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January 21, 2008

Al Sharpton on the Clinton/Obama Fight

Hannity & Colmes

COLMES: Welcome to HANNITY AND COLMES. We get right to our top story tonight. The Republican campaign for president has moved to sunny Florida. Voters go to the polls next Tuesday. The race again appears too close to call, with Mitt Romney, John McCain, and Rudy Giuliani all in striking distance.

Joining us now, former vice presidential nominee and John McCain supporter, Jack Kemp. Nice to see you, once again, sir. There's been no momentum from any candidate coming out of any of the primary states so far. Even McCain is ahead, it seems, in Florida, but within the margin of error. Why no momentum going on?

JACK KEMP, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, I think winning New Hampshire and then South Carolina against a lot of odds and a lot of money, by the way, gives John a leg up going into Florida. He's come out with a very strong economic growth package that I helped work with him on. And I frankly think, given what's happening in the markets overseas and what might happen tomorrow -- I don't like to predict stock prices.

But it's clear that the White House rebate stimulus is not getting anybody excited. It's going to take a lot more economic activity, lower tax rates on corporate income, expensing of all investment and machinery, equipment and technology, remove the alternative minimum tax. And I think the Fed should cut the Fed Funds Rate, the short term over night cost of money, by at least 75 basis points.

COLMES: Are you advising John McCain on all these things? The positions you just stated, are those John McCain's positions?

KEMP: I don't speak for John. He speaks for himself, as we all know. I like that about him. Clearly he's come out with that package. He also wants to make permanent the cut in the capital gains tax to 15 that Bush would should credit for, a cut in the tax on dividends. These are capital formation.

This isn't for the rich. This is to inject oxygen into our body economic. And John understands that. And I think he's got a lot of momentum.

Watching the football games last weekend, as an old quarterback, I'd say this -- it's true in politics and football -- you're either on offense or defense. And John is on offense.

COLMES: Let me ask you this, conservatives especially have put him under fire for not supporting the Bush tax cuts on a couple of different occasions. This is not liberal Alan Colmes speaking. This is the conservative base of the party, which has gone after John McCain for that. Does he have a response to those accusations?

KEMP: Well, I had trouble with that, and I went down and talked to him in South Carolina. We had a great talk about this, and we talked about what is going forth. Politics is not about the past as much as it's about the future. John now is on the side of incentive-oriented economics, pro- growth, pro-family, pro-jobs, and pro-capital formation. So, I think he's positioned very correctly for Florida and the rest --

COLMES: Why didn't he support the Bush tax cuts?

KEMP: I don't know. I think it was a mistake. He's stubborn. I love him for it.

COLMES: He's the guy you're supporting?

KEMP: I've made mistakes on policy before. We all have. I think it was a mistake. As I said, this campaign is about the future, not the past.

COLMES: John McCain does much better among independents than he does among hard-core conservatives. This is the only primary -- we're talking about looking ahead to Florida -- where it's open only to registered Republicans. Will that hurt John McCain?

KEMP: I don't think so. His credentials in the Republican party are awfully good. I know my buddy, Rick Santorum, won't agree with that, but that's what campaigns are all about, disagreements and findings places of agreement. If we're to win, we need a candidate who can go to all sections of the country, which I think John can. I think he can go to people of color. He can go to the Native American reservations. He can go into the black community, the blue collar labor communities and stick to Republican principles, predicated on Reagan and Abraham Lincoln.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Jack, it was great to see you at the fight on Saturday night at the Garden.

KEMP: That was a good fight. I'm a Roy Jones fan. I'm glad to see him on the come back.

HANNITY: I've got to tell you something, what a talented fighter. We were both at Madison Square Garden watching it. That was the first time I've ever been to a boxing match. It was great. It was great to see you.

COLMES: What about HANNITY AND COLMES?

HANNITY: I can tell you that this is a growing problem among conservatives. If you look at the exit polls in South Carolina, we see this, Jack, with conservatives. He lost them two to one. Rick Santorum, who you mentioned, will be on later in the show; quote, we would have had a bigger tax cut if not for John McCain. Rudy Giuliani puts out on his -- on taxes alone, in his 20-year Senate career, John has voted 52 times for higher taxes on the American people.

KEMP: Sean, with all due respect, Rudolph Giuliani endorsed Mr. Tax himself, Mario Cuomo, over George Pataki, who had a Camp Roth bill for New York.

HANNITY: I live in New York. He cut taxes 24 times. He got 650,000 people off the welfare rolls. That's his question. I think it was a big mistake supporting Cuomo. I'm with you. Here's my question --

KEMP: I'm just saying, look, keep everything in perspective. We all make mistakes. I did some dumb things and had some dumb votes. We all have had -- and you certainly have, as Alan points out every night. Clearly John -- I want a commander in chief, Sean. I want someone who can stand up to Putin, who can stand up to China, who can stand up to our adversaries.

This is a new world, the 21st century. He wants a 21st century tax code. He's asked me and Phil Graham to work on it with him. I think he's on the right side of incentive-oriented economics for the future.

HANNITY: He said at the time of the Bush tax cuts, he said it was only because of spending. These are quotes from him from "the Today Show," quote, the Bush tax cuts goes only to the wealthiest Americans. He also said, the GOP tax cuts were at the expense of the middle class.

That sounds like Alan. That sounds like Hillary. That sounds like Barack Obama.

KEMP: No one has a better record on that than, hopefully, Jack Kemp. I went into every urban area in America that I could when I was secretary of Housing and Urban Development, calling for the elimination of the capital gain tax. It's not a tax on the rich. It's a tax on poor people who want to get rich. You can't get rich on wages. You've got to be able to save, earn, -- earn, save, and invest, and reinvest.

HANNITY: There's so much I like about Senator McCain, including we have a good personal relation; his personal story is one of heroism; I love -- I think he's been pretty right for the most part on the war in Iraq. And he's been steadfast.

But let's go through the issues. He has problems with conservatives. He has a problem not only on the tax cuts, but on ANWR -- he voted against. He's got problems with conservatives on McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, Gang of 14. You've got to see there's some problems coming here for him.

KEMP: He knows that. He's a big boy. He knows that, and he's faced those challenges before. All I'm saying is, if you look at the total picture and what type of leadership he would provide for our country here in the 21st century -- you know, Trent Lott, Jon Kyl, Phil Gramm, Jack Kemp, Tom Coburn -- he's got a neat team.

HANNITY: Tom Delay said he may sit out this election if, in fact, he gets the nomination.

KEMP: That's ridiculous. Tom should be ashamed of himself.

COLMES: I've been saying that for years.

HANNITY: I'll tell him you said that. Can he win -- how does he win back those conservatives? Does he need to make promises for the future?

KEMP: I don't think it's so much just making promises. I think it's governing at the center, in the center right, where most of the American people are. They want their families. They want education. They want jobs. They want a better future. I think John will make that type of --

He's not Ronald Reagan. I'm not Ronald Reagan. There are no Ronald Reagans in this race. But I think he's got a credible record. He has got to make some changes. I didn't like the McCain-Feingold bill. But I believe he's the type of a positive conservative that can win more votes than any of the other candidates.

HANNITY: It was great to see you at the boxing match the other night. We always appreciate you being with us. Jack Kemp, thank you.

Barack Obama has some very choice words for Bill Clinton regarding his role in Hillary's campaign. We're going to play you what the Illinois senator had to say earlier today.

And speaking of the former president, see anything strange in this video? Dozing off?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If you have something that just directly contradicts the facts, and it's coming from a former president, I think that's a problem, because people presume that a former president's going to have more credibility. And I think there's certain responsibilities that are carried with that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything else that you want to set the record straight that he said one thing about you, and you're now saying that's false?

OBAMA: President Clinton went on the -- in front of a large group and said that I had claimed that only Republicans had had any good ideas since 1980, and then he added, I'm not making this up. He was making it up and completely mischaracterizing my statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: That was presidential candidate Barack Obama making his opinion of Bill Clinton widely known. Joining us now former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, former Democratic pollster Pat Caddell, and chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council, Harold Ford Jr., all three Fox News contributors.

Senator Santorum, we'll begin with you. I guess what he's saying -- it's a shocking revelation -- Bill Clinton doesn't tell the truth.

RICK SANTORUM, FORMER SENATOR: Wow. Maybe he missed out on the whole impeachment thing. I'm sort of stunned that he would say that -- somehow or another, that Bill Clinton has never prevaricated in his life. That's sort of typical for Clinton to use hyperbole and to assign things that he would like people to do and say, as opposed to what they actually did do and say.

HANNITY: I will tell you this, Congressman Ford -- now you're entrepreneur -- Barack Obama is now fighting back, and he's hitting back hard. It seems that as this campaign has gone on, I think he's recognized that the Clintons, through their surrogates and others, are going to be pretty vicious in their attacks, pointed in their attacks. He's decided to fight back, and I think far more effectively than the Clintons ever imagined he would.

HAROLD FORD JR., DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP COUNCIL: He has been effective. He is powerful in his eloquence and his presentation. I hope that this debate on the Democratic side moves back to talking about where each of the candidates want to take the country going forward. At the end of the day, this is a process about selecting someone to face the Republicans in the fall. And if you're unable to talk specifically about a stimulus package -- when I say specifically, they were, but in as forceful a way as they've been critical of one another.

I hope they move beyond it. The country doesn't need it. The party certainty doesn't need it. It disadvantages us heading into November.

HANNITY: Pat Caddell, if I could turn to you, "Newsweek" has a piece that prominent Democrats are upset at Bill Clinton's role in the campaign. They report that both Senator Kennedy and Congressman Rahm Emanuel, both supposedly neutral in the Democratic contest, have been calling Bill Clinton and saying, knock it off, stop with the rhetoric, stop attacking Barack Obama. You're hurting the whole party. Your thoughts?

PAT CADDELL, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Well, if they feel that strongly, they should say so publicly, because it's not having a lot of effect so far. The fact of the matter is that we have -- they are really tearing the party up right now, and I believe there are going to be serious consequences. I think that some of the things that the Clinton campaign --

And I believe for Hillary Clinton, she's got a problem. Is Bill Clinton running for his third term here, or is she running? Does he have to protect her every time? Can she speak for herself? These are going to be problems that are going to crop up not just in the primaries but in the general election.

Let me just say, Bob, looking at the Nevada results, what we're starting to see is this race breakdown into race versus gender. And that's very dangerous for the Democratic party, and people should be alarmed. The Clintons have a lot of responsibility for this.

HANNITY: Let me turn to -- I, as a Republican, have been so offended by the Democratic party. Predictably this happens every election cycle; 1998, radio ad, Democratic party, Missouri, if you elect Republicans, crosses are going to burn; the James Bird (ph) ad. George Bush supported the death penalty for the people responsible for that dragging death. That was a despicable use of the race card.

Similarly, we see it -- it seems the Democrats, tactics they've used against Republicans, they're using against each other in this campaign. Is this going to hurt the party?

FORD: I wouldn't go that far. Governor Huckabee in South Carolina aligned himself with those who wanted to fly the flag which overwhelmingly the business community -- Republican business community said not do any longer. George Bush went down and endorsed the same thing.

HANNITY: Robert Byrd ran the Senate.

(CROSS TALK)

FORD: There are huge differences between us. At the end of the day, I would agree with your premise. I would agree with Pat's premise. This is not helpful to the party if want to win in November. Voters don't want a gender/race discussion. They want an America first discussion.

COLMES: Rick Santorum, I think we've gone beyond the gender and race discussion, but Hillary and Obama clearly are going at each other now on the issues and on some of the things Bill Clinton has said. But Republicans, you know, this idea that we should go back and talk about what happened in 1998 and beyond and what Democrats did with certain ads that they ran, you've had Republicans play identity politics forever, dividing based on gays, based on abortion, based on all kinds of things.

You can't act like you're the innocents and it's only Democrats who do this stuff.

SANTORUM: Well, I think Sean's right.

COLMES: Of course you do.

SANTORUM: The race card is played in every race. It was played against me. It's played against any Republican in a state or a district that has a large African-American population. Jack Kemp was just on before me. And I'll match my record about going into the inner city and working in those neighborhoods as well as anybody else. It doesn't mean it's not used against you and your record isn't taken and distorted.

This is a common tactic of the left and of the Democratic party.

(CROSS TALK)

FORD: -- where the National Republican Party ran a set of ads that were simply despicable, obnoxious, and had no business being in any people's living room. So we could have this debate, and Rick can say what he chooses, but the reality is the country is not interested in this. We can all have a story and tell a story, and I think I can tell a compelling story.

The reality is, how do we fix this economy and ensure that middle class Americans have jobs and health security. And for that matter, we find new energy options for the country. That's where we should be headed, both Democrats and Republicans, for the country's sake.

COLMES: Pat Caddell, we're seeing the most important issue is the economy, even more so than the Iraq war. And we've got a situation now where I don't know how this Republican administration can say, look what we've done for the economy, and have some Republican candidate run on the record of what Republicans have done up until this point.

CADDELL: They're going to have a problem. Look, in South Carolina, the biggest issue in the Republican primary Saturday was the economy, by far. It's not just Democrats that are having this problem. It's -- I mean the Republicans. This is an issue not just with Democrats, but with everyone in the country, and it's going to be a serious problem. Republicans better get a message other than how good it's been for you.

COLMES: We'll continue with our panel in just a moment. Coming up, Bill Clinton tells Fox News that he personally witnessed voter intimidation in Las Vegas. What exactly did he see? We'll get into that coming up on HANNITY AND COLMES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that all the votes should count the same. And I think that everybody should have equal access to the caucus. So we've done what we could to find people who could come in here and caucus.

For example, we did get eight people in today who caucused at the previous site, who were told they had to register by Wednesday to vote, but they could only register if they registered for Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: That was former President Bill Clinton describing what he calls voter intimidation during Saturday's Nevada Democratic caucus. We now continue with Rick Santorum, Pat Caddell, and Harold Ford Jr. Pat, does Bill Clinton have a point there that there was some kind of intimidation to get people to vote for Barack Obama?

CADDELL: Well, I'm sure there was pressure put on by the union. It didn't seem to work very well, given those large strip at large caucus sites -- Hillary Clinton did very well. In fact, she won a couple of them. So I don't know. I just thought a lot of the stuff that they were complaining about and doing is really not very helpful, and it is -- it's cut throat.

And I don't understand what the former president of the United States is doing out there. This is ludicrous.

COLMES: It's cut throat on both sides. If you look at what happened in South Carolina and prior to that, look at what happened to McCain the last time in South Carolina, Harold Ford Jr. Look what happened between Huckabee and Romney, McCain and Romney, went after each other in New Hampshire. It was vicious the things they're saying to each other. Conservatives like to focus on Clinton and Obama at each other throats.

FORD: This is an unusual -- and as much as I respect Mr. Cadell's point about the former president, it's his spouse, his wife, and the mother of his daughter whose running. I hear what you're saying. Some of the language may be a little over the top. Nonetheless, I can understand why he's there.

The reality is these primaries do these kind of things to candidates. Chuck Norris made an awful comment about John McCain, and John McCain I thought had a great comeback about sending his mother over to Chuck Norris' place. I'm sure Chuck Norris meant no harm by it, just to say, hey, I think my candidate is better. You get into this very difficult and challenging and almost volatile time in the campaign, and these things are said.

I'm glad Nevada is over with. They're now on to South Carolina. Let's get back to talking about how you pay for an infrastructure plan, how you pay for a stimulus plan. How do you balance the budget and cut taxes?

COLMES: People want to blame surrogates for everything the campaign believes. I know it's a little different in Bill Clinton's case because he happens to be married to the candidate and happens to be a former president, but you want to hold a surrogate responsible for everything a candidate says or believes, you can play that game on both sides of the aisle.

SANTORUM: What's really happening here is this is a very competitive primary on both sides. And we haven't seen that kind of competition this far into a primary in quite sometime. And it's really -- they're both open. They're both up for grabs right now, and you're seeing the intensity ratchet up. And you're going to get personal comments made. Every campaign is looking for that little edge that can give him that extra percentage to win.

And so you're going to start to see a lot more like this. I agree with Harold. I wish they'd talk and focus and the media would cover more about the issues, but they're not. They're going to talk about this stuff.

HANNITY: Pat, I want to stay with Rick for just a second here. Rick, we just had Jack Kemp on moments ago, and we were discussing Senator McCain. You've been very forceful, as have many conservatives, in their criticism of the senator. He's moving out of states where there's an independent factor into states where there's only Republican voters. So I asked the question, does Senator McCain have a conservative problem.

SANTORUM: Before I say anything, John McCain has sacrificed and suffered more for this country than I have or ever will. So I have a lot of respect for him and his own personal commitment to this country. I just don't believe that he's been a conservative, particularly on issues that I find very important on the domestic front, the economy, and business issues, and on internal security issues.

He's been great on the war, but he's really not been so great here about protecting our borders and interrogation, and other types of things that are very important for our own internal security. And a lot of conservatives have serious concerns about his campaign, and he's trying to reformulate. I think it's great that he's now for capital gains tax cuts and he's now for reductions in the dividend. But he almost stopped both of those, and we would have had better tax cuts had he been more cooperative in working with us in 2001 and 2003.

HANNITY: Pat, if you want to jump in, go ahead.

CADDELL: First of all, we need to comment -- it hasn't really been done since Saturday -- his comeback is probably one of the most miraculous in presidential history, given what happened this summer. He basically did it with character, number one. Number two, in South Carolina -- I went back and looked at the exit polls from 2000 -- 40 percent of the voters -- remember, there's no registration by party here in South Carolina -- 40 percent of the voters were Democrats or independents in 2000. It was down to 20 percent -- it was 80 percent Republican. And he actually ran even with moderate conservatives. The stronger conservatives, yes, he loses.

HANNITY: Wait a minute, he lost conservatives by two to one to Huckabee in South Carolina on Saturday night.

CADDELL: He lost strong conservatives. Moderate conservatives --

HANNITY: He won moderates, but he didn't win the conservatives.

CADDELL: I'm saying, if you break them in half, which they did, which is actually two to one, strong conservatives -- and it was 60 percent evangelical Christians here, which is a tough group for him. I'm just saying, I think it's miraculous, and I think it was a tough election. But the point is, what I love about Republicans, they have a candidate who probably, if Hillary Clinton, in particular, is the nominee, will win, and they want to kill him. I don't get it.

HANNITY: Pat, Appreciate it, thank you. Senator Santorum, Congressman, good to see you, and we appreciate you all being with us.

Coming up, today we celebrate the birth of an American civil rights icon; the Reverend Al Sharpton joins us for a look back at the life of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And later, the rigors of campaigning catch up to former President Bill Clinton at the most inopportune time. There he's sleeping. We'll show you the whole video, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: King inspired with words, not of anger, but of an urgency that still speaks to us today.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's an opportunity to renew our deep desire for America to be a -- a land of promise for everybody.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I remember crying like a baby. I remember saying, "This is the America I want to be a part of."

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What his legacy means is that there are people today who have opportunities who would have had nothing but oppression.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are called to rise up, speak up, and finally get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Now, today we honor and remember the life and legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., a man whose contributions still resonate 40 years after his passing.

Joining us now, National Action Network founder Reverend Al Sharpton. Race has been all over this campaign. What do you -- what do you think Dr. King would think of that?

REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: Well, I think what he would want to know is that, if you're going to talk about race, let's talk about how we close the race gaps...

HANNITY: Yes.

SHARPTON: ... rather than taking racial shots at each other. I think that he'd be disappointed in that.

HANNITY: Hillary Clinton goes and gets the endorsement of the Reverend Calvin Butts yesterday. I'm sure you're familiar with them, well- known pastor in Harlem in New York. And you know, Hillary saying what a man; he's brought people together. This is the guy that said about Rudy Giuliani: "Go to hell, white man."

SHARPTON: Well, I think -- I don't know if Reverend Butts said that. I remember when...

HANNITY: I have the tape.

SHARPTON: I remember in -- I believe it was St. Patrick Cathedral. He embraced Giuliani and said we need to work together. A lot of people were upset with him because of that. I think he tried to reconcile, and I think...

HANNITY: I think if Don Imus said it, you would have called for him to be fired.

SHARPTON: I think it's fair. He took flak for trying to be a reconciling force. And it was Giuliani that stood back, because he didn't see the reconciliation.

HANNITY: What Martin Luther King Jr. said, and I've heard his speech played a number of times today. You know, and his hope and his dream for children of all races to be together. Judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

You know, "Go to hell, white man," this is who Hillary's seeking the endorsement from. And I'm saying in this case, I've got to imagine we've made strides, plenty of good ones, but that's evidence that we've got a long way to go.

SHARPTON: Well, I think again, Reverend Butts went out of his way at a very unpopular time to try to reconcile with Mayor Giuliani. We did not receive that (ph)...

HANNITY: If I said that...

SHARPTON: He's the worst example of divisive. Reverend Butts tried to reconcile with the mayor. I wish the mayor had reached back toward him. I think anyone would say Rev. Butts is a reconcilier.

HANNITY: I've now, for the sixth or seventh year in a row, I emceed the CORE dinner, Congress on Racial Equality. And I -- I asked the audience tonight when I spoke earlier, I said, "Just look around this room." And there were, you know, African-Americans, white Americans, Asian-Americans, Latino-Americans, everyone there. It was a mixed crowd. And it's like, you could see that there has been dramatic progress in a lot of different ways.

Where do you think that we have failed?

SHARPTON: I think we've filed when you look at the fact that there's still the economic gap. Blacks are still doubly unemployed to whites. The education, there's a race gap in terms of how funds are distributed. The health care area, there's still a race gap in America.

Have we made tremendous progress? Absolutely. And I think that we must applaud it, and Martin Luther King Day is a day to recognize that. But it also is that we must continue to close that gap, as he tried to the day he died.

HANNITY: Let me ask you. Why -- this is a source of frustration for me. Bill Clinton, for example, he -- if you ask him who his political mentor was, he mentioned a segregationist, William Fulbright.

If you looked at Bill Clinton when he was president, higher positions of power, he didn't appoint anywhere near as many African-Americans as George W. Bush did.

But yet, it seems that all the outreach of George Bush and Republicans -- Lyndon Johnson needed Republicans to pass the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. All of this new history of Republicans, they can't seem to turn it into votes in the African-American community. Why?

SHARPTON: Because I think they've not addressed the issues of closing the gap. It's not just about putting people in your...

HANNITY: Republicans want choice in school, lower taxes, family values.

SHARPTON: No, but people want equal protection under the law and equal opportunity. And when you address and close those gaps, Sean, that's what people want, not just...

COLMES: Great point. Let me ask you about Martin Luther King. Because, you know, it's interesting to me, is every side likes to claim Martin Luther King for oneself.

SHARPTON: After he died.

COLMES: After he died.

SHARPTON: They weren't claiming him in life.

COLMES: Judge somebody, not by the color of one's skin; by the content of one's character. So conservatives say he would never have been for affirmative action.

But if you look at some of the things King said, and I was watching his speech on the Vietnam War. He said some very prescient things. He said there are those who are seeking to equate dissent with disloyalty, a dark day in our nation when high levels of authority will seek to use every method to silence dissent. Prescient, given what is happening today.

SHARPTON: You're right, Alan. And if you would take even the "I Have a Dream" speech, the body of the speech he talked about America gave blacks a check that has bounced in the bank of justice, marked insufficient funds.

The speech was about how America has not fulfilled its commitment to blacks. He dreamed of a day of harmony. He said we were not there. His last speech, before that, 40 years ago, was he talked about how we had still not closed that gap. So I think people try to pick out of King what they want, and they're not dealing with...

COLMES: It wasn't easy to define him politically. Right? It wasn't -- it wasn't -- he was complex in terms what he believed and what he stood for.

SHARPTON: Well, I think he had some very hard-core conservative values, as most blacks do, but I think he had some very clear progressive political and economic opinions. And that's what...

COLMES: Did you have a relationship with him?

SHARPTON: No, I was too young. I was a little boy when he died.

COLMES: You were preaching on the corners of...

SHARPTON: Yes, I met him a couple of times, I was a little bit. But I was very close -- we're very close with him and his son. And I got to know his wife very well who came to our convention every year that Sean...

COLMES: What's your position on what's happening in the Democratic primary between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama? Is race being infused into this primary to too great of an extent. And who's the guilty party?

SHARPTON: I think there has been excesses on all sides. I think that what -- it bothers me is not race. It's that we're having racial attacks and not real race content.

The debate tonight I heard charges and countercharges. Let's get down to how do we close the gap? How do we guarantee a fair economic and judicial system?

COLMES: Which candidate has it better in terms of that particular debate right now?

SHARPTON: Well, I'm hoping we get the content, which is why I haven't endorsed anyone as of yet.

COLMES: Trying to...

SHARPTON: One of the things -- well, one of the things, talking about King, one of the things I learned from those that were close to King -- Wyatt T. Walker, who chaired my board for years, was his right-hand man -- King never made primary endorsements, because he said, "I want to keep the civil rights agenda out front."

COLMES: All right, Reverend. Thanks for being with us tonight. Appreciate it very much.

WE check in with Greta Van Susteren Greta is standing by to tell us what's coming up right after "Hannity & Colmes."

Good evening, Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "ON THE RECORD": Good evening.

We're in Jacksonville, North Carolina. Extraordinary day. We're going to take the viewers right up to the scene where Maria Lauterbach's remains were found. The investigation is coming on very intensively down here.

Plus an international manhunt for the man they say killed her, buried her, and burned her. We have that and much more, plus there's no evidence, and the viewers will see things they've never seen before.

Back to you.

COLMES: Thank you very much.

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