Election 2008 Democrats | Republicans | General Election: Heads-to-Heads | Latest Polls

---

August 27, 2007

Fox News Sunday Panel - Aug. 26

Fox News Sunday

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORMER. SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, D-N.C.: The American people deserve to know that their presidency is not for sale, the Lincoln bedroom is not for rent, and lobbyist money can no longer influence policy in the House or the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: That was John Edwards this week in what sure seemed like an attack on Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton, but now Edwards says he wasn't talking about her.

And it's time now for our Sunday panel -- Bill Kristol of The Weekly Standard, Gloria Borger of U.S. News & World Report, Byron York from The National Review, and Juan Williams from National Public Radio.

And a special welcome to Gloria and Byron, who are first-timers here. You will soon understand the error of your ways.

(LAUGHTER)

Bill, why would John Edwards make a speech talking about the Lincoln bedroom being for sale that seemed so transparently to be about Hillary Clinton and the Clinton years -- he even talked about the dangers of nostalgia -- and then deny he was even talking about her?

BILL KRISTOL, WEEKLY STANDARD: Because he's a wimp, I guess. You know, to defeat Hillary Clinton, one of the people who's running behind her is going to have to criticize her, and the Lincoln bedroom line is a good line. I mean, it plays on a certain sense among Democratic voters as well that they don't quite want to go back to all the issues of the Clinton years. But you can't then back off. That's really pathetic. And I think one question will be in the next couple of months, more for Obama than for Edwards, because Obama's the real threat, is he willing to really confront Hillary Clinton. Is he willing to turn to her in a debate and say, "With all due respect, Senator Clinton, we don't want to go back to the '90s, we need a fresh start," something like that?

And I think that's a pretty effective line for a Democrat, but so far they sort of jab a little bit at Hillary Clinton and then back off. They're so terrified of her, I guess.

WALLACE: Let me ask you about that, Gloria. Is there a danger in a Democrat like Obama or Edwards really confronting, really going after Hillary Clinton, really going after, in a sense, Bill Clinton and the 1990s?

Is that the winning strategy, or would that be really self- destructive?

GLORIA BORGER, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: Well, so far, every time they've done it this summer, it's been weak. It hasn't really helped them gain altitude at all, and she fights back.

And it's very difficult particularly with a woman candidate because it makes her suddenly seem more sympathetic.

I mean, I think what Edwards did was sort of smart, reminding people that Hillary Clinton is about the status quo and this is a change election.

But I do agree with Bill. You then can't say, "No, I wasn't trying to remind you of Bill Clinton and the sale of the Lincoln bedroom." You have to say, "She's more of the same and I'm different."

Obama is trying to do that, too, but at a certain point, they're going to have to learn how to take her on and win, and so far they haven't done that.

BYRON YORK, NATIONAL REVIEW: It's also a completely different John Edwards. I mean, the reason John Edwards is where he is today is because he did well in Iowa in 2004. And at that point, he was Mr. Sunshine. He wasn't attacking other people. So he's trying on an entirely new persona.

But in this latest Fox poll, he's 17 points behind Obama, who is 12 points behind Hillary Clinton. I mean, he's way, way down. We're almost in September. And I think that there's a little whiff of desperation about this.

WALLACE: So is the answer -- you know, I mean, let's talk about the desperation, because, Juan, you've had John Edwards attack other candidates for taking money from executives at News Corp, and then it turned out that he received $800,000 for a book deal from our parent company, from the publishing house.

He talks about rebuilding New Orleans and then it turns out he worked for a multibillion-dollar hedge fund that was involved in foreclosing on houses in New Orleans.

His wife has become the attack dog in the campaign. What's the Edwards plan, or is there one?

JUAN WILLIAMS, NPR: Well, the Edwards plan is that he feels -- it's interesting that his folks feel that they are well-positioned, that people at some point will tire of the Clintons.

And this whole argument, you know, that you're looking back to nostalgia in the '90s, and that Bill Clinton represents real baggage, and that the Democrat -- the landscape is so favorable for Democrats, why would we put out there a candidate who could be defeated.

There was an interesting poll this week from Pew that indicated that when you look at Mrs. Clinton, she's very popular among Democrats, but when you get her toward the general election, the general population, she is one of the weaker candidates, has so many negatives.

And so I think that that's what Edwards is hoping to do, is to capitalize on that, to make that point that we want somebody who can win.

The problem is, as you just heard from Byron, the numbers don't support -- that's why there's more than a whiff of desperation. He is clinging.

And I think it's also true in terms of the Obama campaign, where Michelle Obama said this week -- she says, again like Edwards, "I'm not talking about Mrs. Clinton." But she said, you know, "If you can't take control of your own house, how can you control the White House?"

These are all digs and negativity. Mrs. Clinton says she's not going to get in the pit and start taking punches at other Democrats, but that's what you're seeing from her Democratic challengers.

WALLACE: Let's talk about Hillary Clinton, who, I think it would be fair to say, has run an almost error-free campaign up to this point but hit a bump, a speed bump, this week.

She told New Hampshire voters what will happen if there is another terrorist attack. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, D-N.Y.: That will automatically give the Republicans an advantage again, no matter how badly they have mishandled it, no matter how much more dangerous they have made the world, and so I think I'm the best of the Democrats to deal with that as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Bill Kristol, the Democratic rivals saw a rare opportunity there and they jumped all over it.

KRISTOL: That's an odd comment. I mean, I don't even know if it's -- A, it's funny for a candidate to speculate like a pundit about what the implications would be of a terror attack some time before November 2008.

I'm not sure it would help, actually, the Republicans. And I would say, actually -- since presumably the Democratic line, if there's another attack here, God forbid, would be Iraq was a diversion, what a terrible mistake, it didn't make the world safer -- doesn't that help Obama, who was against the war in Iraq at first? Why does that help Hillary Clinton?

So if I can continue my pro-Obama line here, he should confront her on that. I mean, the core Democratic argument's going to be Iraq was a terrible mistake, and Obama can make that argument most consistently.

WALLACE: Let's turn...

WILLIAMS: No, hang on a second. But the problem is that everybody knows that Republicans will play the fear card and say, "Oh, we've been attacked again and who's really going to protect America? It's a pro- defense, hard-line Republican."

Is that right, Bill? And that's what...

KRISTOL: And that would be true. That would be true.

WILLIAMS: Oh, now you're saying it's true. Well, then that means Mrs. Clinton was exactly right to say what she said.

YORK: This is consistent with her -- she said several times in the past, "I have a Ph.D. in the right wing -- vast right-wing conspiracy. I know how to deal with these Republicans."

That's what she's talking about. She's telling audiences not that she's going to deal with terrorism, but when the Republicans make their inevitable attacks on their patriotism, she would be best prepared to deal with them.

BORGER: Can I say it was one of those rare moments when you actually saw Hillary Clinton say something unguarded, number one? And number two, it was a natural mistake for her to say that with her Democratic constituency.

This was Hillary Clinton talking with her campaign consultants, essentially, as she would have if this weren't a New Hampshire audience, and say, "You know, I think that might be to the benefit of the Republicans."

But I think this was a mistake for her. What was funny to me, getting back to John Edwards, was Edwards was saying, "I'm shocked that Hillary Clinton made this political calculation about terror." Come on.

WALLACE: Sounds like Casablanca. BORGER: Right.

WALLACE: Just briefly -- and we've only got a minute or so left -- let's turn to the Republicans.

Fred Thompson, Bill Kristol -- why is it taking him so long to get in the race? Is it beginning to hurt him?

KRISTOL: Well, I should disclose that one of our daughters is working for Fred Thompson. She's a not-yet-paid junior staffer for the not-yet- launched Thompson campaign, and I hope they'll get going so she can maybe get paid. That's my main thought.

(LAUGHTER)

OK, having disclosed all that, he's second in the polls, as we showed earlier. For a guy who hasn't even begun to campaign, I think his launch, which will happen, I take it, right after Labor Day, is very important.

That will be his moment of, you know, giving a speech, coming on T.V., on "Fox News Sunday" I trust, et cetera, and I think that will be an important week for him to see whether he really bumps up a little in the polls and is the conservative alternative to Giuliani, or whether he doesn't bump up, in which case someone like Romney really has a shot.

WALLACE: Juan, this waiting for Thompson...

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, you know, Fred Barnes told me he was going out to -- I think it was Indiana to listen to him last night. I would be interested to hear what Fred said.

But overall, what I'm hearing from Republicans is that he doesn't deliver on the stump, that they feel that it's like, you know, you're waiting, you're waiting, you're waiting, and it just doesn't pan out.

This guy is supposed to be an actor, supposed to have the power of making a powerful presentation, and yet he doesn't deliver. And so people are disappointed, and that's why the money is not there.

We can talk about whether or not -- when the announcement comes, or whatever, but the bottom line is, Chris, the money hasn't come. He said it was $5 million -- going to have by September. He's not even close.

WALLACE: Senator Thompson, we just want to say, "Jump in the water. It's nice and warm. We welcome you here on the campaign trail."

Have to step aside for a moment, but up next, President Bush says lessons learned in Vietnam show why we need to hang tough in Iraq. We'll break down that comparison when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: On this day in 1968, thousands of demonstrators clashed with police at the Democratic Convention in Chicago. They were protesting the Vietnam war and the nomination of Vice President Hubert Humphrey.

Stay tuned for more from our panel and our Power Player of the Week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Whatever your position is on that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: That was President Bush on Wednesday drawing parallels between the fallout from America's withdrawal from Vietnam and what would happen if the U.S. now leaves Iraq.

And we're back now with Bill, Gloria, Byron and Juan.

Well, Bill Kristol, for years the president has been denying, trying to shy away from, comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam. This week he seemed to go out of his way to draw a link.

And in what I've got to say is a first for me, you had White House aides saying, in what seemed to be their protecting themselves at the expense of their boss, "We had nothing to do with this. This was his idea." Good idea or not?

KRISTOL: I think a good idea. It reminded me of August 1980 when Ronald Reagan personally added to a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the same group that Bush was speaking to last week -- he personally added to a defense policy speech a defense of the war in Vietnam as a noble cause.

His aides distanced themselves. The New York Times and Washington Post speculated that this could be the beginning of the end of the Reagan campaign.

It turned out that most Americans agreed that though the war was fought badly, that it was a noble cause and that the abandonment of our allies in April 1975 was shameful and damaging to our interests, just as abandoning Iraq would be today.

WALLACE: Gloria, do you think in the middle of this long, tough war in Iraq, most Americans would now say, "Gee, we should have stayed longer in Vietnam?"

BORGER: No, I don't think so. And the folks I talk to at the White House say, "Look, we were tired of hearing the word quagmire about Vietnam and we decided to confront this head on."

And I think it may turn out to be a very bad idea, because you're right, the American public doesn't want to hear these analogies. The American public is not looking backward. They're looking forward.

And they want to find the way out of Iraq, and I think that's what they want this president to be focused on, not history.

And in fact, one of these historians whom the president referred to not by name but by text says, "That's not what I meant."

WALLACE: Byron, where do you weigh in on the Vietnam analogy?

YORK: Well, look. It's a legitimate point about what happened after we left Vietnam. It's been made most eloquently by Jim Webb, the Democratic senator from Virginia, former Vietnam veteran.

On the other hand, it's -- look. Most Americans think that we lost in Vietnam, or at the very least we did not win in Vietnam. It's not a good analogy for the president to bring up. And he's going to address the Foreign Legion this week.

WALLACE: The American Legion.

YORK: The American Legion.

WALLACE: Not the Foreign Legion.

YORK: I knew something was wrong there.

(LAUGHTER)

He's going to address the American Legion this week...

WALLACE: He could wear one of those funny hats. That would be very bad.

YORK: ... and he'll be getting back to the Middle East region. It'll be all about the Middle East region. We won't be hearing about Vietnam again.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think he's trying -- this is just a different angle on trying to build support for what's to come in September with the report coming from General Petraeus on Iraq.

And I think he's having a difficult time. It's interesting that he would choose this group and choose Vietnam. I think that you're trying to rewrite the fantasy and say, "You know what? Vietnam wasn't a losing cause."

But I think most Americans see that even if it wasn't a losing cause, it was a problematic one, certainly, for our military. And the military is what's at stake here.

We've had these conversations this morning, or you've had these conversations, talking about the surge as having had some meaningful progress, resulted in some meaningful progress, but the political situation on the ground, as revealed in the NIE, the national intelligence estimate, report says no political progress.

And when you talk to the generals, when you talk to the military people, they're saying the military is stretched to its maximum at this point, which makes you think, "Why would we want to put our military through what happened in Vietnam? Why would we want to put them through that now?"

WALLACE: Let's pivot to this all-important month, Bill, September, which -- maybe it won't be the all-important month, but we sure have been talking about it that way.

When you look at the national intelligence report, when you look at these critics of the war coming back and saying, "You know, things are looking a little better," and we had Congressman Baird who said, "You know, I'm now not so sure I like the idea of a time line," who's got the momentum, the president or his critics?

KRISTOL: The president. I mean, I'm a strong supporter of the surge, but I will say, just honestly, if you had told me three months ago this is where we would be in late August, the great Iraq summer that the antiwar groups were going to gin up, all the pressure on the Republicans culminating in John Warner making a very weak statement -- he'd prefer to see a couple of thousand troops out by Christmas, but he's going to vote with the president, a liberal Democrat who was against the war eloquently - - eloquently -- making the case for given where we are now it is totally irresponsible to establish a time table or to insist on withdrawal -- I think the president's in very good shape.

WALLACE: Gloria, we have less than a minute left. I mean, we all like to predict. We all like to bet. If you had to bet at this moment, will the president be able to continue the surge?

BORGER: I think he's going to have to have some kind of a draw down, but I think what you'll probably see is more of a status quo situation than we might have anticipated a few months ago.

I think Senator Warner is going to be very important in this. And listening to Senator McConnell today in your interview, McConnell was the one talking about change.

WALLACE: All right. We're going to have to leave it there.

The newcomer gets the last word, Juan. She ran out the clock.

Thank you, panel. See you next week.

About Us | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy         © RealClearPolitics 2006