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April 25, 2006

Special Report Roundtable - April 25

FOX News Special Report With Brit Hume

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The FDC and the attorney general are contacting 50 state attorney generals to offer technical assistance to urge them to investigate possible illegal price manipulation within their jurisdictions. In other words, this administration is not going to tolerate, uh, manipulation.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: And to listen to the president, you'd think that it's the local gas station that's the problem. We all know it's the big oil companies who are causing these massive price increases that go way beyond what supply and demand would merit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Analytical observations on all this now from Fred Barnes, executive editor of the "Weekly Standard"; Morton Kondracke, executive editor of "Role Call"; and Mara Liasson, national political correspondent of "National Public Radio"; FOX News contributors, each and every one.

Is there any reason for any of us to take anything that anybody on any side of these issues, among these political figures, is saying seriously?

MORT KONDRACKE, "ROLL CALL": Well, I don't think the president thinks that there is price gouging involved here.

MARA LIASSON, "NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO": Not going to tolerate it.

KONDRACKE: But is he not going to tolerate it. This is covering himself against democratic charges.

HUME: Well, Morton, you're not talking about petroleum economics. What do you think?

KONDRACKE: Look what I really think about all this is that both parties -- the public ought to be disgusted with the performance of both parties in this. The democrats blocked any kind of energy -- long-term energy plan because they were so wetted to the holiness of Anwar that they filibustered again and again and again to block any kind of a energy bill.

Now, on the other hand, President Bush is very late discovering that we're addicted to oil. I mean, his original energy plans were very oil and gas heavy. Now he's he for hybrids, now he's for hydrogen and biomass and all that kind of stuff. You could have put, theoretically -- put together a bill, a long time ago. He's going to get the blame for this. The democrats aren't going to get the blame for this. They deserve it, but they are not going to get it.

LIASSON: Well, if that's how it works, if you're the president and the your party controls Congress and you're presiding over a period of bad economy or gas price rises and voters are in the mood to blame somebody they will probably blame the incumbents. Look, this is a ritual whenever this happens politicians in Washington pretend that they can do something about it and then they argue about whose fault it is. I don't think -- the president knows that the FTC and various other investigative bodies have looked into this over and over again and not found that there's any manipulation, it's the market. What I do think was the best thing today is when he said that tax breaks for oil companies should be revoked. Now, that, in certain republican circles is a tax hike and I never thought we'd hear the president say that.

FRED BARNES, "WEEKLY STANDARD": Yeah. Although that -- you know, that didn't really say much one way or the other. Look, you know, Jimmy Carter could have given this speech today. It was that bad. Jimmy Carter could have given...

HUME: You mean the Bush speech or the...

BARNES: The Bush speech. And actually I think Jimmy Carter did give that speech or something quite similar to it. I mean, when he says the "first thing," he could used that phrase, "first thing," is to make sure there's no manipulation. Is the first thing to do with something there's no evidence is going on? I mean, look...

HUME: Well, the evidence is...

BARNES: The evidence is that demand has quadrupled in the last 40 years -- quadrupled. And supply hasn't kept up. I mean, it's pretty obvious. I mean, this will tell you a little about the audience the president was talking to today when he gets around and says "I also support biodiesel fuel" and in the transcript "applause." They're all whipped up about biodiesel. The other thing about the oil companies is, they do not have -- they're not leading the lists of industries with high profit margins. The pharmaceutical industry, the banking industry, the insurance industry.

HUME: Broadly speaking or recent years?

BARNES: No in, like last quarter, or the last quarter of 2005, for instance, they were -- the pharmaceutical industry and the banking industry and the insurance industry and the software industry all have much larger profit margins than the oil industry. What the oil industry has is high volume. They really have high volume. This was truly a disappointing speech by the president. When he wants to get rid of boutique fuels and all these obligations, he calls for a task force. I mean, do something. There's a lot you can do and...

HUME: A lot you can do to effect short-term energy prices?

BARNES: Well no. There's not much you can do there. I mean look, they're stuck with this. But they really have to do some things to get rid of production. Now look, who is heavily responsible here, Mort likes to blame democrats and republicans, but that's -- I mean, that doesn't get you anywhere. The truth is the environmental lobbyist had a huge impact. They've opposed all the efforts by the oil industry to expand refineries, now fortunately they have been able to expand a few of them, maybe a dozen over the years, but not that many. We can't drill oil in Anwar but we can't drill oil off the Atlantic coast, pacific coast, off the east of the Gulf of Mexico. All places that are rich in oil supplies, and we can't drill there. This is the environmental lobby that has stopped that.

KONDRACKE: Just a second.

BARNES: They want to eliminate the oil industry.

KONDRACKE: Offshore drilling doesn't happen off Florida, not because of the environmental lobbyist.

BARNES: Yes it does.

KONDRACKE: Because of Jeb Bush.

HUME: Are you telling me the environmental lobby is not (INAUDIBLE) opposed?

KONDRACKE: No, of course it would scream bloody murder, but it's also a NIMBY problem everywhere in the country. Not in my backyard. Not.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: That's true.

HUME: I know NIMBY means that's an environmental concern.

LIASSON: No.

KONDRACKE: It's not just an environmental concern, it's a tourism concern and all that.

LIASSON: Yes.

BARNES: And the problem about this tax break Mara made a big deal out of. The oil industry probably reinvests more than any other industry in America. I mean, the stuff I've read Chevron reinvested.

LIASSON: Oh come on, when this republican president calls for getting rid of tax breaks you know that he's scared.

HUME: Well, maybe scared.

BARNES: Well, the whole speech he was scared.

HUME: Well, isn't it always the case though, that what the -- the oil industry should find the current prices sufficient to be a motivator for exploration and reinvestment?

BARNES: They're already doing that.

KONDRACKE: Yeah, well.

BARNES: They have done that like crazy.

KONDRACKE: Look, there is a do it -- a do it-all policy is what ought to be done. There ought to be a bipartisan agreement, yeah, to do conservation, to do alternatives, to do more drilling, to do everything we need to do to eliminate our dependency on foreign oil and in the long run oil. And it can be done.

HUME: Relaxation of environmental standards?

KONDRACKE: Yeah, that too.

HUME: When we come back with our panel, the CIA officer who was fired last week denies leaking classified information about secret U.S. prisons for terror suspects. That's next with the "All-Stars."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER MILLERWISE DYCK, CIP PUBLIC AFFAIRS DIRECTOR: The employee who was terminated knowingly and willfully discussed classified information with reporters. That is per this officer's own admission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: And that was said today by the spokesperson for -- or yesterday, excuse me, why by the spokesperson for the CIA, and that directly responds, as it happens, to what was said by her lawyer, the CIA - - the fired CIA employee, Mary McCarthy's lawyer who denied not only that she leaked the story to the "Washington Post" about the secret detention facilities the CIA was maintaining for terror suspects, but also that she had leaked any classified information. The only thing that was not denied, though not admitted by the lawyer, one Ty Cobb, fine fellow from all we know, there he is, now representing her was, that she was -- that she had had unauthorized discussions or contacts with the news media. So, where does that leave this case and what are we to make of this?

KONDRACKE: I think, you know, this is like after an automobile accident where you ram the back of somebody's car, you say, you know, you never admit guilt. I think she clearly got fired. The CIA Seems to be totally confident that she admitted that she had leaked classified information.

HUME: this after the agency says she failed a polygraph test?

KONDRACKE: Right. And now she is, you know, three days later she's denying it through her lawyer. It looks as though she's covering her tracks and she is trying to protect herself against a media onslaught and against possible criminal activity -- criminal charges which it's going to be difficult to prove, but none the less, if you were under the care of a lawyer, your lawyer's first advise to you would be don't admit anything, and I that's what I think she's doing.

LIASSON: Well yeah, but she -- look, the CIA says that she admitted having these unauthorized contacts with reporters, including Dana Priest.

HUME: And discussed classified information.

LIASSON: And that she discussed classified information. What the CIA has not said whether she discussed the classified information that there were -- about the secret prisons. That's what we don't know.

HUME: Well, the CIA has never yet -- has yet to acknowledge that such facilities existed.

LIASSON: That's true. But, what this -- what we want to know who leaked that piece of information to Dana Priest and that's at issue here.

BARNES: What is this media onslaught that you are talking about? I think what she faces is the media carrying her around as a hero on a (inaudible) chair. That's what -- they're not going to -- onslaught is not going to be a mean one. Look, the truth is there is a -- an anti-Bush triangle right here in Washington of people from the National Security Council who've left like Rand Beers who left under President Bush and became the foreign policy expert...

HUME: And for whom she worked when she was in the White House.

BARNES: Right, and she's a friend of and he defended her and then you have the rogue group -- the anti-Bush group at the CIA that leaks stuff all the time. And then you -- so you have that, you have democrats and you have the press. And it's a triangle that has allowed an incredible amount of information to come out, classified information that's been harmful to the national security. We have the NSA eavesdropping stuff that has come out. The prisons -- at somewhere we've had the story that came out about the transportation of prisoners by a -- an airline that worked for the CIA. All kinds of stuff like that and it's all aimed to hurt the Bush administration because these people disagree with the policies of the Bush administration. Unfortunately, they were not elected, the president was.

LIASSON: But you know, without admitting the existence of these secret prisons publicly or officially, there are plenty of ways that the CIA could communicate to the press that she was the one who leaked the story of the secret prisons and they haven't done that.

BARNES: Well, that's a small point, though. I mean the point is there is this group.

LIASSON: What about secret prisons? That's a big point.

BARNES: Whether she did it -- we know it was leaked. Whether she did it or not really doesn't make any difference. Presumably the CIA taped the interview with her or there were others in at room, as there are. You know, you would do go to the witnesses to a collision, that Mort was talking about, others were there too. So, we will know with a pretty good certainty whether she admitted to these things or not.

KONDRACKE: One other point here that lots of people in the media and also the democrats are declaring her a whistleblower, or people like her a whistleblower, as though dumping classified information, which may help the enemy, especially in this NSA spying case. I mean, I think that's the most egregious leak that I've seen in years.

LIASSON: That still.

KONDRACKE: Yeah, somebody ought to go jail for leaking that. But, you know, this isn't whistleblowing. This is disclosure of national secrets, it's like somebody, you know, publishing the fact that we've broken the Japanese code. I mean, people would go to jail for that, be tried for treason. Now, I don't think there's treason in this case, necessarily, that they're intentionally trying to aid and comfort the enemy but, boy, it's serious and it's lawbreaking and some democrats, Jane Harmon on "FOX News Sunday" was trying to draw equivalence between this kind of leaking of classified information and disclosure by an authorized authority, like the White House, of classified information to defend its case. I mean, the president is the classifier; he is legally entitled to declassify whatever he wants. People like Mary McCarthy, if she did this, are not authorized to do it and it's illegal.

BARNES: No they're not and their aim is completely different. The president's aim is to promote the national security. Her aim, if she did it, or others who have leaked from this group, are designed to undermine the national security policies of the Bush administration, that's their goal.

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