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May 22, 2006

Special Report Roundtable - May 22

FOX News Special Report With Brit Hume

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The terrorists did not lay down their arms after three elections in Iraq and they will continue to fight this new government. And we can expect the violence to continue. But something fundamental changed this weekend, the terrorists are now fighting a free and constitutional government. They are at war with the people of Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: Some analytical observations now from Juan Williams, senior correspondent of National Public Radio; Mara Liasson, a national political correspondent of National Public Radio and the syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer. Fox News contributors all.

Well the president is hailing this as a major development, a possible turning point. He now speaks of the United States as increasingly playing a supporting role in Iraq.

Juan, is he right about how big this is?

JUAN WILLIAMS, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Well what he -- the key to the argument in terms of the magnitude of this -- of the transition that we saw this weekend is that the argument can be made that anybody, insurgent or anyone else who has an interest in undermining the government of Iraq at the moment, is not undermining the United States or Britain or France, but undermining a legitimately elected government that's representative of the people of Iraq. And therefore the case can be made you're attacking the Iraqi people. And hopefully that will give a stronger base for this government to go about tamping down the violence from the insurgency.

MARA LIASSON, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: And it's not just terrorists, it's also sectarian violence, and that's one of the things that the new prime minister has to get a handle on. And he's decided at least to keep the Interior Ministry kind of under his own control for a while to see if he can do that.

But I think -- you know I think this is a big important step. They already had an elected government, they just had to fill the Cabinet posts and that had taken an awfully long time. And now it sounds like they've at least done that and let's see if this new Cabinet, this new government can a) provide some security for the Iraqi people and b) get them some basic services and that will go a long way to improving things.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: What's really interesting here is that this is an important milestone and it's the last one. I mean we have had these dates. We won accomplishments that we had chartered out three years ago and all of them have been met, some late, but all eventually. But this is it, there isn't any after this.

This is the government that will be in power for the next four years. It will be the government under which America leaves. And now, essentially, we're putting it in the hands of Iraqis. And we're going to hang around probably until the end of next year, but that's not going to happen a lot longer.

We're not going to leave entirely, but what's going to happen now is we're going to consolidate American troops in bases. We may keep a base or two or three indefinitely in the future to protect Iraq, to be a rapid deployment force, also to deter external enemies and also as a way for America to have a base from which to project the power in that region.

But the day-to-day stuff, that's going to end in a year, year and a half, and the Iraqis know it, which is why they all know they're going to hang together or they're going to hang separately.

HUME: Now, Senator Durbin -- if what you're saying is correct, Senator Durbin, Senator Reid saying today that it's time to announce the timetable for getting out of there.

KRAUTHAMMER: That's exactly the wrong thing to do. It is understood that the minute you announce a date everybody aims for a date. Everybody understands that this is the government that will take over. We're not going to make a firm date on a calendar.

What's happening is Iraq increases its strength, it tries to control its militias and we gradually hand over as we have been doing. But you don't want to set an artificial date because then the whole argument and the whole policy is around a date and that's the wrong way to go about it.

LIASSON: Look, you know last week Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, was asked could he guarantee that some significant amount of U.S. troops would be withdrawn soon? He said no. And today or yesterday you heard the new prime minister of Iraq saying he's pretty sure by the end of the year that Iraqi forces could control almost everything but not Baghdad and some of...

KRAUTHAMMER: Anbar.

LIASSON: ... Anbar Province. If that happens, certainly U.S. troops will start to be withdrawn, but not in the near term.

WILLIAMS: And the problem is that even in this new government you have these key positions that remain open. As you say, they're trying to hold them close to their vest. But the fact is they don't have anybody to put in who can truly represent the notion of a secure police force, much less military and have the confidence of all factions within Iraq. That is just a looming problem. Unless you can get the security under control, how can you deal with oil revenues or any of the other major problems that confront that new democracy?

HUME: What is your prediction, Juan, do you think this government will be able to function and work well or not?

WILLIAMS: If you looked -- if you -- you know I don't have a crystal ball, Brit, but if you look at what's going on right now, you'd say they still have to deal with factionalism and just hope. I mean, you know, given all the investments that Americans have made that things can settle down, but that's the best you can hope for at this point.

HUME: Your thoughts, Mara?

LIASSON: Yes, I think this government certainly has a better chance than the last one, which was roundly viewed as pretty incompetent.

KRAUTHAMMER: The best outcome is that it weans away parts of the Sunnis who are supporting the insurgency and it succeeds in taking over Iraq. Worst outcome, I think, is that Iraq ends up like a Colombia. It has a government, it has a society, it functions but it has a chronic insurgency and that could also happen. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would not be the shining success that we had hoped for.

HUME: What does it mean that they were able to get this far, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well,...

HUME: What does it tell us?

WILLIAMS: What it tells us, I think, is largely a function of U.S., even you know in honor of Tony Blair and his soon coming here and visit to Iraq just this weekend, the commitment by certain people to make it work. Gosh, you know you couldn't have asked for more of a commitment from the U.S. in terms of not only forces but super structure and all the rest. And I think that's what it tells us, the U.S. has made a strong commitment.

LIASSON: And maybe the U.S. has to face...

HUME: Does it tell us anything about the Iraqis?

LIASSON: Well it sounds like the Iraqis were -- are -- were willing at least to get the prime minister and that was the biggest hurdle. They were willing to compromise and start learning how to function in a democracy. But the American ambassador was extremely involved in the setting up of this government where he -- they had been hands on -- hands off in the past and maybe it suggests that the U.S. has to be extremely involved for the foreseeable future.

HUME: One sense is that that large embassy over there will be a busy place and just as large for a long time.

KRAUTHAMMER: But let's remember it's a very young democracy, but it's the most democratic country in the entire Arab world.

HUME: When we come back with our panel, we'll discuss the intersection of politics and the groves of academia. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUME: Back with our panel.

Up in Boston today at the commencement exercises at Boston College there was this scene, graduates standing to protest the appearance there, you see her, Condoleezza Rice, who not only received an honorary degree, which is what these graduates who were standing with their backs to her objected to, but also Condoleezza Rice delivered -- there's a sign, BC honors lies and torture, it said. That was later taken down. She went ahead and made her speech. She received her honorary degree.

Earlier, at an earlier graduation exercise down in New York City at The New School, this was Senator John McCain as he delivered the address there on Friday. A similar scene as graduates stood up, some raising signs, turned their back to him. Some heckled him. Some applauded the heckling.

In the meantime, another scene in Boston, at -- as the Kennedy Library bestowed an honor on Congressman John Murtha, the prominent Democratic Party war critic, for as the -- this year's -- winner of this year's profile in courage award.

Well, panel, what is all -- what do these protests say about the current state of our politics and their academic life, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well you'd say that we have a very left wing academy in the country. I suppose you could say, especially if you look at The New School, that's certainly their history. And you can understand why young people, as one woman actually threw away her remarks, the student speaking, and said you know this is not in keeping with the traditions of this school to have Senator McCain there because he is a supporter of the war. And that's what it's come down to, it's all about the war.

I thought Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, said something very telling though before -- in response -- you know reporters questioning her about the protest. She said, well, protest is good. Everybody has the right to protest. And these young people should realize that people now in Iraq have the right to protest, the right they did not have under Saddam Hussein. So that was her retort. And I thought it was pretty powerful.

LIASSON: Yes. I don't know if this is that much different than the protests you got at commencement addresses during the Vietnam War. I mean Harold Brown, who was the defense secretary at the time, spoke at Brown University and people turned their back on him. It was quiet. It was silent. It was -- it looked like at Boston College it was respectful. They didn't throw things at her. I mean it was a protest and she gave her speech.

John McCain, I think, is -- each one of these is different. The protests against John McCain were about his stand on the war. But a lot of those signs said you're -- our commencement is not your platform. It was about the fact that he's running for the presidency. And a lot of the students at The New School didn't like the fact that he had gone to Liberty University, which is Jerry Falwell's university, the week before and gave a very, very similar speech.

The interesting thing for John McCain is I think that every time he gets booed or heckled by a student at a university like The New School, he probably gets one more vote in the Republican primary. So I'm sure he didn't mind that one bit.

HUME: He better hope it's more than just one at a time.

LIASSON: Well, right, not one at a time. But the point is this is a great thing for him, because he, unlike the other people we're talking about today, is actually running for something for the Republican nomination for president.

KRAUTHAMMER: But it tells us a lot about the state of the American academy when you get Bob Kerrey, who is the president of that university, introduced McCain, a Vietnam War hero, who was heckled by his own students, they're called a war criminal.

Then you get McCain who himself is a war hero who supports the war but speaks often and eloquently about allowing dissent, honoring the dissent on the war and other issues. When a man like McCain is greeted with the most uncivil heckling and protests who cannot even get a fair hearing, you get a sense of the tenured radicals who are in academia. I mean, look, justice here...

HUME: Well, this is mostly students, although faculty were involved.

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, you know, and the students who acted in this way are the disciples who will inherit the posts of the tenured radicals.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know I must say, Charles,...

KRAUTHAMMER: But one thing, a busy year in which a middle of the road, former Clinton treasury secretary was unable to remain as the president of Harvard in the face of a faculty which is way out left. And it tells you why academia has become irrelevant in American politics.

It was important in Kennedy's time. He brought in George Bundy and Schlesinger and others. Culbert (ph) and others wrote influential text. Nobody cares about the academy now. All of the serious political stuff is done intellectually in think tanks where you have people of the middle and the right who would never be accepted in universities who know university is way out of the mainstream. And you saw it on display in the way that an honorable centrist like McCain was greeted.

WILLIAMS: Well I don't know if he's -- I mean clearly on the war he's a supporter. And I think, as I said before, this is about the war. But if you stop and think for a second, the campuses have been incredibly quiet, given the amount of dissent and the fact that this is an unpopular war. I think the campuses have been -- I mean, to my mind, I would make the case it's hypocritical. These kids aren't protesting because they don't have to worry about a draft, so they don't have anything, any personal stake.

HUME: So you'd like it -- your view is that given the unpopularity of the war, there ought to be more campus protests?

WILLIAMS: No, but at least they would be voices. It would be a -- it would be -- the campuses should be a place of intellectual fervor, Brit. People should be discussing and it should be at the forefront. Instead, it's been relatively quiet on the key issue of our time.

LIASSON: And that's why there will never be a draft again.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

KRAUTHAMMER: It's quiet because it's almost unanimous. I mean it's not as if you don't have dissent, but the supporters of the war, a small minority, and don't get heard.

LIASSON: No, I don't think that's why, not because it's unanimous...

(CROSSTALK)

LIASSON: ... because it doesn't touch them. It doesn't touch their lives.

KRAUTHAMMER: To the extent that the issue is discussed, it's a very left wing place as we see in the way that it's discussed. And in the way that people like Summers and McCain and others are treated.

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