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December 13, 2006

Special Report Roundtable - December 13

FOX News Special Report With Brit Hume

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Ton, Do have a reaction to Senator Nelson sitting down with the Syrian President Assad, today?

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: Well, we certainly did not encourage members of Congress to be traveling to Syria.

BAIER: What about the actual outreach to try to engage Syria?

SNOW: Well again, I only know the fractional amounts because the press report just came over very briefly, so I don't know anything that went on other than we think it's important that the Syrians understand what our position is and it is not -- we don't think -- we don't think that members of Congress ought to be going there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: Well, there's never been any doubt about that, but what the press reports, of course, that Tony Snow and Bret Baier, who was question him, were talking about were the press reports out of Damascus reflecting the event today in which there was Bill Nelson, there, Democratic senator from Florida, sitting down in Damascus with Bashar Assad, the effective dictator there, and discussing with him what Nelson thinks is a political opening. An opening, by the way, that the Iraq Study Group seemed to think was present, as well.

Some thoughts on all this now from Bill Sammon, senior White House correspondent of the Washington Examiner' Mort Kondracke, executive editor of Roll Call; and Mara Liasson, national political correspondent of National Public Radio -- FOX NEWS contributors, all.

Well, what's the deal here? I mean, Senator Nelson has -- he's been there before, right -- Mort.

MORT KONDRACKE, ROLL CALL: He has been there before and he urged Bashar Assad to close the border to insurgents.

HUME: When?

KONDRACKE: I.

BILL SAMMON, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: `04.

KONDRACKE: Yeah, sometime a couple of years ago. And Bashar Assad did not do it -- so, he's gone back and.

HUME: Well, what does he -- what does he appear to believer here?

KONDRACKE: But the idea that the administration is going to tell senators -- he's a member of the Intelligence Committee -- where to go and -- we're not at war with Syria. If a member of Congress wants to go and check out a situation in a foreign country, even if the State Department suggests that he not do it, I do not see anything wrong with doing it. He's not -- he has no power to negotiate with Syria. He's trying to get the lay of the land so he's an informed senator. I mean, I do not think that senators should expect to just get their information only from the administration about what our policy for Syria is.

MARA LIASSON, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: He's not saying he worked out some kind of deal with Syria.

HUME: So, what is he saying was his.

LIASSON: He's saying that there was a crack open to negotiate and that he obviously agreed with the Iraq Study Group.

HUME: And who will do that negotiating?

LIASSON: Well, the administration would have to do the negotiating. He's not negotiating.

HUME: So it was a diplomatic mission?

LIASSON: Well, no, I think it was a fact-finding mission for him. He doesn't speak for the administration. He wasn't negotiating anything. It's his view that they should negotiate. And look, there's some more senators who are expected to go over there including Arlen Specter, who is a Republican and Christopher Dodd who's a Democrat.

HUME: So, what is the problem, if there is a problem? Why is Mort not right about this?

SAMMON: Well, this regime supports Hezbollah, it supports Hamas, it tries to destabilize the Lebanese government, it supports terrorism and it's not going to -- if it's trying to destabilize a fledgling Democracy like Lebanon, why would it turn around and help us stabilize another fledgling Democracy like Iraq?

And I agree with Mort that the guy has the right to go do it and the president shouldn't try to, you know, assert some sort of executive power grab and not let anybody else do it, but it does sends mixed messages. It does sent a message that we're divided. You've got the administration saying we're not good to talk to Syria and you've got Democratic senators freelancing and going over and talking.

And again, this is the guy that was there two years ago and was assured by Assad that he would close the border to terrorist and equipment and weapons and he got the same assurances this week. So, nothing's changed in two years. So, I'm not sure that the door has opened a crack at all.

KONDRACKE: Well, and Nelson, himself, said that he was taking a realistic view, that he didn't -- and he was not optimistic that this would lead -- necessarily lead to anything. This is.

HUME: So, what's the point?

KONDRACKE: The point is fact finding. I mean, you know, and Chris Dodd, in particular -- Chris Dodd wants to be president of the United States, I don't think he's going to make it, but you know, you don't want something who sticks around the House in Washington and doesn't get out there and find what's going on in the world and smell the streets in Damascus and see whether, you know, and look into the eye of the adversary and see what they're all about. I mean, I want these guys to do that. I think junkets are good and junkets to bad places and difficult places.

HUME: Are even better, huh?

KONDRACKE: Yeah, much better.

LIASSON: They're much better than the cushy places.

SAMMON: Well, there's plenty ways to burn (INAUDIBLE) foreign policy credentials if you're seeking the presidency than with -- other than meeting with dictators -- and in the process with underming the administration.

HUME: Well are there -- does it really undermine the administration?

LIASSON: That's the question I don't.

HUME: What do you think?

LIASSON: No, I don't think it undermines the ministration.

HUME: Well, does it send a confusing message to Assad?

LIASSON: Well, it depends on what he told him. I don't think he told him.

KONDRACKE: He told him -- he told -- he.

HUME: Does this guy, coming back and saying, as he apparently is saying, that there's now this opening there after what happened to him the last time when he got assurances that were never meant -- does that risk putting him in the position of looking like he's being used?

KONDRACKE: Yeah.

HUME: And making a fool of himself?

KONDRACKE: And we can laugh him off, all right, if he looks -- if he looks.

HUME: And Mort, you don't seem to be laughing at all, you seem to be rather excited about his trip and all the benefits we're going to get from it.

(CROSSTALK)

KONDRACKE: This is the question of executive versus legislative authority and I'm on the side of legislative wisdom here. And if they, you know, if he's wrong, he's wrong. Look, Jim Baker went much further in talking about this, and -- which, much higher visibility and said that there was this deal to be made and a flipping and all that kind of stuff...

HUME: Well, what about that?

KONDRACKE: Well, you know what my opinion on that is to send Jim Baker to Damascus as the negotiator empowered to see if he can reach that deal. If he can't.

HUME: Why do you want to do that? What you think -- because you want send him on a fool's errand?

KONDRACKE: No, but I want to see him try. He thinks -- look, if Jim Baker thinks that the Syrians can be flipped against Hezbollah and will become supporters of the government -- of the independence of Lebanon in return for the Golan Heights, and he can deliver that deal with the Israelis, more power to him. I don't think he can. I don't think it's a deal that can be cut.

LIASSON: Yeah, but what's the harm in trying?

SAMMON: Well, the problem is Baker's a diplomat, he thinks the problem can be solved diplomatically and not militarily. The reality is it has to be solved militarily not diplomatically.

HUME: Well, why not both?

SAMMON: Well yeah, I mean, you keep all tracks open, but Baker has actually said we cannot win it militarily and I think that's a fundamental disagreement with this president. This president thinks we have to win at militarily while you're keeping the diplomatic channels open and trying everything you can, sort of meeting with dictators who want to undermine us.

HUME: When we come back with our panel, we'll take a look at Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney's presidential ambitions and his chances in '08 and we'll tell you what he did today. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV MITT ROMNEY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: I have to admit that I don't think that Republican brand has changed very dramatically. I think we've been hurt by the fact that we've been fighting a war on terror and it has been disappointing, particularly over the last couple a years and that that was reflected in some of the voting results. But I do not think the people of this country are saying that we really want more government, we really want more government spending, we really want more liberal ideas put in place in Washington. I don't think that's what's happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: He is the ongoing governor of Massachusetts, he exploring a presidential bid and he would like everyone to know that Massachusetts or not, he is a conservative. And as of today, under Governor Romney's order, members of the state police in the state of Massachusetts will henceforth be empowered to arrest illegal aliens -- something a little new up there. Back with our panel on further -- for further thoughts on Mitt Romney and his campaign and his prospects.

KONDRACKE: Well, you know, Sam Nunn, former senator from Georgia, who was a hawk on all things that were foreign policy, when he got the presidential bug in 1991, he led the charge against the 1991 Gulf War, so I think Romney is having a little bit of Sam Nunn syndrome here. He used to be pro-choice. He is now avidly pro-life.

HUME: How long ago did he make that conversion?

KONDRACKE: Quite recently, as a matter of fact.

LIASSON: Well, he "evolved."

KONDRACKE: Yeah, he evolved. But it's been pretty recent and it was over -- his aides say it was all over the stem cell issue and the fact that you would create embryos and then destroy them and then he had a stroke of conscience.

Now, he was pretty strongly -- he lead the gay movement in that Massachusetts to believe that he was a supporter of theirs, that he believed in it the equal rights -- employment men rights amendment of the federal government, now he's against it.

HUME: Was he ever for marriage.

LIASSON: No.

KONDRACKE: He was never specifically for marriage, but it was never an issue. But he pretty clearly was in favor of something like Vermont-style civil unions, which he now denies that he was in favor. But he is in favor, to his credit, of domestic partnership provisions for hospital visitation and inheritance rights and stuff like that. So he's not as far right as you can get, but he's definitely tilting right for the purposes of running for president.

LIASSON: The problem for Romney is that he's been trying to provide -- make himself into the conservative alternative to John McCain. Right now the Republican field is in this strange situation where there's no natural conservative, someone who as a natural bond with the -- either the social issue right, there are no southern candidate. So, for people who are looking for an alternative to McCain, he was trying to present himself as that.

The news of the week is that in 1994, he wrote a letter to a gay group in Massachusetts where he said he'd be a stronger advocate for gays than Senator Edward Kennedy who he was running against a the time for senator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oops.

LIASSON: Oops. So, he has been -- the question is, is this all too transparent and too rbis and seems to calculated if conservatives in the Republican Party are looking for somebody who they feel is really with them, deep in his heart.

HUME: Well, what do you think, Bill, will conservatives buy this guy?

SAMMON: I think the abortion flip-flop is legitimate, it was a legitimate flip-flop. I'm not sure the gay thing.

HUME: A legitimate flip-flop.

SAMMON: I mean, he truly did change.

HUME: Then a legitimate transition.

(CROSSTALK)

LIASSON: It was like George H.W. Bush. Yeah. Yeah.

SAMMON: My point is of that I do not think the gay -- I'm not sure he has really truly even flip-flopped on the gay marriage thing. He said - - I read that letter that he wrote and he was making it sound like he supports gay people, like the supports all Americans. He supports their rights. But he didn't really say, you know, I support gay marriage or he didn't really make a promise that he has to now reverse like he did with abortion.

But the larger point is that, you're right, there isn't a natural conservative in the field. There is a Southerner, Mike Huckabee, governor of Arkansas.

HUME: And there's a possibility that Newt Gingrich, who is.

LIASSON: I'm talking about a.

SAMMON: There's Newt Gingrich. But here's the thing about -- OK, you can look at Romney, you can say, OK, he's either cynical or he's genuine, but on paper, he is more conservative on most of the key hot- button issues, including immigration. Today, he empowered the Boston cops to arrest.

HUME: State police.

SAMMON: Massachusetts cops. But the others, you know, McCain, Huckabee, Giuliani all of them favor the guest -- even Brownback -- favors the guest worker program. So it's a trade off.

LIASSON: You know, immigration is different. I think that immigration -- you can debate what's the true conservative position on immigration. I agree that the base of the party has a position on immigration, but in terms of these social issues that are so well defined about what the base of the party believes in, there, I think that Romney has been doing something that seems pretty transparent. Immigration is a debate inside the party. If Brownback is on the same side as McCain, I don't think that Ron really ride immigration to the.

SAMMON: What conservatives are going to be faced with is a trade- off. They're going to look at Romney and they're going to say, is really true or is he being you know, expedient? And then they're going to look at these other guys that favor the guest worker program and that's going to be a dilemma, so that's going to cut both ways among the people who vote in the Republican primaries.

KONDRACKE: There is a question of the merits, here. And we need labor. You know, we need these -- we need guest workers, for them to come in legally, beats by miles the idea.

HUME: Mort, you're getting all serious -- he's talking about issues here. We're trying to have a political discussion, Mort, don't be so serious.

(LAUGHTER)

KONDRACKE: Well, he certainly is playing to this right-wing, hardcore base of the party, which is poison for long-term best interests of the Republican Party.

LIASSON: And the business community, which is, last we checked, a pretty important part of the Republican Party.

(CROSSTALK)

HUME: You're talking about on immigration?

KONDRACKE: Yeah, on immigration.

LIASSON: And wait, don't forget the business community is an important part of the Republican Party coalition, too, and they clearly are on the other side. I think he had nowhere else to go, but to the right on immigration if he wanted to differentiate himself.

HUME: All right. Last quick question. We've discussed this before. I don't know if anything's changed, but is he -- will he be OK eventually, one way the other, with Evangelical Christians with his Mormonism?

LIASSON: I don't know. I'm waiting to find that out.

HUME: Mort, what do you think?

KONDRACKE: I think, I hope yes, and I think yes.

SAMMON: I think he will. When he starts talking about "I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior," that goes a long way towards convincing Evangelicals.

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