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September 20, 2006

Special Report Roundtable - September 20

FOX News Special Report With Brit Hume

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Yesterday the devil came here. Right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today, this table that I am now standing in front of.

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Occupation of countries, including Iraq, has continued for the last three years. Not a day goes by without hundreds of people getting killed in cold blood. The occupiers are incapable of establishing security in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: Well, that was a little contrast there between Hugo Chavez and Iranian leader Ahmadinejad. The "New York Post," the sister publication I hasten to add, of FOX NEWS, had a headline today, on -- this is what they said about Ahmadinejad's speech: "Cuckoo!" -- called it a mad rant. Inside the paper they referred to it as a man who is spreading his vial poison. One wonders what the "New York Post" will say tomorrow about Hugo Chavez.

Some thoughts on that from Fred Barnes, executive editor of the "Weekly Standard"; Mort Kondracke, executive editor for "Roll Call"; and Mara Liasson, national correspondent of National Public Radio, FOX NEWS contributors all.

Folks, what superlatives (ph) are left?

MORT KONDRACKE, "ROLL CALL": Well, Hugo Chavez wins the rabble- rouser (ph) award at the U.N. so far. I mean, he did -- he outrabble- roused Ahmadinejad...

HUME: Who actually, by some standards gave a fairly restrained speech.

KONDRACKE: Yeah.

HUME: Mad rant, notwithstanding.

KONDRACKE: Well, there was a lot of anti-imperialist talk in...

HUME: But it was an argument.

MARA LIASSON, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Yeah, it wasn't "cuckoo," actually.

KONDRACKE: (INAUDIBLE) talk in the speech. I mean, of the two of them, look, Chavez wants to succeed Fidel Castro as the revolutionary leader of Latin America and he's got oil, which Castro didn't have. Ahmadinejad, I'm not sure what the historical parallel for Ahmadinejad would be. It kind of scares me, because not only does Ahmadinejad have oil, but he also has a terrorist network and he's working on nuclear weapons. He is the far more dangerous of the two, but for one day Chavez scored higher on the demagogue meter than Ahmadinejad did.

LIASSON: I agree, on the theater -- on just the theatrics of it, certainly Hugo Chavez gets the award there, but look, I think the big story coming out of the U.N., other than the spectacle of the president standing at the same podium as his adversary from Iran is that the diplomacy to get Iran to stop its nuclear weapons program is going nowhere and there isn't an agreement on sanctions and Iran seems absolutely determined to go ahead. And now the U.S. appears to be kind of adjusting its terms to say that somehow these talks can go forward even if Iran doesn't suspend its nuclear enrichment program -- uranium enrichment program which was the, I thought, pretty hard criteria they had laid down before.

FRED BARNES, "WEEKLY STANDARD": When you look at that and you think geesh, I feel sorry for President Bush or any other leader has to demagogue -- these radical demagogues who -- you know, you saw Chavez cross himself, so I guess he thinks of himself as a Catholic and Ahmadinejad's a crazed Muslim and, yet, somehow in this world, these crazed radical demagogues get together, you know, they have some -- they signed some treaty the other day where they are going to, you know, share knowledge of car production and things like that. I don't think I am going to buy one of their cars.

But they -- I mean, these guys are complete demagogues and the notion, as a lot of people in the Untied States have said, is we have to deal one-on-one with Iran on the nuclear stuff. I mean, that means dealing with Ahmadinejad. How are you going to deal with that guy? I mean he is crazed. I mean, he's still talking at the U.N., which did he in his speech, about the holocaust not having existed. I mean, how do you deal with that?

KONDRACKE: They have an agenda that they -- both of them pressed the U.N. they said that the world -- that the structure of the U.N., as created at the end of World War II, is obsolete and we now have to get the U.N. Security Council -- Venezuela wants to be a Security Council member. But in addition to that they want to have the Security Council have representatives from the no-align group, from the Islamic -- World Islamic Conference, from the African Union and no vetoes.

So, the dispatch of troops, for example, peacekeeping forces around the world would be heavily influenced by them and, you know, we would not have a veto against whatever they wanted to do. And, you know, I don't think it's going to happen, but in any event, they do have international agenda and they are allies. They are allies in this.

BARNES: Yeah, they would make the U.N. more unimportant than it already is, and more weak and more feckless. I mean, look, you know, getting Venezuela on the Security Council? That's not.

HUME: What about Mara's point that when you get past all this, the hard reality for the Bush administration, is well Chavez may have stolen the demagogue award, as Mort suggests, that this diplomacy to try to bring Iran into line on this nuclear program isn't going anywhere. Is this diplomacy to be looked at as something that the administration really hoped to go somewhere or something it had to go through in order to -- and to give everybody all the time they needed in order to marshal support for something stronger than mere diplomacy?

BARNES: Yeah, and that was sanctions, but strong sanctions, which is what it would take. I know this is what Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice believes that strong sanction could say have an effect on the Iranians because Iran is not an isolated country. They want to have dealings and do have economic dealings and -- with other countries India, Italy, France, Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

LIASSON: And that's precisely the reason they can't get sanctions.

BARNES: And the sanctions could work, but they haven't gotten anywhere near sanctions.

HUME: Well, how is it proper to see this, Morts? Is it proper to see this as a process that is failing or a process that's going through the way diplomatic processes go?

KONDRACKE: I honestly don't know which is the case. What I've said before and I'll say again, it depends on the Europeans and Chirac's move toward endless negotiations is not a good sign. But if the Europeans were willing, independent of the Russians and the Chinese and the U.N., to put real economic bite on the Iranians, that could have an effect, maybe.

LIASSON: I think that's highly unlikely. I mean there are a lot of countries that do a lot of business with Iran.

HUME: you are saying is this is a doomed process.

LIASSON: Well, it doesn't look good right now is what I would say and the United States is different than all those other countries it doesn't do business with Iran. All those other countries do and it's hard to imagine them voluntarily, if you are not going to have a universal sanctions regime that they would voluntarily give it up.

KONDRACKE: It wouldn't take many of them because there are a few countries that have a lot of dealings with Iran -- Italy, France, India's one. Look, I agree we're not -- they're not lining up to support sanctions now, but it wouldn't take that many of them if they did.

KONDRACKE: Can I make one.

HUME: Ask quick.

KONDRACKE: .Facetious point. Chavez said that if all the people in the world were asked what they want, they would all say "Yankee go home." I don't think so, they'd say, can I have a visa?

HUME: When we come back with our panel, we'll talk about Republican senator and possible presidential candidate, George Allen and the hot water he got in. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEGGY FOX, WUSA REPORTER: You've been quoted as saying your mother is not Jewish, but it has been reported that her father, your grandfather Felix, whom you were given your middle name for was Jewish. Could you please tell us whether you are forebears include Jews and if so, at which point Jewish identity might have ended?

(CROWD BOOS)

SEN. GEORGE ALLEN (R), VIRGINIA: You know what? I'm glad you all have that -- I'm glad you have that reaction. You know what? Our first freedom in our country was? Freedom of religion, where people's rights are not enhanced nor diminished on account of their religious beliefs. Thomas Jefferson was the author of that. As we try to stand up free and just societies that's the first pillar of a free and just society. And to be getting into what religion my mother is, I don't think is relevant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: Well, that was George Allen's reaction to a somewhat unusual question from a Washington-area reporter debate here in the Washington suburbs, just the other day, Allen, of course himself, had been in trouble in his Senate race because he referred to one of his opponents campaign volunteers as a "mukaka," which was taken a racial slight for which he was apologized about 11 times, now.

But this race has drawn interest because Allen was thought to be someone on the way, perhaps, to good place in the presidential sweepstakes two years from now, after he won reelection. Now, he's in a race for reelection and this is one of the -- this is the latest twist in it, this question and the answer or the reaction to it and all of that. \

Where do we stand in this -- Mara.

LIASSON: Well, the race tightened and this was one that almost every handicapper input in the pretty -- the likely Republican column, now they -- a lot of them have downgraded it to the lean Republican and the race has closed. Jim Webb, who's really a novice candidate...

HUME: Tell us who he was.

LIASSON: Is he a war hero, former Navy secretary.

HUME: Under Reagan.

LIASSON: Under Reagan.

HUME: Former Republican.

LIASSON: Former Republican, writer of many novels with military themes and he was recruited by the Democrats as somebody who they thought could possibly make a good run against him. He has much less money than Allen, he's he not comfortable campaigning. He doesn't have that good old boy affect that Allen does, but the race is now within single digits, it's competive, and the Allen camp has made a lot of.

HUME: Is this -- this thing in the last few day -- this dust up with the reporter and the questions, is that helping Allen or not?

LIASSON: I don't think it helps him. I think what was interesting is he seemed to be really thrown off by the question. The question seems to be out of nowhere. I mean, what...

HUME: Yeah, was your mother Jewish and when did you stop being Jewish, it seemed to be the question.

LIASSON: The question she asked before I thought was legitimate. I mean, "mukaka" is considered to be a racial slur, that it refers to north people of North African decent and it's common in French speaking countries, his mother was a French speaking Tunisian, and -- but then she followed it up with this question about his Jewish ancestry. which apparently has been brought up before and that a Jewish magazine, the "Forward," has raised this question -- gee, his mother's family was a prominent Jewish family and he's always denied it, now one day later he comes out with a statement it turns out my mother's family was Jewish and I just found out about it. That seems a little bit hard to believe.

HUME: Who was it? Madeleine Albright and John Kerry had similar experiences.

LIASSON: I think it all just shows he's a little off balance, he was quick to anger, I think the mukaka episode hurt him greatly for this presidential prospect, somewhat less for the Senate, but this race is now competitive.

KONDRACKE: Yeah, look, this sounded like a gotcha outing question. As though there was something wrong with his being Jewish.

LIASSON: But he reacted that same way.

KONDRACKE: Well, and he -- he did, he reacted that same way.

LIASSON: Mystifying.

KONDRACKE: Insofar as.

HUME: So this hurts him more than helps him.

KONDRACKE: Well, I think so. I mean.

HUME: So, he doesn't look like a victim, he looks like a stumbler.

KONDRACKE: The crowd obviously was on his side, but he should have been ready for this question because the "Forward" had been raising this issue before. Well, he should have been ready.

BARNES: Please.

KONDRACKE: .he should -- and should be able to laugh at mukaka.

HUME: He denounced the question not relevant. Was the question relevant?

KONDRACKE: No, it's not -- I don't think it is relevant, terribly relevant, but the way he ultimately handled this thing saying yeah, my grandfather was Jewish, you know, is the way to have handled it right there.

LIASSON: At the time.

KONDRACKE: At the time, at the time, because he could a anticipated that it would come up.

HUME: Fred, your thoughts?

BARNES: Ah, Mort thinks that he ought to be ready to answer irrelevant questions and that's.

LIASSON: Well.

BARNES: Well, that's what mort said.

KONDRACKE: I said, and I'll say it again, I'll stick to it...

BARNES: And Mara, he doesn't need to you defend him.

(LAUGHTER)

KONDRACKE: Oh, god.

BARNES: But look, here's the problem for Allen. It's as simple as this, Allen as long as he is the focus of the campaign, and whether it's a weird question or not, he gives that strange answer, then that's going to hurt him and Webb can just sort of stand back and watch Allen be in trouble.

HUME: OK, he's in Virginia, you live until Virginia, will Allen win in your judgement?

BARNES: I think Allen will win, but you know who;s killing him in Virginia.

HUME: Got to go.

BARNES: The "Washington Post."

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