. And what can be better on news talk radio or political talk radio than a presidential election where you don't have an incumbent president or vice president running?

We've got two exciting primaries. One exciting primary would be great against an incumbent or a vice president. But two open fields? This is the best -- this might be the best election of a lifetime.

HANNITY: Yes. This is -- Steve Young, you're following this election as closely as I am. It's an open -- it's an open primary. You know, the idea that somehow conservatives are supposed to or conservative radio hosts are supposed to rally behind one candidate, where did that notion ever come from? I find it absurd.

YOUNG: Well, maybe you should have looked at the last eight years when everybody was lock step behind Bush. Wait a second. Of course, when there was the push polling in South Carolina, there was a little bit of deviation between the parties. Some people thought McCain...

HANNITY: Steve, I disagreed with the president on five, six, seven major issues.

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: ... not every choice may be -- president or a candidate. But certainly, they're going against them.

Mike Harrison, many conservatives, Rush Limbaugh in particular, have been brutal about John McCain and said if he's the nominee it will be the end of the Republican Party. Now, if John McCain is the nominee, do you have a bunch of talk radio hosts led by Rush who have to go and backtrack because "look what they've done?" What do they do then?

HARRISON: What they do then is they move on and count on attention deficit disorder to make everything OK, because most people won't remember in two months.

The fact of the matter is one of the arts of doing this is to be able to give your opinion and then modify it as the facts demand without losing face. That's what makes it interesting.

COLMES: All right. Steve, do you have a dog in this hunt? Do you care which candidate? Do you use your radio time to advocate for a candidate? Or are you just there to entertain people?

YOUNG: Well, unfortunately, when Duncan Hunter fell out of the race. I kind of lost all feeling for the election.

But I feel like this is sort of the -- it's sort of like the Civil War right now. You've got Jefferson Davis on the left -- well, you've you got Jefferson Davis on the right as far, as talk radio is concerned.

But the fact is it's like the Republican bucket list. All they're doing is covering every guy they want to elect. And then when they go all through them, at the end they will have nobody because Rush said, beck said, a number of them said they are not going to pull that leave for McCain. There is an implosion happening.

COLMES: The big question is, Mike, how much clout does a talk radio host have? Can talk radio sway an election? And can a host have enough clout with a big enough audience to determine who a nominee is and ultimately who a president is?

HARRISON: Yes, it could happen. But there's no such thing as a monolithic thing called talk radio. There's no such thing as the public.

If it's a very close election, talk radio collectively might have an impact. If there's election that's not getting covered by any other medium. Talk radio can suddenly make it a national issue.

But this is issue by issue, time by time, candidate by candidate. There's no generalization that you can draw. The one thing you can draw is that the people that listened to talk radio are most likely to be voters. Statistics bear that out.

COLMES: This goes to the basic question. Is it entertainment medium? Is it an information medium? Or is it a political movement, talk radio to try to sway people to believe a certain way, Mike.

HARRISON: Clearly it's all three as is almost everything in the public forum and in the media today.

COLMES: Great point.

HARRISON: I mean, entertainment and reality are so close together and so connected by so blurry a line that I think that's one of the key issues of our time.

COLMES: All right, guys. We thank you both very much for being with us tonight.

YOUNG: It's nice to be on "Colmes & Hannity."

COLMES: Thanks very much.

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