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December 20, 2007

Romney & MLK; Campaigns Too Long?

Hannity & Colmes

COLMES: Welcome to HANNITY AND COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes. Sitting in for Sean is Mark Stein. Welcome back Mark. Nice to see you.

MARK STEIN, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm never blue when I'm with you, Alan.

COLMES: Already teasing an upcoming segment. We get right to our top story tonight though; we're two weeks away from the Iowa caucuses. There is no shortage of activity on the campaign trail. The polls indicate it's still anybody's game. Meanwhile, the scrutiny of the candidates is getting more and more intense.

Joining us tonight for the fastest two segments in politics, radio talk show host Tammy Bruce, Democratic strategist and Fox News contributor Bob Beckel, and Politico.com's Jonathan Martin.

We start with a story about George Romney, who apparently -- first, a number of times he has talked about how his father -- he saw his father march with Martin Luther King Jr., then did somewhat of a back track and correction today. Let's show the videotape on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I was taught in my home to honor god and love my neighbor. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.

It's a figure of speech. I saw my father as a champion of civil rights. This is a figure of speech. It refers to that figure of speech. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King, noting his great record in fighting for civil rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Jonathan Martin, not only did he not see his father march with Martin Luther King, the "Boston Phoenix," that broke the story, indicated George Romney never actually marched with Martin Luther King. So there seems to be a little problem here, doesn't there?

JONATHAN MARTIN, POLITICO.COM: I think your latter point there, Alan, is the key one. He can perhaps get away with talking about using a figure of speech or a rhetorical device when it comes to seeing his father, but there has still not yet been evidence found that his father did ever march with King. There is no question that George Romney was a champion of civil rights.

Look, this is presidential politics. You have to be very precise in these things. They have not yet brought up evidence showing that Romney did, in fact, march with King at any point in the 1960's. There are no contemporaneous news accounts saying just that.

COLMES: Tammy Bruce, apparently a spokesperson for Romney earlier today said, well, it was a similar event, but a different time, a different place. Yet they somehow marched together. I can't somehow connect these dots without my head exploding.

TAMMY BRUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, listen, we have learned a lot about Romney; he gets fantasies and then they become a reality to him. It's not exactly what we need in the White House. He also, I believe, was in France doing his missionary work, so he was actually on another continent during the same period of time. It really reveals the nature of this guy.

COLMES: During a Grosse Pointe, Michigan appearance by Martin Luther King. That's right. George Romney wasn't there. Mitt Romney wasn't even in the country.

Let's move forward here, as we give you the fastest couple of segments in politics. ABC News reporting that Bill Clinton launching Obama attack websites, and the Clinton campaign registering names of two websites that they are saying -- there they are -- attacking Obama. What's actually going on here? The Clinton camp says Obama has his own site called HillaryAttacksBarackObama.com, categorizing criticisms Clinton has made about the Illinois senator.

I believe we have some Hillary video here and we're seeing some of that now. Bob Beckel, is that an unfair attack? Are they grasping at straws now to attack Hillary Clinton on anything they can come up with?

BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: First, of all these two websites, they use that as an excuse. Barack Obama has a website that outlines the attacks on him. She has two websites that are attacking Barack Obama. That's an entirely different situation. You would think after the issue in New Hampshire with Shaheen and after a couple other issues, like this attacking Obama, they are in a deep pit with a shovel. The idea is to take the shovel and put it away and stop digging, because I think it hurts them.

STEIN: Tom Tancredo dropped out of the race today, Jonathan, the big scourge of illegal immigration. He has thrown himself in front of a moving Huck. He wants to stop Huckabee in Iowa. Does his six points toss to Romney change the outline of the Iowa race?

MARTIN: I think it remains to be seen whether or not Tancredo can actually move any votes. I was there today at that press conference. You're exactly right, Mark. He got behind Romney because he does fear the rise of Huckabee here in Iowa. He has a solid core of support. I'm not sure that that's transferable, but there is two weeks left. If Tancredo does implore his folks to get behind Romney, in a small turnout race, every little bit helps. So it could be helpful to Romney.

STEIN: Let's get back to good old negative stuff. The "New York Post," Tammy, had a story today about Anthony Rodham being a deadbeat dad. He owes 75,000 dollars to his ex-wife. If you can't keep track of the Clinton brothers, this is a guy we last heard from I think six or seven years ago when he was involved in a hazelnut scam in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia, which is not an order of words one has cause to use terribly often.

Is Clinton fatigue already setting in early, Tammy?

BRUCE: I think we had Clinton fatigue quite a while ago. This is obviously Rodham family values. You have the Boxer family, which has yet to say anything. But Nicole married this fellow, I think, pretty much knowing what she was getting. She knew who her sister-in-law was and the nature of that marriage. I don't think anybody should be surprised.

Also, at the same time, of course, the Boxer family is not suffering. They are not living in report of. Some people might argue that that's a heck of a lot of money to be arguing to pay someone for alimony when they are doing moderately well themselves. That's a whole another argument.

But, you know, this isn't good for Hillary's campaign. I do think it speaks about the Rodham family itself. I think it reflects on her just like Hillary's husband reflects on her. It's not good, neither one of them.

STEIN: It makes you wonder, Bob, if they are such smart campaigners - - this is 75,000 dollars. Couldn't the Clinton campaign have settled all this quietly when the campaign got going before it all became public?

BECKEL: I'm still getting over the nuts in Georgia. The answer to your question is you legally can't do that. The other point here is this is much ado about nothing. Everybody has known about Rodham from the beginning. This guy has been a problem. If you had every sibling who caused a problem for a candidate for president to cause a real problem, you wouldn't have any candidates for president.

There is always one, you know? I don't think it means anything.

STEIN: Tammy, how about this celebrity endorsement business? We had a big thing about Oprah endorsing Obama. It turns out not only does it mean nothing, but twice as many people are less likely to vote for Obama, according to one poll, since he got endorsed by Oprah. Presumably Alan must have endorsed Tom Tancredo and his numbers went south.

COLMES: That's how much power I have, mark. Thank you very much.

BRUCE: When you look at it, we need to call him Barack Winfrey now. That gives you a sense of the depth or the lack thereof with Barack Obama. I was saying this for many weeks now since that first happened here on Fox, is that it's one thing to be looking to celebrities for light entertainment, for an escape during the hot political season, but Americans, especially after September 11th, take the future very seriously. We realize the next day, tomorrow is not guaranteed.

We aren't going to look to Oprah Winfrey to save our families. That's not the role she plays.

(CROSS TALK)

STEIN: Mike Huckabee is taking a stand on an unexpected topic, Jamie Lynn Spears, and the 16-year-old's pregnancy. The second half of the fastest two segments in politics is up next.

Also tonight, the architect says this presidential race is a mess. We'll look at why Karl Rove says we'll regret the way this race is being conducted.

Plus, the Reverend Rick Warren joins us with some very special holiday tidings, up next on HANNITY AND COLMES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEIN: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. John McCain receives a ringing endorsement from Henry Kissinger. Now two new polls show that he is on the rise. Rasmussen Reports' latest New Hampshire poll shows Mitt Romney holding steady at 31 percent, with McCain rising to 27 percent support. No other candidate appears to be within striking distance. The CNN/WMUR New Hampshire primary poll paints a similar picture, with McCain over-taking Rudy Giuliani.

We continue now with our panel. Jonathan, can McCain pull off a double and win in 2008 in New Hampshire, as he did in 2000?

MARTIN: I think it's very possible. I think the polls you say -- certainly have some good news for McCain there. Look, his presidential hopes lie in New Hampshire. That's where he has got to get a victory on January 8th. If he can, that may really change the equation of this campaign.

If he comes up short, that is probably going to be the end of his aspirations.

STEIN: There has also been a couple of movements in the national polls, where Rudy Giuliani held the lead. It now looks as if that is much more fluid than Giuliani thought. Is Rudy, in fact, Bob, on the verge of a meltdown here?

BECKEL: I'd say not only the verge of a meltdown but the water is getting hotter every minute. Look, one of the things you're seeing from all this is this whole field is backing up to John McCain. They have taken a look at the field. They have looked at Rudy Giuliani and his gun-slinger attitude. They have looked at the rest of them. By the way, I don't know about the rest of you, but I was just at the edge of my seat waiting to see who Tancredo was going to endorse. It was such a big deal.

Let's put it this way, John McCain I think is going to win New Hampshire. I have said this for the last four or five months, when you look at this field as a whole, they are nothing, and John McCain is something. John McCain is the one person we fear more than anybody else.

STEIN: Tammy, Rudy had this kind of 1-800-national strategy. He didn't want to bother with Iowa, didn't want to bother with New Hampshire, South Carolina. You're a Rudy supporter.

BRUCE: I am.

STEIN: Why didn't that work out for him?

BRUCE: Well, you know, I think this has always been a horse race. It's not as though he didn't not care about those states. He did, but he is running for a national position. The truth of the matter is when you're looking at what Americans are responding to -- and this is -- the McCain situation is interesting. The Lieberman endorsement did help him a lot, but remember, it is illegal immigration which remains the bigger issue here, and I do think that Rudy, when it comes to certain issues, perhaps there was high expectations for him. He met some of those, not necessarily all of them.

But when it comes right down to it, when you're in there voting, you are going to think about who is going to take this nation to the future? Who is going to be better on the boarders than someone like John McCain or frankly even at team work? You have a Giuliani-McCain ticket discussion that has been going on. That could really appeal to Americans across the board. This race isn't over.

Just because Giuliani's lead is a little bit less doesn't mean he is tanking, by any means.

STEIN: Here is an interesting thing. One of these polls, Bob, shows McCain even sneaking up in Iowa. That suggests it's not just New Hampshire looking for a Huckabee alternative.

BECKEL: It's also happening in South Carolina. Look, Tammy, not much. Rudy Giuliani went from 50 percent plus in the polls about 90 days ago; now he is down to 20 percent. I don't know what you call that except for a meltdown.

COLMES: We move forward here. Two names I never thought I would see in the same sentence, Mike Huckabee and Jamie Lynn Spears. Here is Mike Huckabee commenting on -- he will not condemn her. How that will sit with his far right constituency? He says, "it is a tragedy when a 16-year-old is not really prepared for the responsibilities of adult life." He says, she is not making the right decisions. She is, actually, to have the child. He is actually applauding her for having the child.

Let's take a look here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a tragedy when a 16- year-old who is not really prepared for all the responsibilities of adult life is going to be now faced with the responsibilities of honest to goodness adult life. I respect that apparently she is going to have the child. I think that's the right decision and a good decision. I respect that and appreciate it.

I hope it's not an encouragement to other 16-year-olds to think that that's the best course of action. But at the same time I'm not going to condemn her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: Jonathan martin, does that set the right tone for Mike Huckabee?

MARTIN: My question is, who actually asked Mike Huckabee that question? With all that is facing the world and the country right now, we are going to ask a presidential candidate, a guy who actually may win the nomination, about some pop culture triviality.

COLMES: I'm impressed that he knew who she was.

MARTIN: Huckabee gave a good answer. He is very good off the cuff. Obviously he encouraged her to keep the child because he is pro-life and a lot of his supporters are pro-life. In that sense, that was the right answer.

COLMES: You know, Bob Kerrey apologized to Barack Obama because he talked about he is glad his name is Barack Hussein Obama, that his father was a Muslim, that his maternal grandmother was a Muslim.

(CROSS TALK)

COLMES: Enough said. He went to a secular madrassa, which is an oxymoron, if I've ever heard one. So, Bob Beckel, he says he is sorry. He didn't mean it. He realizes now he was using the narrative that the far right uses to denounce Barack Obama. by using all those key phrases. What was he thinking?

BECKEL: First of all, I believe Bob Kerrey if he says it was a mistake. But every time they make a mistake in the Clinton operation, they repeat it by sending letters of apology. You get the same issue all over again. By the way, Mark, can we get this right. I know you're from another place, but it's not Obama. It's Obama.

COLMES: Very quickly, there's a poll out there, who is smarter, Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton? We'll put that up very quickly on the screen. I think most people said Hillary Clinton smarter than Bill Clinton. What do you make of that, Tammy Bruce?

BRUCE: I think if she was carrying around a Tide To Go pen throughout the time they were in the White House, she would have been the smarter one. But she didn't. So I think, just by default, Bill Clinton becomes the smarter one.

COLMES: You're saying the woman should do the cooking and cleaning, Tammy? Is that your point?

BRUCE: No, I think if you're married to Bill Clinton, you need to make sure you can get stains out where they don't belong.

COLMES: I see, good to revisit all the golden oldies. Bob Beckel, nice to hear that one again.

BECKEL: Leave it up to Tammy to make that point. What else can you say after that? I will just let it go.

COLMES: Nothing, we just end the segment. That's what we do. We thank you all very much for being with us.

Coming up, former Bush architect Karl Rove blasts the presidential selection process, saying it needs a complete overhaul. Michael Barone will tackle his controversial remarks.

Later tonight, it looks like another case of discrimination because of skin tone, except this man isn't claiming racism. The unbelievable story of a man who turned himself blue coming up on HANNITY & COLMES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROVE: I'm not sure, incidentally, that this is helpful for the country, for this to be settled so quickly. This process ought to be spread out over time, in my opinion, because it allows more people to participate, more people in the country to develop a deeper understanding of who the candidates are, and for the people of America to make a more considered judgment.

This thing is happening so quick on so many different battle fronts that I'm not certain, regardless of who makes the -- who bet on the right strategy, there is going to be a bandwagon effect, no. National reputation is going to count. No matter which way that works out, I'm not certain that is necessarily in the best interests of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLMES: That is former Bush adviser Karl Rove criticizing the presidential election process. Rove is calling for the seemingly endless march to the Oval Office to be streamlined. The former chief of staff outlines what he calls a more effective way to select the next president. Rove calls for a shorter campaign period with a longer primary season. He says this would allow the voters to make a far more informed decision about who they support and why.

With us now "U.S. News and World Report" senior writer Robert Barone. It's interesting, he's calling for a shorter primary season, but yet a longer period of time to get to know the candidates. It's kind of interesting how he puts that.

ROBERT BARONE, "US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Well, Alan, there is no way you can really control the length of the primary season. It's a free country and candidates are going to announce when they want to. He pointed to the 1992 cycle when you didn't have many candidates announcing early. Bill Clinton announced, I believe, in October '91, but that's because George H.W. Bush didn't seem to have strong opposition, either in the Democratic party or his own Republican party.

You can't control that. I think Karl Rove is absolutely right to say when you have a situation -- we're going to have 32 states vote in 33 days. That is more than half the country will have an opportunity to vote or participate in caucuses during those days.

COLMES: That is really what he is talking about, the fact you have 32 states -- in 2000, Iowa kicked off seven races in five weeks. Here you have 32 states. There is no way you can do any kind of retail politics in that kind of situation.

BARONE: You can do retail politics in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, some places like that. Obviously this is the result of letting the party set the rules and letting the states free to legislate primary dates when they want to.

I think Karl Rove here is a little bit responsible in part himself. In 2000, when George W. Bush was nominated, some delegates at the Republican National Convention brought forward a Delaware Plan, which would set four voting days, with the 12 smallest states voting first. Then a month later the 13 next largest states and so forth.

That has some advantages and disadvantages. The first states voting wouldn't include any from the south. But Rove and Bush finally said no, it's not going to come up. The Republican National Committee sets the rules for the Republican party for the next four years. So if we are going to depend on the parties to change the rules, the Republican National Convention has to have that.

COLMES: It's interesting also, if we have a really early nominee, and there is a long time between that and the convention -- this is part of what Rove points out -- Anybody -- the runner can stumble anywhere along the line here. They may be stuck, either party, with a candidate that, by the time the convention comes, they may not want.

BARONE: Some said that might have been the case for Democrats in 2004. John Kerry basically secured the nomination on March 4th, I believe the date was. But I think, contrary to what Karl Rove says in the "Wall Street Journal" today and on your program, I think Congress has to step in here. We have had 34 years or more of experimentation by the states and the parties, and the result has been the system we have here.

I think Congress has the Constitutional power to regulate presidential elections and that it needs to act on a bipartisan basis because both parties have to be satisfied with the result.

STEIN: Michael, isn't it the case that Karl Rove's solutions are pretty lame, though? This idea of regional primaries. I mean, if you have the Mountain States or New England voting en masse on a particular day, you aren't going to get a lot of retail politics that way either. Are you? I mean, basically anything other than Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina kills retail politics.

BARONE: Well, Mark, you have got to disclose that you're a New Hampshire resident.

STEIN: Exactly. I like to see presidents in diners.

BARONE: At the moment, your taste for presidents in diners or presidential candidates is being indulged arguably at the expense of the rest of the country. I think you could work out a way in which you can have random variation, which you can have small states and large states, which would give candidates a choice of where to go about their retail politicking and demonstrate their acceptability to people.

Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, and Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan have been urging such a system. I think they are on the right track. I have been looking at my Constitution for the section that says Iowa and New Hampshire come first. I haven't been able to find it yet. If you know where it is, Mark, let me know.

STEIN: Come on, Michael. Basically, the New Hampshire electorate has been trained over 50 years to become -- nobody likes our state. We're not known -- we're not bucolic like next door Vermont. Having trained the voters in New Hampshire to put up with this for half a century, wouldn't it be better just to say we accept Iowa and New Hampshire's primary. There is no point training up a couple of other states instead?

BARONE: Well, I hold the view that Iowa and New Hampshire should not be uniquely privileged, and even if they have evolved some Pavlovian responses, it behooves us to give other states a chance. And I think Congress is going to have to step in and do this. One problem is any member of Congress who wants to run for president doesn't want to antagonize Iowa and New Hampshire. And there are a lot of members of Congress, particularly the Senate, who would like to run for president someday.

STEIN: Just quickly, Michael, what's wrong with long campaigns?

BARONE: Well, long campaigns, as Karl Rove makes the argument, they are subject to the press and people turning on them and so forth. I think that, you know, long campaigns put too much focus on short-term political gain.

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