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November 01, 2007

Huckabee's Hour With Charlie Rose

Charlie Rose

CHARLIE ROSE, HOST: Welcome to the broadcast. Tonight, the first episode of our special edition series, "The Candidates."

This is an ongoing discussion with each of candidates in the 2008 election. We begin tonight with former governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee. He is running for the Republican nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE: The presidency, so frequently as we`ve seen in history, is about character, not about positions. How do we know about Mike Huckabee`s character?

FORMER GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE (R), ARKANSAS: Well, probably the best thing is to ask those people who really know me. You know, not my political opponents, not my critics. Because there are plenty of those, and they`ll tell you that I`m probably responsible for everything from the Kennedy assassination to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby and the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

But talk to the people, my school teachers, the people who have worked with me in my inner circle.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what do you hope they`ll say about you?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I think they`ll say that, like anybody, I`ve got my flaws, but I have convictions. I`m a principled person. I`m consistent. And that I truly, genuinely care about people, and that I have a desire to see things work. I think that`s what they would say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE: Episode one of "The Candidates" with Mike Huckabee, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHARLIE ROSE: Tonight, a CHARLIE ROSE special edition, "The Candidates."

Tonight, we launch a new CHARLIE ROSE special edition series. It is called "The Candidates." Over the next three months, we`ll engage the leading candidates in conversation about their lives and their vision for the country. We will also talk about where they stand on important domestic and foreign policy issues. We want to know of each of them what are the five most important things they want to do if they get to the White House. Most importantly we want to know about character.

We open our series with Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee. He was the former governor of Arkansas and a former Southern Baptist minister. He was considered a long shot, but is now gaining increasing notice. His poll numbers are rising in Iowa. He shows charm and ease on the campaign trail. He has performed well in recent debates.

His views on social issues make him attractive to evangelical conservatives. As a former governor, he has executive experience. As a former preacher, he is a good communicator.

He is also getting favorable press coverage. "The New York Times" David Brooks recently wrote that Huckabee is, quote, "as good a campaigner as anybody running for president this year."

The other former candidate from Arkansas, Bill Clinton, has said Huckabee is the only GOP dark horse that has any kind of chance.

Huckabee also has a compelling personal story. Born to working-class parents, he was the first in his family to graduate from high school and attend college. He then served as a Southern Baptist minister for 16 years.

When you talk to him today, you can see how religion has influenced his life and his views. From 1993 to 1996, he served as lieutenant governor of Arkansas. In 1998, he was elected governor, winning the largest percentage of a vote ever by a Republican. In 2002, he was reelected to another four-year term.

After being diagnosed with diabetes in 2002, he lost over 100 pounds and championed better health initiatives in his home state.

Huckabee has many more hurdles to face if he is to rise further and capture the Republican nomination. Despite the increased attention, he has not raised as much money as the leading candidates, Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, and fear that he cannot beat the leading Democratic candidates, especially Senator Clinton, continues to persist in some quarters.

But so does Governor Huckabee. Tonight, I`m pleased to have him at this table for episode one of our special edition series, "The Candidates."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me about growing up in Arkansas, being born in Hope, Arkansas, and how you ended up first as a minister, then a failed politician, then lieutenant governor, then governor, and now a presidential candidate.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I was raised in the small town of Hope, Arkansas, down in the southwest corner. Like a lot of Southern kids, I grew up not that far from poverty, though I didn`t know it at the time. I literally, from my mother`s side of the family, one generation away from dirt floors and outdoor toilets.

On my father`s side of the family, Charlie, I was the first male in my entire family lineage to graduate from high school.

CHARLIE ROSE: High school.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes, from high school, much less go on to college.

And like so many kids, my parents would basically do anything possible to get me a better life than them. They wanted me to have an education. They wanted me to succeed. They knew how hard their life had been. And they did not want their children to have to live as hard as they had experienced. Not just from the depression, when they were children, but also even as adults, just struggling to be able to barely pay the rent.

So I learned a lot of things about hard work and discipline. Boy, did I learn discipline.

CHARLIE ROSE: What role did religion play?

MIKE HUCKABEE: In my life, it played a pretty important role, because it was foundational to my basic principles and underpinnings.

A lot of it was the subtle influences. For example, to this day, I remember when I was in Sunday school as a 6-year-old, this little sign on the wall in our Sunday school, six words -- plan your work; right under it -- work your plan.

And you know, it`s a little slogan, it`s catchy. But for some reason -- I didn`t understand it when I was 6 years old, but it was embedded into my memory. As I grew older, it made perfect sense, that before you do something, you plan out what you`re going to do. And once you`ve planned it, then you have to execute the plan.

I`m an obsessive compulsive list maker, to the point that I make them for my children, and I make them for my staff and I make them for everybody. I always have a list going on with what I`m going to do and get it done.

And it goes back to the understanding of plan your work; work your plan. So it had an influence. It also had an influence on me in the sense of giving me this perspective that my accountability in life was not just to other people. But that even when people`s eyes could no longer see me, God still could. And that I need to be conscious that my ultimate life work would not be evaluated by the people who didn`t really know what I did or failed to do, but by an all-knowing, encompassing God who did. And it gave me this sense of I think greater level of responsibility that I might not have had otherwise.

CHARLIE ROSE: Married when you were 18?

MIKE HUCKABEE: When I was 18. We were just a couple of months shy of our 19th birthdays.

I started work when I was 14. And so by the time I was 18, I mean, I had several years of work. I was paying my way through college. I was working 40 hours a week at a radio station, and getting through college in two years and three months. Not because I was smart, but because I couldn`t afford to stay there four years. It was costing me a lot to go. And as a result, I think that that sense of, again, duty and responsibility -- it never occurred to me that I was too young to get married. Seemed like a perfectly normal thing to do.

CHARLIE ROSE: Why did you want to be a preacher?

MIKE HUCKABEE: You know, I really wanted to go into Christian broadcasting. And then, I had a real sort of an awakening, a deep sort of spiritual experience at age 15, in which I really started understanding that I had a lot greater responsibility than just going to church. That it really was about my life and its direction and my inner soul, not just the external behavior. That`s when my life really turned at age 15, almost just -- almost to the age of 16.

From that point, I thought, well, OK. I really want this faith to be something that is all-encompassing in my life, but I`m in broadcasting. So it made perfect sense to go into some type of religious broadcasting. That is where I thought I was headed. And so I had went to -- I finished college and went on to seminary, with the anticipation of doing that.

And I did communications. Advertising, public relations, I wrote, did television and radio, all in that context.

I backed into the pastorate by this church in Pine Grove, Arkansas inviting me to come speak, and then asking me would I come back and speak some more.

CHARLIE ROSE: You were a pretty good speaker.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I guess good enough to be invited back.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right.

MIKE HUCKABEE: And so, then they asked me why don`t you be the interim pastor, because their pastor had left. And I said, OK, I can do that. And after about four months, they said, "just stay." And I did, for six years.

And then another church in Texarkana, Arkansas, asked me to come and be their pastor.

In both of the cases, we established local community television channels, so I had the best of both worlds. I was able to fulfill my spiritual calling to do Christian ministry, but I also was very involved in broadcasts from radio and television and all sorts of things that I was getting to do, in the context of a local community and a local church.

It was at the sort of height of all of that that I was elected president of our state`s Baptist convention. But from that position, people started saying, you know, have you ever thought about running for office? Have you ever thought about getting involved in politics? Well, the truth is, I had thought about it. I loved politics.

CHARLIE ROSE: Did they say that because you were well known or did they say that because you had political skills?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I think both. There was a certain level of notoriety that went with the position, but they saw certain political skills that I was employing in that particular capacity. And quite frankly, when people say has it been a big jump from the Baptist world to politics? I say, you know, the toughest politics I have ever faced was in a Baptist church. It`s really just about true. So it hasn`t been that big of a jump.

But as I really contemplate it, the defining moment for me was as I thought about who was making public policy. I came to the conclusion that a lot of people that were making it had no clue how real people lived.

And the one thing that the pastorate had done for me that was so very important, significant, and frankly so very critical for me now as I run for president, I saw life at a level no one else sees. I saw life from literally the cradle to the grave, everything in between. And it got to be where -- and this is true for virtually any minister in America -- there`s no social pathology in our world today that I couldn`t put a name and a face to. A 14-year-old girl that`s pregnant and hadn`t told her parents. You know who she talked to? She talked to me. That young couple who`s incredibly over their head in debt and don`t know if they can hold their marriage together because of the tensions and struggles -- I talked to those people.

CHARLIE ROSE: Have the tenants of what you learned, practiced, believed in and talked about at that time before you ran for public office, changed? Any of those views, evangelical, Baptist, conservative views changed?

MIKE HUCKABEE: My own views?

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.

MIKE HUCKABEE: They`ve broadened, they have matured, they`ve seasoned, but they haven`t changed. In fact, if anything, I think I believe in those basic principles more than I`ve ever believed in them before, that every life has value, that every human being has an equal worth to each -- to every other human being, that nobody is better than another, that -- and the darkest person that you think is the dregs of society, there are qualities underneath that exterior. And in the best people, the ones you think are just as close to perfect, you see what I knew from having dealt with those folks in their painful moments was that there`s a dark side to everybody. And that there are struggles and intense battles that go on even in the best of people.

It really gave me a perspective about life that was so very life-changing, if you will, and if anything, the convictions about there`s a right, there`s a wrong, there`s a God. He loves us. He has got a plan for us. Those basic tenants are more a part of my life than ever.

CHARLIE ROSE: Some people look at the conflicts within evangelical Christians or within the Baptist church, for example, and say, on the one hand, it`s about a God of fear and on the other there is a God of hope. These are simple divisions. On one hand, it`s a God who believes, as Jesus did about the poor, and that the role and the mission of the church is to deal to suffering and pain. And the other looks at it and says you`ve got to preach hell and damnation, and you have to talk about abortion, you have to talk about a whole range of social issues. Where are you?

MIKE HUCKABEE: What I would want to say on that is that, to the basic question, when people say "do you think God is a God of judgment or is he a God of hope?" I have come to the conclusion that God is so big, nobody can put him in that simple a box.

The great thing about God is, I can`t outthink him, I can`t outknow him.

A wonderful book by J.B. Phillips called "Your God is Too Small." Great book that I read when I was a teenager, and it really just reminded me that some of us have the problem of defining God in terms that we can define. And Charlie, when we do that, we have a God that is just way too small than the real one.

CHARLIE ROSE: You also say this: C.S. Lewis` book was the most influential book. Why was that the most influential book?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Because he was a powerful intellectual, and yet -- coming from the position of a staunch agnostic, and then becoming a very, very devout and articulate believer, I felt that he was one of the leading people that helped to say that you don`t have to sacrifice your intellect to become a believer.

There`s almost this mentality that if you are a Christian, you must be kind of simple-minded, kind of a nut. And you really just don`t accept big things in life, and you kind of have to feel sorry for those people that need a life so simple that they can define it in these God terms.

C.S. Lewis said no, no, no, you don`t have to give up your intellect. In fact, the true intellectual will have to make room for God, because there has to be some explanation for the inexplicable. And it was such a refreshing kind of (inaudible) book...

CHARLIE ROSE: And that was influential, the idea that you have to have some explanation for the inexplicable? The idea that I can`t prove God and I have no way to prove God, and I only have to take it on faith and to know that something is inexplicable and God may be the only explanation.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Again, I want to make sure I understand, yes. There`s that sense in which faith gives me that ability to fill in the gaps that I`ll never be able to fill in with my own human capacity.

CHARLIE ROSE: That leads us obviously to the questions of creationism.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I believe God created the heavens and the Earth. I believe he created us. Now, what I don`t really know is how he did it, in the intricate manner.

I think some people get all wrapped up, OK, was it, did he take the rib out of Adam? Did he make it like -- I have no reason to believe he didn`t. But I don`t know.

CHARLIE ROSE: Are you by definition rejecting Charles Darwin?

MIKE HUCKABEE: If Darwin...

CHARLIE ROSE: Most scientists, as you know...

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes. A lot of scientists, though, have kind of revised Darwin. Darwin`s real theory of true random selection, the idea that things just on their own get better and better. If that were true, then we should not fear global warming; we should embrace it, because it`s the natural result of an ever-changing environment, as we live in this world. Now, there is sort of a little intellectual dishonesty going on...

CHARLIE ROSE: They would actually say something different to that. They would say that the problems of global warming were created by man, not some evolution, but in fact created by men.

MIKE HUCKABEE: But it`s still is a result of the processes in this world that are ever-changing, and it`s survival of the fittest. So whatever is going to survive will do so because it`s the fittest. In the purest form of Darwinism...

CHARLIE ROSE: Do you believe the planet is in peril or not?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Oh, I think it is. And I do think that we have some great responsibility. I`m one of the Republicans who is a conservationist and believe that we ought to be on the forefront of talking about -- again, I don`t want to argue the inner points of global warming, because some scientists say, well, we`ve had global cooling, now we have global warming. We may have global cooling again.

One thing we all should agree on, this Earth is a great gift. This Earth is a wonderful treasure, and we have no right to abuse it. We have no right to destroy it and to act with disregard for future generations, and we ought to take care of it and be good stewards and managers, and leave it in better shape for the next generation.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, but let me just stay with creationism for a second. Because there`s evolution and then -- I just had here Craig Venter, who was one of the guys who mapped the human genome. You know, if you look at that, it`s straight out of -- I mean, Darwin had it pretty well.

MIKE HUCKABEE: There were a lot of things. In fact, I read...

CHARLIE ROSE: And the mapping of the human genome and what we`re learning from molecular biology is a strong reinforcement to...

MIKE HUCKABEE: To at least the part of Darwinism that says that there are changes that are going on, and that there`s a direct connection from the past to the future. You know, Francis Collins, who is the...

CHARLIE ROSE: (inaudible) book that you admire.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Right. And I love that book. And a lot of people are surprised, because he is not only an evangelical Christian, but he`s also a very I mean, I guess adamant evolutionist, but from a theological standpoint. I found his book very enthralling and I thought it was interesting, because he did not see that it was necessary to separate the science that he believed in and the faith that he also embraced.

CHARLIE ROSE: Here is the problem that many people have about this. They say when you start about -- talking about teaching intellectual design in the school, intelligent design in the school, versus teaching evolution, one is a theology, creationism, and one is a science. And you don`t compare the two.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Here is what I think needs to be remembered. In an education system, you know, my kids went to public schools. They were exposed to the teachings of evolution. Did it make them believe less in God? I don`t think so. But at the same time, I want them to understand that while there`s a strong body of science that really can put forth the argument for an evolutionary process, be it God-started or otherwise, there`s also, I think, room for believing that there was a mover, a prime mover in the move, that there was a God, a genius, an intellect far above ours that could weave this design into place.

CHARLIE ROSE: But that`s theology, not science.

MIKE HUCKABEE: That is. But it`s one of those things -- Francis Collins would say that when you trace science back to the point you can`t get at any further, the only explanation for science then becomes God.

CHARLIE ROSE: All right. There`s this, finally, moving from religion to other issues -- there is this: Separation of church and state. Early Baptists -- Madison, Jefferson, Virginia Bill of Religious Rights, was about the separation of church and state. Are you, A, with them in terms of the essential nature of America to separate church and state?

MIKE HUCKABEE: As they understood it, absolutely. Because when Thomas Jefferson wrote the letter in 1814 to the Danbury Baptist Association up in Danbury, Connecticut, where the first time this phrase ever surfaced -- it`s not in the Constitution, it`s not in the Bill of Rights, it`s not in the Declaration of Independence. The first time that phrase, "separation of church and state," ever showed up was in that letter to the Danbury Baptist Association. And he wrote it, and his context and premises was the Baptists were all up in arms. They thought that the government was about to impose a state religion. They were so adamantly opposed to that, because they wanted there to be freedom of religion, so that people could worship any way they wanted to and not have the government dictate, this is the official church of the United States. So they were in an uproar, and Jefferson wrote the letter to say, no, the First Amendment is very clear. There`s this wall of separation.

Now, look at it in its context. What he said was the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was never to restrict individuals. It was to restrict government. It`s not to say Charlie Rose can`t believe or practice, it`s to say the government can`t impose a restriction or a preference on Charlie Rose or Mike Huckabee.

CHARLIE ROSE: Or should support any particular religion.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Exactly. No to ever create something that would be the official religion of the state. So that government is basically hands off, you know. If you want to practice yours, fine. If you want to practice another, feel free, go at it.

CHARLIE ROSE: How do you feel when policy intrudes on an issue like -- because of religious principals -- stem cell research, which you are opposed to federal support of stem cell research...

MIKE HUCKABEE: Embryonic. Only embryonic.

CHARLIE ROSE: I know. Embryonic. But what`s the issue for you on stem cell research?

MIKE HUCKABEE: That`s an issue larger than just religion. The real question for those of us who are intensely pro-life is that if you create a life, an embryo, for the sole purpose of research and then eventually its destruction, it`s problematic. Now, I know that it`s going to be, oh my gosh, that`s so Neanderthal to some, but just...

CHARLIE ROSE: Because these are embryos that are in fact being thrown away. I mean, these are...

MIKE HUCKABEE: In some cases, that is correct.

CHARLIE ROSE: Does it worry you that there are people who, if stem cell research were proceeding along faster because of government support, and this is the reason that conservatives have changed, as you well know, including Mrs. Reagan, including a whole range of different conservatives, that advancements on a whole range of issues, whether it`s Alzheimer`s -- Mrs. Reagan`s passion -- or whether it`s Parkinson`s or whether it`s a range of other issues -- that advancements that might save lives and make lives better are being impeded.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Would never want to impede, but I also would argue that I think that there`s a real body of science that would say that we`re years and years away from saying that embryonic stem cells by federal funding is just on the verge of finding the cure for Parkinson`s or Alzheimer`s.

In the meantime, let`s accelerate the manner of research that may lead to it that doesn`t have to be controversial.

The one thing we should agree on, and it`s the same whether it`s global warming -- often, we get lost in these political debates that are based on winners and losers and where we disagree over this part of it. When this part of it, we agree.

Let`s find a cure for Alzheimer`s. Let`s find a cure for diabetes. Let`s find a cure for Alzheimer`s disease. Let`s find a way to stop the cancers that so devastate so many people. We agree on that. And I just find sometimes, within the political environment, we camp out on where we disagree, and what we need to do is rather than put our agreements aside so we can fight over the disagreements -- you know, the smart policy would be to put aside the areas where we disagree and to camp out on the areas where we don`t have any disagreement.

For example, should we take better care of the Earth? Does anybody disagree with that? Should we find cures for Alzheimer`s and Parkinson`s? Does anybody disagree with that? Those are issues that can bring us together, and that is what is so desperately needed in this political environment that has become so incredibly polarized.

CHARLIE ROSE: I want to get to all of that, but let me stay with you as governor.

MIKE HUCKABEE: OK.

CHARLIE ROSE: Here is what they say in Arkansas about you. Some Republicans are not happy, as you know, even though you were elected...

MIKE HUCKABEE: Those are a few.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, a few. But here is what they say about you. Clearly pro-life in a strong, emphatic way. Pro-gun ownership. In fact, is proud of the fact that he has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. And does his wife? Am I right about that?

MIKE HUCKABEE: She has a permit as well. Yes.

CHARLIE ROSE: Why is that?

MIKE HUCKABEE: First of all, I think the Second Amendment is one of the most misunderstood part of the Bill of Rights. You know, we always embrace the First Amendment, and people talk about freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press -- I know it`s near and dear to your soul. The Second Amendment is...

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, it is. And yours, too I hope.

MIKE HUCKABEE: It is. Absolutely, it is. But the Second Amendment is just as precious and as integral a part of the Bill of Rights as the First.

CHARLIE ROSE: The right to bear arms.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Right to bear arms. And here`s what -- it`s not about hunting; it`s about our freedom. It`s about protecting ourselves, our families, our...

CHARLIE ROSE: You don`t car what they have as long as -- you`ll take the laws as they are now, and that`s enough for you. You are with -- one with the NRA. Any quarrels with the NRA positions on anything at all?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Not that I can think of.

CHARLIE ROSE: Exactly.

MIKE HUCKABEE: None that I can think of.

CHARLIE ROSE: So pro-life, pro-gun control. Separation of church and state, you are in favor of that. When it got to spending, here is what they said about you. This guy is a evangelical Christian. He is the governor. He loves to spend money on the arts -- surprise, surprise. He wants to spend money -- he is a spender and he`s a taxer. That`s the way they describe you in terms of some of the stories.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I raised -- I didn`t sign all the taxes I`m accused of. I did lead an effort to raise taxes on fuel to rebuild our road systems, because we needed roads. We had the worst roads in America, according to "Truckers" magazine. Five years later, we had the most improved roads. And guess what happened? We created 40,000 jobs. We invested $1 billion in our economy, and we improved the infrastructure.

When we see bridges collapse and people stuck in traffic all day...

CHARLIE ROSE: As we have seen last (ph) year (ph).

MIKE HUCKABEE: ... people say, why didn`t we build our roads? You know what, nobody said that about Mike Huckabee, because we built our roads and fixed our bridges.

CHARLIE ROSE: They think -- here is a guy who has all the evangelical lifestyle issues that we believe in, yet we`re not sure how he feels about spending and taxing.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I can tell you. I think taxes ought to be lower. I think spending ought to be controlled.

But Charlie, let me be very clear, because if this is a deal breaker for some Republicans, let them get over it. When it comes down to whether if you`ve got a child who is asthmatic and he`s down on the hospital steps and he can`t breathe, you know what, I want that kid to get into that hospital. And so if they want to attack me for doing the first really major children`s health initiative, the Our Kids First, to insure those kids and gave kids who didn`t have health insurance the capacity to get it, a program very similar to what state employees had -- if that`s the worst thing they can find out about me, that I made it possible for an 8-year-old to get heart surgery, I am guilty.

CHARLIE ROSE: Here is what they might want to know.

MIKE HUCKABEE: OK.

CHARLIE ROSE: Where is it that you think that this country, in its obligation to its citizens, as you poetically painted the picture of somebody suffering, needs to spend more money? (inaudible) source of revenue?

MIKE HUCKABEE: You know what, it`s not more; it`s different.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Here`s why. Our health care system: The reason that our budget is so strain is not the military budget; it`s the expenditures on health. Seventeen percent of our GDP is spent on health in this country. 3.8 percent of GDP is spent on military, including the war in Iraq.

Now, of that 17 percent, nearly 80 percent of it is spent on chronic disease. It`s the number one challenge we face. That is what is driving the Medicare and the Medicaid budget. It`s what`s driving the health care budget.

Now, here`s what needs to happen. The reason we spend so much is we have an intervention-based health system. We need a prevention-based.

CHARLIE ROSE: The idea is once you get sick, we try to stop it.

MIKE HUCKABEE: We wait until you are really, really sick. The point is, if we`d dealt with this early on, if we provided screenings -- now, people say that`s a spending program. But if you spend the money to prevent the illness, you don`t spend as much money to try to correct it and deal with it when it`s out of control. Our current system waits until a person has an illness and disease out of control.

CHARLIE ROSE: Fair enough. And you learned that experience when you were diagnosed as having diabetes. And you went out and lost 110 pounds.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Right.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right. And you began to eat better and began to take care of yourself.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes. It costs a whole lot less money.

CHARLIE ROSE: Because somebody said if you don`t...

MIKE HUCKABEE: I`m going to die.

CHARLIE ROSE: You`re going to die.

MIKE HUCKABEE: That`s a wake-up call, by the way. You know, a dirt nap is not exactly the future that you look forward to.

CHARLIE ROSE: The gallows will concentrate your attention.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes.

CHARLIE ROSE: A hangman`s noose will concentrate your attention.

MIKE HUCKABEE: It definitely does.

CHARLIE ROSE: And that`s what happened to you. And therefore, you understanding -- today childhood obesity is a huge issue.

MIKE HUCKABEE: It is...

CHARLIE ROSE: Maybe there`s a place we ought to spend money.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Absolutely. And we should, because if we don`t, it`s not only an health issue; it`s an economic issue. It will bankrupt this country. You realize that 61 percent of the active military today are overweight? Who is going to fight a future war if we try to have one? We`ll have a...

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLIE ROSE: But at the same time, there are people sick, and too many people in this country do not have medical insurance. Is that unacceptable...

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes, it is unacceptable.

CHARLIE ROSE: ... for Governor Huckabee?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Oh, of course, it is. But here`s the caveat: If we think the lifeline is insurance without health -- see, people talk about health insurance. Let`s make sure...

CHARLIE ROSE: But you can`t talk about health as a means and not talking about the crisis that is today.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Of the 46 million people that don`t have health insurance, a third don`t have it because they don`t need it. They can pay for their own. In other words, they are wealthy enough and they don`t need this insurance system. They are self-insured.

A third could afford it, but choose not to because they are young, they are healthy, they think they`re indestructible. A third can`t afford it.

CHARLIE ROSE: And so?

MIKE HUCKABEE: And there are many that...

CHARLIE ROSE: So for those who can`t afford it, what?

MIKE HUCKABEE: There needs to be a way to help them access that marketplace.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what would be your solution?

MIKE HUCKABEE: It would be a staired approach, a stepped approach, if you want to say it, so that there`s a sliding scale on which people are able to access the system. There would also be incentives in that system, so that the healthier your behavior, the more steps you take to control your health, the less expensive it becomes and the more incentives that are placed there.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what is wrong from your vantage point and your experience with the Obama, Clinton, Edwards proposals?

MIKE HUCKABEE: It only addresses one issue of the whole health care maze.

CHARLIE ROSE: Paying for it?

MIKE HUCKABEE: No, no. There are three basic tenants of trying to make the health care system work: Access, affordability and quality. And right now, the focus seemingly of the Democrats is all on access, with almost a disregard to the affordability, because if the government pays for it, then you inevitably are going to lead to some level of rationing. Because the government budgets on the basis of this is how much money we`re going to spend. And once you`ve fixed an amount you`re going to spend, and you go over that amount, you either go into deficit spending, or you have to borrow from other things. There`s just a finite amount in which the government is going to fund.

The third issue, quality, is not even being discussed. Quality has to become a part of the mix. The Democrats say, government should control it; the Republicans should say the private insurance companies should control it. Personally, I think they are both wrong. I don`t want - because I don`t trust insurance companies anymore than I trust the government to run my health care. I trust me.

CHARLIE ROSE: Education in America.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Curriculum is too limited. If you want to succeed in education, you have a curriculum that touches the talent of every child. A good thing that has happened is we`ve put this new focus on math and science, and that`s wonderful, because kids need that. They need to be really challenged in it.

But you know why 6,000 kids drop out of school every day in this country? Think about that: 6,000. A third of the kids in school are going to drop out and never finish. A lot of it is they are not dumb; they are bored.

I suggest we launch weapons of mass instruction. And it`s music and art programs. It`s to touch the right brain as much as we are trying to touch the left brain. We have an education system that is so tilted to left brain focus that we`ve forgotten that every human being has to have the balance of left and right site. The creative side and the logical side.

CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me about the quality of teachers and how you think that is a part of both the problem and the solution of education in America today?

MIKE HUCKABEE: You don`t encourage the kind of quality and professionalism when you essentially treat teachers like factory workers in an assembly line. Teachers ought to be treated as professionals. They have professional degrees. They have professional preparation and background. And then we put them in a class, we say, OK, everybody gets the same pay, everybody is in the same position.

CHARLIE ROSE: Should science teacher get more than a gym teacher, say?

MIKE HUCKABEE: If the market is that it`s harder to get a science teacher ...

CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Frankly, gym teachers in some cases might get more, because if they help kids to be healthy, they`re going to return a lot back to the economy. So, a good gym teacher is worth their weight in gold.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, but what (inaudible) about the quality of teachers and how we - an incentive for teachers ...

MIKE HUCKABEE: Teachers who teach better get paid more.

CHARLIE ROSE: And again, how do we measure that?

MIKE HUCKABEE: You measure it by having a longitudinal system, in which you see how well these students do along the line. You can`t just do it by spot checking, because that will never be an accurate reflection. That`s a snapshot. You have to establish the chain of seeing how these students do in the first, second and third grade. Judge how are they improving or not improving.

Then you share the consequences of that not just with one individual teacher, but with all of those who make up the team of that particular school.

A second thing you do is that you start teachers out at a pay that attracts the best people into teaching, and you don`t lose them by the fifth year.

We did some studies in Arkansas to find out why teachers left - because we had a lot of teachers that would get into this program and then they`d leave. And there were a couple of interesting factors. One of it was money, but you know why most -- and most teachers, by the way, left between the fourth and fifth year. And some of it was money. The other part was the lack of support that they felt from their colleagues, from the -- from their administration and from the community.

CHARLIE ROSE: And from parents.

MIKE HUCKABEE: And from parents, from -- just a lack of support, a lack of appreciation and support. So, there`s a lot of factors that come into play. Money is one of them, but the other is once again upholding the teacher as that professional that we look up to.

CHARLIE ROSE: Should we therefore have national standards for teaching?

MIKE HUCKABEE: If you get it wrong, you`ve got it wrong for all 50 states. When you have 50 ...

CHARLIE ROSE: But if you get it right, you`ve got it right for all 50 states.

MIKE HUCKABEE: You never fully know. The best thing is, is to let states begin to set the standards that will give them the competition.

See, the good thing about current testing methods -- we know how well we are doing not only against their own benchmarks, which is a state criteria; we also know how well we`re doing against the national benchmarks by the NAPE testing. And so, when we test in those two capacities, you have a good indication of are you meeting your standards, but then how well am I doing against the standards of all the other states? So, we really have the capacity for that without getting the federal government controlling every aspect of education.

CHARLIE ROSE: So, the issue is national or not, for you. I mean, you are in favor of standards; you just don`t want it to be national.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yeah, just -- well, I don`t want it to be federal, perhaps. In essence, you have some national standards, because you have NAPE scores.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right.

MIKE HUCKABEE: You have SAT, you have ACT. Those are all national, but you don`t have the federal government saying this is how you have to arrive to get to those standards.

CHARLIE ROSE: No Child Left Behind, a good idea?

MIKE HUCKABEE: It actually is a good idea. And I know it has so many critics. The strength of it is also its weakness, which is I guess, true of a lot of things. The strength is, that for the first time, it actually recognizes student as individuals.

CHARLIE ROSE: What makes you good, makes you bad?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, heretofore you had kids that got lost in the system. If they had learning disabilities, or they were ESL, English as second language kids, they could just get folded up in the system, and you`d never realize they were there, because the kids making good grades covered for them. And as it aggregated, you never knew they were there.

Under NCLB, now you have kids that actually are going be discovered and they`ll find they`ve got learning disabilities, and we`re going to put resources there to help them, as we should.

And here is the downside. The downside is that if you have a disproportionate number of kids who have a learning disability or who are non-English speakers, or who have just come into the system the day of the testing and they haven`t had any context, then it can skewer the whole school results. So, there needs to be some refines.

CHARLIE ROSE: Do we in your judgment, from your experience, simply need to rethink education in America? For example, we always believed that small class size was good. Class size was good. There`s some people now saying in some countries that are saying, larger class size is OK, because you can pay a gifted teacher more.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I don`t think class size is as big a criteria as is a rigorous, challenging curriculum. And another factor that really is going to have an influence on the quality of education is making sure that you individualize the learning to the student.

See, we don`t have in many cases a student-centered school. We have a school-centered school. When we focus on perpetuating the institution we`ve already failed, we`ve messed it up completely. You know what would radically change education? Is that we would look at each student and say, what are your gifts, what are your talents, what are your interests? And we tailor what you study based on what turns you on, and you`ll want to come to school because we`re going to make sure that we touch your buttons.

We don`t do that, Charlie. What we do, is we say, OK, everybody. Everybody -- it doesn`t matter whether there are 10 kids or 100 kids in the class. So now, shut up, be still ...

CHARLIE ROSE: Listen to us.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Listen to us, and put your nose in that black and white book. And they go home, and they got all these colors and noises flashing at them. And then we want them to sit there like this, and we wonder why they drop out? For heaven`s sake, it`s a miracle we don`t have more kids dropping out.

CHARLIE ROSE: So, let`s assume you become president.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Oh, that`s a good assumption. That`s a good start.

CHARLIE ROSE: We`ll talk more about electability in a moment. All right. Let`s assume you become president. Tell me in education, as president, top four things you`re going to do?

MIKE HUCKABEE: First, I`d put a big emphasis on music and art programs, the creative science, right brain...

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, basically what you were just saying here.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Secondly, I would make sure that we start focusing on the individual student, personalize education for the students.

Now, I`m not suggesting the federal government takes charge. Use the bully pulpit of the federal government and ask the governors to do this, and they will. I`ve got great confidence. You get governors and challenge them, and they`ll go out there and find ways to make this stuff work, because they have to. They`re accountable to it.

Third thing, I would raise and elevate the prestige and the level of teaching as a profession. And I encourage that we elevate that, both in terms of the stature that we afford to them in support, but also that we make it tangible, that teachers actually get paid a professional level of salary, and that we make it attractive so that when people go to college, they don`t just say, well, I would like to be a doctor or a nurse, I`d like to be a teacher, but I can`t afford, because it doesn`t pay enough and I`ll never pay off my college loans.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK, how are we going to do that? That`s a crucial point. How do we find the funds to pay good teachers?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, you know what? In Arkansas, I`ll tell you what we did. I get accused of, you know, raising taxes.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Our Supreme Court said that we had an inadequate, inequitable education system. We did put more money in it. We started seeing, though, better results from it.

I don`t want to raise taxes. This is a state issue still. A lot of it is the reallocation of the resources, and to say, instead of putting so much money on competitive sports -- and boy, that`s a sticky wicket there -- but isn`t it more important that our kids are competitive when they`re 30 years old in the job market then if they`re competitive when they`re 15 and playing with shoulder pads on?

I`m not against football. I don`t want to get, you know, 100 million e-mails telling me that they`ll never vote for me because I`m anti-sports.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I love sports. Please, every body, hear me. I love sports. It`s great. But when all the kid has and he is 25 years old ...

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.

MIKE HUCKABEE: ... is a letter jacket and a trophy, and he doesn`t have a decent education, and he can`t read, and he can`t get a decent job, we have failed that kid. We failed him.

CHARLIE ROSE: Do we also fail a kid who by nature of where he lives or she lives has to go to a school that`s inadequate?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Oh, yeah.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what we do about that? You are born in a neighborhood, and where you go to school is not nearly as good as the school that Mike Huckabee`s kids go to?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, I`ll tell you what we did in Arkansas. We had a law called the Omnibus Education Act that said when a school in two years failed either financially, on a fiscal issue or academically, the state could take over the school, fire the superintendent and the entire school board, and do whatever it took to bring that school up to standard. And guess what? We actually did that. We went into schools and we came in and said one morning to the superintendent, "you are relieved of your duties." We said to the entire school board, "you are no longer the school board."

CHARLIE ROSE: Did principals have a right to fire teachers? Based on performance?

MIKE HUCKABEE: (inaudible) there is due process. There`s got to be some process. You can`t just have an arbitrary, I can fire you for anything I want, because then you get into a situation where some really good teachers who may be unorthodox and a little bit kind of...

CHARLIE ROSE: Who would appeal to the thing you`re talking about, the creativity.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Exactly. The best creative teachers might get tossed because they are not necessarily robots, they are contrarians. But the contrarians may make the best teachers.

CHARLIE ROSE: Let me talk about other domestic issues, too. And we talked about economics. You are in favor of a sales tax.

MIKE HUCKABEE: To totally get rid of the taxes on productivity, and to go to a consumption tax instead. To change the very structure of the tax system from top to bottom.

CHARLIE ROSE: At what level would you do this? And what is your model for this?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, the model is what`s called the fair tax. And it was designed by probably the best economists in the country, who were charged with this task: Take a blank sheet of paper and, without any particular pressure or agenda, design a tax system that would meet the needs of our economy, but would do it in the most efficient, effective way that would actually improve the economic capacity for everyone in the system.

CHARLIE ROSE: And would generate just as much research -- revenue as the tax system....

MIKE HUCKABEE: That`s right. That was the point.

CHARLIE ROSE: You`ve given it...

MIKE HUCKABEE: It would be essentially a financial wash in terms of what the rate would -- or what the income would be. But there are several reasons that it works so much more effectively.

The first is that you don`t tax productivity, whether it`s income of corporations or individuals. You don`t tax capital gains. You don`t tax savings. You don`t tax dividends. You don`t tax inheritance.

CHARLIE ROSE: So you`re not saying that -- I don`t have any question about I`m going to raise the capital gains tax, as some Democrats want to do, from 15 to 25 or 30. You want to do away with the capital gains tax, because it impedes productivity, or whatever reason you believe.

There are those who say a sales tax is inherently unfair to the poor.

MIKE HUCKABEE: It would be, except for this wonderful provision of the fair tax -- and I would never be for the fair tax unless it had the provision of the prebate, which makes the fair tax work more for the poor than any other economic group.

Here`s why: Under the prebate program, the way it works is that at the 1st of each month, every citizen gets a check, just like it would be a Social Security check, in the amount of the consumption sales tax rate up to the point of poverty for each member of the household, which is a way of untaxing everyone for their groceries, and medicines, and basic necessities.

Now, it would untax completely the poor and the elderly. People who spend a whole lot of money on maybe things they buy, you know, lobster and not baloney, it probably might not rebate them, but they don`t need it. But at every level, the studies show that if you are at the bottom level of the economy, the bottom economy, the impact for you is about -- I mean, a gain of about 13.8 percent. In the middle, it`s about 6 percent, and at the top it`s still about 4.5 percent. So everybody wins.

CHARLIE ROSE: There`s no other political candidate who is advocating this.

MIKE HUCKABEE: I think there`s others that support it, but I don`t think anybody is maybe as bold as I am about suggesting it.

CHARLIE ROSE: You want to do away with income tax.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Absolutely. I`d do away with the IRS. There wouldn`t be an IRS.

CHARLIE ROSE: You want to abolish the IRS.

MIKE HUCKABEE: We wouldn`t need them. Because the IRS, 66,000 pages of tax code -- who understands it? Do you know we spend $250 billion a year in compliance? Wouldn`t that money be better put in wages and benefits and research and development and marketing? Do you realize there are $10 trillion of U.S. money parked offshore that is American money, but the money has been moved offshore because it`s got to be protected from the taxes.

France has a lower tax on companies and corporations than the United States. There`s 22 percent embedded tax in every single thing we buy. You pick something off a shelf; there`s 22 percent embedded tax in it. By the time you pay the income tax from the corporation level, which corporations don`t pay; they pass it to the customers. The payroll taxes, all of the various ways in which those companies are taxed. That is passed on in the cost of doing business, the cost of the product.

Here is what`s wrong. If a European manufacturer makes something, he is not required to put the value added tax, the VAT, on it as it comes in as an import to America, but the American manufacturer has to put that embedded tax in. So already the American company is working at a disadvantage. And guess what happens? We`re losing manufacturing jobs. They`re going to Asia and they are going to Europe and they`re going to Mexico. Is it because our workers are not capable? No, it`s because our tax system is choking the life out of this economy.

CHARLIE ROSE: Immigration.

MIKE HUCKABEE: It has to be fixed, and the government has failed us miserably. And it starts with a secure border.

It`s now more difficult for me to get on an airplane in my hometown than it is for somebody to cross the international border. That`s absurd, and everybody in America knows it.

I don`t think we`re ultimately, as Americans, angry at the immigrants. We`re angry at a government that has absolutely ignored this problem and allowed it to fester.

You know, I tell people, look, I get on my knees every day and I thank God I`m in a country people are trying to break into, not a country they are trying to break out of. That`s good. But what isn`t good is that we have allowed people to come -- we don`t know who they are, where they are, why they are here. Do they have a communicable disease, do they have...

CHARLIE ROSE: So every illegal alien in this country who came in without -- unlawfully -- you would do what with?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I would first deal with them at the point of their employment. Because you`re never going to get all the illegals to raise their hand and say, oh, by the way, I`m here illegally. That`s unrealistic. So you do it at the point of the employment.

If the employer knowingly hires people who are not legal, then put the penalty on the employer and put the burden to get the employer to take the necessary steps to get that person to start this process and do it legally.

Now, part of what has to happen is the government has got to make the process far more streamlined and effective, because if it takes seven or eight years to get a permit so you can pluck a chicken or make a bed at a motel or tar a roof, most people would just say, I think I`ll just take my chances and start tarring roofs tomorrow, and not spend seven years in line.

So they are hungry. They want to feed their families. Do you blame them? Do you blame a government that puts that kind of bureaucratic nonsense in front of them?

CHARLIE ROSE: Where do you put amnesty in your vocabulary?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I don`t believe in amnesty. I think it`s a big mistake. It sends the wrong signal. I don`t believe in sanctuary cities. I think that`s a big mistake.

CHARLIE ROSE: So you and the president are at a very different place on this?

MIKE HUCKABEE: You know, I understand where he is coming from. And I understand -- I`m grateful that he tried to do something, but I think his program did not satisfy enough Americans that you were going to really stop the influx. Because it`s got to start with a secure border, and his did not.

CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me what your judgment is about the success and the failure of the Bush administration.

MIKE HUCKABEE: The success is he has been true to his convictions, and he has, I think, in spite of overwhelming, maybe, public sentiment, he has truly fought terrorism on every front. Again, we can argue whether he`s done it perfectly, but I believe his focus has been on trying to keep this country safe.

CHARLIE ROSE: Would you have made the same decisions he made?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Not all of them, no, I would not.

CHARLIE ROSE: Where would you not? Where would you have disagreed?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I would have listened to our generals on how many people we needed to send in Iraq when we first went in. I think we had a very good plan, the shock-and-awe plan, to topple Saddam Hussein. We did not have a good plan about how we were going to really bring some stability to the country.

CHARLIE ROSE: 200,000, 300,000, 400,000?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, most of the generals thought we needed 300,000 boots on the ground if we were going to do that job effectively.

CHARLIE ROSE: So if you were not prepared to send 300,000 troops there, you should not have gone to war?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Not unless there was an imminent attack, I mean, a Pearl Harbor situation.

CHARLIE ROSE: Well, there wasn`t.

MIKE HUCKABEE: No, there wasn`t at that time.

CHARLIE ROSE: So it was a mistake not to go in there, unless you were prepared to send 300,000 people.

MIKE HUCKABEE: If you don`t do it right, you typically have to do it over.

CHARLIE ROSE: So what do you do now?

MIKE HUCKABEE: You make sure that we do what I think we are doing, and that is you put the troops in the surge that is having the right effect. And it is beginning to bring some into the heightening violence. It`s not in any way solving it completely, but it`s definitely making dramatic improvements. And then you try to bring advanced and accelerated stability to the government of Iraq so that we can get to a place that we get out of there.

CHARLIE ROSE: Everybody agrees with what you just said. The question is, why is it not happening?

MIKE HUCKABEE: But it is happening, Charlie.

CHARLIE ROSE: Not on the political side.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, the political side is much slower, but you have to realize, these are folks who don`t have a history of democracy. It`s a tough thing. You know, we`ve been at this 250 years.

CHARLIE ROSE: Five things that you would do, that would be on your desk if you were elected president, in the first 100 days.

MIKE HUCKABEE: The first thing I would try to do is to bring this country back together in terms of really speaking honestly and forthrightly to the need that we have got to start operating as one country.

Then, I would make sure that the American people understood and were committed to fighting and winning against Islamofascists.

The second thing is an energy policy that says we`re going to be energy-independent within 10 years. I know that sounds bold, but let me tell you something -- we`ve got to get to the place, first for our economy; secondly, for the environment; and third, for our national security -- to be able within a 10-year period to say to the Saudis and the rest of the Middle East, whose oil we depend on, in 10 years, you can keep your oil, because it will be as important to us as your sand. We`re not going to need either one of them. And then we`ve got to develop the alternative, domestically-produced, environmentally-friendly energy sources.

Third thing...

CHARLIE ROSE: They have to be economically feasible. At $80, at $100 a barrel.

MIKE HUCKABEE: They start getting real feasible.

CHARLIE ROSE: They start getting feasible.

MIKE HUCKABEE: The third thing I`d do is take on what I would call the health care maze and turn it into a health care system, and begin to focus on turning a generational change from intervention-based health care to prevention-based health care. That would include working toward coverage, but it would be that you own that coverage and it`s portable to you. Your employer doesn`t own it. The government doesn`t own it. The insurance company doesn`t own it. You are going to own it, and you are going to help make decisions, and you and your doctor will work on the issues of quality.

A fourth thing I would do is I`d challenge the education system to do exactly what I said before: To focus on the kind of curriculum that would interest the student, personalize learning, weapons of mass instruction on music and arts...

CHARLIE ROSE: What is the role of federal government on that?

MIKE HUCKABEE: To encourage it. Not to do it. The states have to do it. I want to make real clear, I`m not a -- in fact, if anything, with the Bush administration, I`m a little disappointed they`ve federal -- I mean, they have taken over some things that should be left at the state level.

But the federal government and particularly the president has a very important role to play in speaking to those issues, and to use the bully pulpit of the office to show why it`s important.

CHARLIE ROSE: So education is a top five priority for you.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Yes. It probably would be.

CHARLIE ROSE: Along with health care and Islamo...

MIKE HUCKABEE: And infrastructure.

CHARLIE ROSE: Terrorism. And infrastructure.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Infrastructure, yes. We have a clogged system. Airports, roads, sewer systems, water systems. And you know, we can understand that there`s an extraordinary economic price. But you know, there is a part of this that we don`t understand. There is an environmental price. We have airplanes and cars just sitting there, throwing fumes up into the air. There`s an environmental price. But there is another piece of this, too. There`s a lot of lost social capital in this country with parents who never get home to be with their families, never see their daughters` dance recital or their son`s soccer game, because they are stuck on an airport tarmac, they are stuck in traffic, and they don`t get home.

CHARLIE ROSE: I`ve got two last questions.

MIKE HUCKABEE: OK.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK. Both of them I think are important in the end. One is: The presidency, so frequently as we`ve seen in history, is about character, not about positions. How do we know about Mike Huckabee`s character?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, probably the best thing is to ask those people who really know me. You know, not my political opponents, not my critics. Because there are plenty of those, and they`ll tell you that I`m probably responsible for everything from the Kennedy assassination to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby and the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.

But talk to the people, my school teachers, the people who have worked with me in my inner circle.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what do you hope they`ll say about you?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I think they`ll say that, like anybody, I`ve got my flaws, but I have convictions. I`m a principled person. I`m consistent. And that I truly, genuinely care about people, and that I have a desire to see things work. I think that`s what they would say.

CHARLIE ROSE: And what kind of person would you choose as your vice president, what kind of person? And what kind of people do you want in the cabinet?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I want people who are optimistic, who are visionary. I want people who will challenge the status quo. I want people who -- who have a zeal and zest for life, and who understand just what the American dream really means, who love it, who have lived it, and who want others to have it as well.

CHARLIE ROSE: Some people in Arkansas say about you, Mike Huckabee trusts only Mike Huckabee.

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, it`s repeated by the very people who repeat all the other things. Again, you`ve been governor ten and a half years, Charlie, you make some enemies. That`s true. I`ll never satisfy everybody. And I won`t even attempt to defend everything.

If the people who really know me, who have really worked with me in-depth, if they start saying that, I`m going to probably go home and cry. But I`ll put it this way: When I`ve seen the names of the people who are saying these things about me and I know how little they really know me, my attitude is I`ll have to take half a baby aspirin to be able to sleep tonight over that criticism.

CHARLIE ROSE: Thank you for coming.

MIKE HUCKABEE: My pleasure, Charlie. Thank you.

CHARLIE ROSE: Mike Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, running for president, and first running for the nomination of the Republican Party.

We thank you for joining us, this first in a series of conversations with the candidates running for president.

See you next time.

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